Brimsdown-The last grand project.

Tell us about your layout, where you put it, how you built it, how you operate it.
Tony Wilkins
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Brimsdown-The last grand project.

Postby Tony Wilkins » Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:09 am

Spurred on by some of the other recent postings, I thought I would share some of my experiences and progress with my magnum opus Brimsdown. This has been mentioned in passing in a few other threads such as the NAG area groups reports. I thought it was high time I collected all the pictures together under it's own topic for the record. As an opener here is a picture of the centre fan for the storage sidings taken by Ken Kirk at a NAG meeting back in March last year.
Tony.
Brimsdown fiddle yard ladder 2.JPG


Question. How do I turn the image round as it displays correctly if you click on it?

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Le Corbusier
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Re: Brimsdown-The last grand project.

Postby Le Corbusier » Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:35 am

Tony,

I slightly cropped it and re-loaded and it seems fine .... a mystery ;)
Brimsdown fiddle yard ladder 2.jpg
Tim Lee

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Colin Parks
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Re: Brimsdown-The last grand project.

Postby Colin Parks » Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:20 pm

Tony Wilkins wrote:Spurred on by some of the other recent postings, I thought I would share some of my experiences and progress with my magnum opus Brimsdown. This has been mentioned in passing in a few other threads such as the NAG area groups reports. I thought it was high time I collected all the pictures together under it's own topic for the record. As an opener here is a picture of the centre fan for the storage sidings taken by Ken Kirk at a NAG meeting back in March last year.
Tony.
Brimsdown fiddle yard ladder 2.JPG

Question. How do I turn the image round as it displays correctly if you click on it?


Hi Tony,

That is a quite spectacular example of trackwork! The fiddle yard must be enormous. It would be good to see how far you have progressed since last year.

All the best,

Colin

JFS
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Re: Brimsdown-The last grand project.

Postby JFS » Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:42 pm

Tony Wilkins wrote:Spurred on by some of the other recent postings, I thought I would share some of my experiences and progress with my magnum opus Brimsdown.


Enough teasing Tony! Show us the track plan!

Having seen this track in the flesh, I can confirm that it is even better than it looks in the photos.

Best wishes,

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Colin Parks
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Re: Brimsdown-The last grand project.

Postby Colin Parks » Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:23 pm

Not including the section leaning against the wall, the point formation shown so far must be around 10 ft long!

Tony Wilkins
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Re: Brimsdown-The last grand project.

Postby Tony Wilkins » Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:41 pm

JFS wrote:
Tony Wilkins wrote:Spurred on by some of the other recent postings, I thought I would share some of my experiences and progress with my magnum opus Brimsdown.


Enough teasing Tony! Show us the track plan!

Having seen this track in the flesh, I can confirm that it is even better than it looks in the photos.

Best wishes,

Hi Howard.
You are jumping ahead a bit, but I can understand why you are asking.
Bit difficult to post without taking a picture of the current printout, I will see if I can take one with the background map visible as this gives a clearer picture of the design, but I have a photo Ken took about a year ago at one of the NAG meetings which shows the track plan as it then was (there have been several mods since) and gives a good idea of the scope of the thing. I shall probably cover the Templot side of things on the Templot forum where box files etc can be posted.
Brimsdown fiddle yard Old Templot plan.JPG

If you click on the picture, you can enlarge it to see the track plan in more detail.
Storage sidings at the bottom obviously. The up and down yards are staggered to maximise the number of roads within the 2' width. I am not a fan of stacking multiple trains on one road. Some roads will be bidirectional.
I will try to get a better picture of how it is now and yes Colin that section is 10 feet long. The two long boards are 4' long to match the 4' x 2' baseboards.
The points are designed to fit exactly 4 per 4' board. How I did this I shall try to explain in due course.
The building is 14' x 34' but the internal space is more like 13' x 32.5' due to the wall thickness. I would ideally have liked 45' but my wife wanted some garden left so one has to compromise.
I need to take some more pictures of the most recent track, but basically, but for two curved turnouts EDIT: Now one: (which will be done by the end of the week) all the pointwork below the horizontal axis is built as are a fair proportion of the scenic ones.
Regards
Tony.
Last edited by Tony Wilkins on Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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kelly
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Re: Brimsdown-The last grand project.

Postby kelly » Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:12 am

Great work Tony. Look forward to seeing further developments.
DEMU UPDate Editor
DEMU
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TonyMont
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Re: Brimsdown-The last grand project.

Postby TonyMont » Wed Jan 24, 2018 1:23 pm

Hi Tony,

More power to your elbow, or should that be rivetting press. Its good to see another large project, well done.

Regards, Tony.

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Martin Wynne
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Re: Brimsdown-The last grand project.

Postby Martin Wynne » Wed Jan 24, 2018 1:39 pm

+1

p.s. Tony, .box files can be posted on here.
40 years developing Templot. And counting ...

Tony Wilkins
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Re: Brimsdown-The last grand project.

Postby Tony Wilkins » Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:55 pm

All in good time Martin, all in good time.
You do of course need Templot to view them.
Regards
Tony.

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Martin Wynne
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Re: Brimsdown-The last grand project.

Postby Martin Wynne » Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:33 pm

Tony Wilkins wrote:All in good time Martin, all in good time.

Not rushing you Tony. Image

Just clarifying the position -- you mentioned swapping to Templot Club in order to be able to post them.

cheers,

Martin.
40 years developing Templot. And counting ...

Tony Wilkins
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Re: Brimsdown-The last grand project.

Postby Tony Wilkins » Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:56 pm

Ah! The penny drops. You mean I can post them as an attachment, I thought only pictures would work on here.
Forums arn't my field of expertise, although you had probably gathered that already.

Here is a better view of the end turnouts of the ladder.
Turnouts.JPG


The turnouts pictured above require crossing vees in this case 1:7.
I batch built 18 for the ladder.

Vees.JPG

There is though rather more to it than this. The exit roads are curved through the crossing to form a final exit angle of 1:6.19. This gives a repeat of 1220m every fourth turnout with a track spacing of 49.5mm.
Regards
Tony.

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Paul Townsend
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Re: Brimsdown-The last grand project.

Postby Paul Townsend » Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:50 am

I remain a fan of soldered Brook-Smith track.
Can you please show us a dimensioned sketch of your slide chairs, they look better than anything I have done?

billbedford
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Re: Brimsdown-The last grand project.

Postby billbedford » Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:04 am

Paul Townsend wrote:I remain a fan of soldered Brook-Smith track.
Can you please show us a dimensioned sketch of your slide chairs, they look better than anything I have done?


You can buy them from Eileen's - Point and Slide Chairs
Bill Bedford
Mousa Models
http://www.mousa.biz

Tony Wilkins
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Re: Brimsdown-The last grand project.

Postby Tony Wilkins » Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:10 pm

Thanks Bill.
I used these for all the storage yard turnouts, but I use the Exactoscale cast brass slide chairs for the scenic trackwork although they cost an arm and a leg now.
Xover 1.JPG

A D-9 crossover. This is the first item of pointwork I built for Brimsdown back in November 2009 as a test piece to see how the then new Hi Ni rail compared to the traditional Nickel Silver rail. It stayed tarnish free for considerably longer so decided that was the way to go.
Xover 2.JPG

Xover 3.JPG

Tony.

Tony Wilkins
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Re: Brimsdown-The last grand project.

Postby Tony Wilkins » Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:22 pm

TonyMont wrote:Hi Tony,

More power to your elbow, or should that be rivetting press. Its good to see another large project, well done.

Regards, Tony.

Hi Tony.
Thanks.
With all the trackwork I have done, it is a wonder I don't have RSI.
This is the by-product.
DSCF0427.JPG

Tony.

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Colin Parks
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Re: Brimsdown-The last grand project.

Postby Colin Parks » Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:33 pm

Hi Tony,

That is some test piece and provides a useful comparison between Hi Ni and regular bullhead rail. Obviously, the brass slide chairs are necessary for control of the gauge through the switches on such a long and curved formation, but how are they fixed to the timbers?

Another enquiry: On the crossover, am I right in thinking that the insulation gaps between the two turnouts are situated at the check rail positions?


All the best,

Colin

Tony Wilkins
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Re: Brimsdown-The last grand project.

Postby Tony Wilkins » Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:11 pm

Colin Parks wrote:Hi Tony,

That is some test piece and provides a useful comparison between Hi Ni and regular bullhead rail. Obviously, the brass slide chairs are necessary for control of the gauge through the switches on such a long and curved formation, but how are they fixed to the timbers?

Another enquiry: On the crossover, am I right in thinking that the insulation gaps between the two turnouts are situated at the check rail positions?


All the best,

Colin

Hi Colin.
The rail is soldered to the rivets as elsewhere. The slide chairs are then split with a piercing saw and the underside filed out to clear the rivet head. The two halves are then soldered each side of the rail. It is important to get the rivets as central as possible in this area.

Correct. The rail joints on the real thing were part way down behind the check rail so had to be moved to the check rail end to avoid being shorted out by the check rail.
Regards
Tony.

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Paul Townsend
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Re: Brimsdown-The last grand project.

Postby Paul Townsend » Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:14 am

Tony Wilkins wrote:
Colin Parks wrote:Hi Tony,

Obviously, the brass slide chairs are necessary for control of the gauge through the switches on such a long and curved formation,

Colin

Er, I don't think so.
They do nothing for gauge but a lot for keeping blades at the correct minimum height.
I expect maximum height will be controlled by the method that Tony uses to attach his blades to the TOU.
I believe blade height control is a bigger issue for bullhead rail than for your flat bottom stuff?

Its harder still for Broad Gauge Bridge Rail advocates due to the fine section in vertical plane.

I use the original P4 Society/Studiolith design concept for my bullhead.

Wow Tony, your fiddle yard track looks better than my scenic area track. I thought that after 40 years practice I was OK at track-building AND I won a prize for it yonks ago! Thanks for sharing.

Tony Wilkins
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Re: Brimsdown-The last grand project.

Postby Tony Wilkins » Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:32 pm

Hi Paul.
You are quite correct of course. The stock rails position is controlled by the solder joints to the rivets. The slide chairs are largely cosmetic, but do help to control the height of the switch blades when open. Once fitted there is usually excess solder to remove from the inside corner of the slide chair rail interface and it is important to make sure this is thoroughly removed or the switch rail will not close tight against the stock rail. Lightly rounding the bottom edge of the back of the switch rail also helps here. Make sure that the top of the rivet is not standing proud of the surface of the slide chair or the switch blade will catch on it. Another thing to look out for. See the third picture of the switch area of my D-9 crossover. Note how the top level of the switch blade falls toward the tip to ensure a smooth take up of the wheel tread.

A milestone was reached today. The last turnout for the storage yard area was completed a C-12. There is though still much plain track to build.
Finish.JPG

Regards
Tony.
Last edited by Tony Wilkins on Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Le Corbusier
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Re: Brimsdown-The last grand project.

Postby Le Corbusier » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:23 am

Tony,

Could I ask a question about the heel arrangement on the switch. Is the heel and those sleeper positions forward of the heel soldered at the rivet with the movement of the blade being accommodated by the flex in the rail?

Or is there another method of fixing that is stronger than a rivet/rail solder joint?

Tim
Tim Lee

Tony Wilkins
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Re: Brimsdown-The last grand project.

Postby Tony Wilkins » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:54 pm

Le Corbusier wrote:Tony,

Could I ask a question about the heel arrangement on the switch. Is the heel and those sleeper positions forward of the heel soldered at the rivet with the movement of the blade being accommodated by the flex in the rail?
Tim


Hi Tim. That is indeed the case. I have always made my switches that way barring a few early experiments with short straight cut switches for an industrial turnout. That is when I discovered that using the rivet as the pivot did not work. Soldered joints can fail due to mechanical stress, but if the blade is long enough few problems are likely to be encountered. I generally make the switch blade and closure rail one piece with the electrical gap near the crossing. Bear in mind that in addition to the slide chairs, there should also be two block chairs that allow movement before the fixed block chairs are reached.
With so many turnouts to construct for the storage yard, I hit the simplify button. I still wanted the appearance of the ply and rivet track, but it will not be stained, ballasted or chaired as the scenic area will, so some short cuts were incorporated. Bill Bedford's etched slide chairs are used for both the slide and block chair positions. The next two timbers use larger 2.5mm head rivets (EM society) to allow the solder to bridge the Switch and Stock rail and provide electrical continuity plus extra strength.
DSCF0446.JPG

DSCF0470.JPG

Not terribly neat perhaps, but effective.
Regards
Tony.

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Le Corbusier
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Re: Brimsdown-The last grand project.

Postby Le Corbusier » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:16 pm

Thanks Tony for the explanation.

Strange and confusing in equal measure. I would have thought that a pivoting rivet because of the movement would have been under less stress than the last of the soldered rivets and therefore that this would have been even more likely to fail ... followed by the next etc ... but this self evidently is not the case.

Curiouser and curiouser said Alice!

It does beg the question ... is there any point in trying to incorporate rotation at the heel at all, even if you do have separate switch and closure rails?

I would be interested in your thoughts.

Tim
Tim Lee

Tony Wilkins
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Re: Brimsdown-The last grand project.

Postby Tony Wilkins » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:27 pm

Now for some pictures of the more complex track units for the Brimsdown storage sidings. Two different types of scissors crossover and a pair of double slips. Enjoy.
Scissors 1.JPG

Scissors 2.JPG

This design was necessitated by the restricted length due to adjacent pointwork. They are B-7s.

Scissors 3.JPG

Scissors 4.JPG

A regular C-10 scissors.

DS 1.JPG

DS 2.JPG

1 in 7 double slips. The wonky flexi track is only loosely held at the moment.
The hand written numbers and letters are the crossing angles and switch types.
As usual, click on the pictures for a better view.
Tony.

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Colin Parks
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Re: Brimsdown-The last grand project.

Postby Colin Parks » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:53 pm

Tony Wilkins wrote:
Colin Parks wrote:Hi Tony,

That is some test piece and provides a useful comparison between Hi Ni and regular bullhead rail. Obviously, the brass slide chairs are necessary for control of the gauge through the switches on such a long and curved formation, but how are they fixed to the timbers?

Another enquiry: On the crossover, am I right in thinking that the insulation gaps between the two turnouts are situated at the check rail positions?


All the best,

Colin

Hi Colin.
The rail is soldered to the rivets as elsewhere. The slide chairs are then split with a piercing saw and the underside filed out to clear the rivet head. The two halves are then soldered each side of the rail. It is important to get the rivets as central as possible in this area.

Correct. The rail joints on the real thing were part way down behind the check rail so had to be moved to the check rail end to avoid being shorted out by the check rail.
Regards
Tony.


Hi Tony,
Thanks for the clarification re. the brass slide chairs. If the brass components are so expensive (and only cosmetic (?), could you not use plastic slide chairs instead? Your latest pictures of track formations are really inspiring.

All the best,

Colin


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