Construction of a Test Track

[JFS]

I use brass lace making pins for droppers...

I too use these BUT I would sound a note of caution - you have to really know what you are doing regarding the soldering because it is very difficult to make a good soldered joint in these circumstances. Worse, the domed head of the pin is the worst possible shape to make a decent soldered joint because the contact area is infinitely small. Worse still, you can't mechanically "test" the result to check for a dry-joint.

The precautions I took to avoid this were these:-

0. At all the critical places (crossings, switches etc) the pin is soldered to the assembly from above before fitting the rail
1. file the head of the pin flat to ensure a decent area of contact
2. ONLY use silver bearing solder (179 deg.) the flow characteristics of "ordinary" 60 tin/40 lead 188 deg solder are absolutely rubbish and the joint strength is relatively poor, whilst bronze solders (so called "lead-free") need such high temperatures that the joint takes half an hour to cool during which time, movement and resultant crystaline dry-joint is unavaoidable.
3. Clean both surfaces very thoroughly.
4. Use an liquid phosphoric acid (minimum 6%) flux sparingly. All the residue will boil-off minimising the risk of verdigris forming subsequently.
5. Don't just "hang" the wire off the bottom - use a short and very flexible "tail" to a terminal fixed to the base board VERY close to the dropper.
6. Always remove the rail after soldering to test for a dry joint before re-inserting the pin in the hole.

Also:-
1. Don't even think about using this method for steel rail...
2. Stainless Steel rail needs a different specialist flux.

Glad to here you have had no failures to date Phil - I cannot claim the same; not by a long chalk.

There may be people out there thinking that Colin's method is a bit OTT - I am NOT one of them!!!

Just on a wider point - and absolutely not looking at yourself here Phil - I am amazed just how many modellers seem to know nothing about solder and soldering, and too often it shows in their results, As a guiding principle, most soldered joints should mechanically hold themselves together BEFORE the solder is applied (hence Colin's holes). Who would dream of making a wooden door without any joints, just relying on the glue? Yet we seem to think that is completely alright for a structural joint in our models - even where the contact area is minimal. It is only since I have been involved in demos that I have learned that in some of my descriptions of "how I do it" I have been guilty of vastly overestimating the basic understanding of some of my target audience! Penalty of having an "engineering" back ground perhaps...

EDIT:- I meant to add that an L-shaped piece of copper wire - although harder to "hide" is actually a much more sound engineering solution.

Best wishes,

[junctionmad]

I use ordinary 7/0.2 soldered to the bottom of the rail , works well and cant be seen

[Colin Parks]

Just to add that I do use Howard's methods for droppers on turnouts as in his point '0', with nickel silver rod instead of lace pins (though the pins would be much cheaper!). The 'drilled hole' method shown on the previous page is just for plain track, assembled with functional plastic chairs on plywood sleepers.

[barrowroad]

I'm a fan of Palatine Models etched dropper tags. I attach them to ply and rivet sleepers but after using the rivet press to mechanically hold them in position I also solder the bottom of the rivet to the tags. They work well for me. Dropper wires are moved away from the rail and therefore any avoid any heat problem from a soldering iron on functional plastic chairs or flexi track. With the latter I take out a plastic sleeper after laying the track and insert a prepared ply sleeper with palatine dropper.

[JFS]

I'm a fan of Palatine Models etched dropper tags. I attach them to ply and rivet sleepers but after using the rivet press to mechanically hold them in position I also solder the bottom of the rivet to the tags. They work well for me. Dropper wires are moved away from the rail and therefore any avoid any heat problem from a soldering iron on functional plastic chairs or flexi track. With the latter I take out a plastic sleeper after laying the track and insert a prepared ply sleeper with palatine dropper.

I am not directly familiar with these, but from what I understand, they depend on the integrity of the soldered joint between the rivet and the rail. Not so useful for those of us - and I think this includes Colin - who don't use rivets of course!

But also, I wonder if you are old enough to have used the "Turnout bonding strip" and "Wiring connector strip" which was the original P4 solution and which worked in a similar way? My first involvement in P4 was on a friend's layout almost 50 years ago which used this system. Admittedly, we had only tinned steel rivets then, but the bottom line was that the presence of the attachment to the rivet seemed to cause additional stresses as a result of expansion etc, which meant that these joints were precisely the ones which failed first! It seems we were not the only ones to experience this as TBS and WCS quickly disappeared from the scene never to be heard of again! Of course, from a track strength point of view, the odd weak join makes no odds, but electrically - there is only one which matters...

I am sure things have moved on since then (I have certainly learnt a bit more about soldering!), but for me the principle of using rivets in a dual purpose role brings back nightmares, and that means the electrical joints should never be subject to mechanical stresses. But then, perhaps we are all getting old enough not to care how our layouts will run in 10 years time!!

Best wishes,

[barrowroad]

The Palatine tags are fixed to the underside of the sleeper and are positioned over the rivet prior to closure using a society press. The mechanical joint is good however I use a touch of solder as an additional security.
I have used this method on my Bristol Barrow Road layout without any problem.

IMG_20150916_143707521 (1280x720).jpg

The tags in the photo are shown with dropper wires in place prior to attachment to the tags.

I am familiar with the P4 bonding strip and have used it in the past but prefer to use nickel silver or brass wire to bond pointwork.

Best wishes
Robin

[RobM]

The Palatine tags are fixed to the underside of the sleeper and are positioned over the rivet prior to closure using a society press. The mechanical joint is good however I use a touch of solder as an additional security.
I have used this method on my Bristol Barrow Road layout without any problem.
Best wishes
Robin

Like Robin I use the Palatine droppers and have had no problem (yet...!) on Marston Brewery and Mount Woodville. I do use a mix of functional chairs and rivets where I want the electric feed including on the turnouts. On Marston Brewery with little depth of ballast I bent the droppers and passed them through holes in the baseboard, not so with Mount Woodville where the track was well buried.

But then, perhaps we are all getting old enough not to care how our layouts will run in 10 years time!!

Best wishes,

So true Howard.........and hopefully I'll make it into my eighties.....
Rob

[Colin Parks]

Re. electical connections: there does seem to be a solution for riveted track construction and another for functional chair construction. One feature of the method I am using is that a rail could be lifted without disturbing the ballast or sleepers, although that would only be a last resort if something was really amiss.

Longevity of layouts: despite the aim of robustness being built in to this test track, I would be glad if it was still working this October! All being well, I have a plan to take it to a local show...

[Martin Wynne]

Re. electical connections: there does seem to be a solution for rivetted track construction and another for functional chair construction.

Hi Colin,

Using the rivets to make the electrical connections? This idea is fundamentally flawed as has been demonstrated several times over the years since the original Studiolith Protofour connector strips.

In the case of Brook Smith rivets, it is inevitable that the soldered rail fixing will have fractured on a few of them after a few years. Guess which ones it always turns out to be? And after the track is laid and ballasted it is very difficult to find or fix them.

It is a lot more reliable to make electrical connections directly to the rail. If you drill a 0.5mm hole through the rail web, you will have fresh clean metal and need only a smear of solder cream (SMT paste, 2% silver). Use solid 0.5mm tinned wire (from old telephone cables) to make a very neat connection. If you drill close to a chair and bend the wire underneath it will look like a rail anchor after painting.

Rail anchors:



cheers,

Martin.

[Will L]

Can't agree with Martin on this one. Knutsford East uses the Palatine type tags, which gave us no problems and have lasted at least 10 years. We always used two per piece of rail, as they are inaccessible once the track has been laid. Not a bad rule whatever ever system you use. Not aware we ever had any suggestion of a problems with them. There is a good sized contact for the solder joint between rail and rivet so, given we no longer use the tinned rivets, I cant see why we should expect the joint to be particularly inclined to fail.

Where as, soldering a wire down a hole isn't always a fool proof as you might have thought. It can be very difficult to persuade solder to run down the hole round the wire and what you actually get is a weak joint wth thin collar of solder round the wire at the very top of the hole, particularly after you've cleaned it up. Then it is impossible to tell the difference between that and a solder joint that does go all the way down the hole, until the joint fails. To guarantee success you need to ensure the bit of wire down the hole is well tinned before you start, which will make it significantly bigger and thus the hole needs to be larger than you might think too. Could be a problem in rail. I also suspect that if you put lots of flux on, so as to be sure you get some down to hole, the steam generated down the hole tends to blow the solder out rather than help it to run in.

This particular piece of "wisdom" actuals come from trying to build injectors and similar loco plumbing details out of bits of wire and tube.

[Colin Parks]

Not sure if this photo is clear enough, but there is a good fillet of solder around the dropper. This on a bullhead rail and the joint has the minimum size of fillet - there is room for a little more under the half chair and down the hole in the sleeper/timber. The same applies for flat bottom rail. I forgot to mention that I counter-sink the hole in the sleepertimber to accommodate the soldered joint.

The hole drilled in the rail almost inevitably breaks through the rail web, so there are virtually no blind holes. As can be seen in the photo, the solder had run out onto the railweb and has been cleaned up. Also, the dropper rod is dressed with a needle file to ease its fit in the hole, so hopefully (not a very good engineering term admittedly) the solder flows nicely into the hole.

IMG_8785 (2).JPG

[junctionmad]

I tried drilling the bottom of bullhead rail , I broke so many drills, that I gave up

[Colin Parks]

I tried drilling the bottom of bullhead rail , I broke so many drills, that I gave up

As it happens, I do it by eye with no centre-pop mark, just a scribed line across the foot for positioning lengthwise. Lots of light and a 3 x magnification Optivisor does the rest. The drill tip cuts into the metal very easily if taken gently. It does help to be able to sharpen the drills. The one seen in the photo had not much more than 2mm of fluting left after the tip was broken off and re-sharpened three times, making the drill much stronger.

All the best,

Colin

[Philip Hall]

I used to go through large quantities of 0.45mm and 0.35mm drills until first of all, I started buying HSS instead of carbon steel, and then when I started using the Proxxon drill press. I still break them but not so often!

I have been following this business of drilling holes in the rail for droppers with interest. In my case, with the wiring run on the surface of the baseboard, droppers aren’t really suitable, so, I will be soldering multi strand wire direct into the web of the rail. Not sure where I will go after that, maybe a bus bar of sorts, but I will be able to locate the soldered joints easily enough even though they will be camouflaged.

Philip

[Colin Parks]

Ballasting on the second baseboard has been well under way these past few days.

Now that a distinct method has been developed, progress has been much quicker. The sleepers were given a coat of Liberon 'Ebony' wood stain prior to ballasting and the headshunt ballast (left hand track) has now also been coloured with the same stain, to make it more like ash ballast. The sleepers have been given some distressing with a Peco track rubber, which gives a pleasing aged look to the wood. Because of the depth of the sleepers, once again the ballast has required two appplications to ensure a reasonably level 'top'. Clicking on the images to enlarge them will show just how much difference the second layer of ballast makes to the overall finish. Compare the unfinished centre track to the left and right hand ones. The adhesive of choice for the ballast is as before, Quick Shine floor polish.

The tracks are simple enough to lay, but there is a subtle curve on these lines just to add some aesthetic interest (and to make the construction of a platform just that bit harder). In this view, the heasdshunt to the left is almost finished - bar a few cosmetic fish plates and half-chairs. The rails for the right hand track have been laid since taking this photo and the middle track still needs a second application of ballast. It has proven much easier to lay the flat bottom rails without kinks than the bullhead rails, which got a little distorted in the process of sliding on the chairs.

IMG_8787 (2).JPG

The baseboards are bolted together, so that the alignment of the rails over the joint is as good as can be. Taking inspiration from the method used on Gordon Gravett's 'Pempoul', where the scenic treatments were carried across joints then parted once set, my boards will be parted when the ballasting and rail laying is completed. Hopefully, (that word again) the ballast will break cleanly if not altogether in a straight line. The plan is then to reinforce the ballast at the joint line with superglue and then be very careful when assembling the boards so as not to damage the edges, which will need some kind of protection across the ends.

IMG_8788.JPG

It all looks a bit plain as yet, but there are some Lanarkshire Models Supplies buffers to go at the end of each track, though not yet, as I am bound to bend one while bodging about at this stage. After tomorrow, attention will turn to making a crossover for the third baseboard. Having now had some experience of building flat bottom turnouts, there should be fewer mistakes and definitely switches of the correct length!

[Tony Wilkins]

Hi Colin.
May be a bit late now, but one trick when doing anything involving gluing across a baseboard joint is to put a layer of cling film between them first. This stops any glue that may inadvertently wick down the gap from sticking the two baseboard ends together.
Regards
Tony.

[Colin Parks]

Hi Colin.
May be a bit late now, but one trick when doing anything involving gluing across a baseboard joint is to put a layer of cling film between them first. This stops any glue that may inadvertently wick down the gap from sticking the two baseboard ends together.
Regards
Tony.

Hi Tony,

Thanks for the tip re. cling film in the joints. The adhesive [if that is the best word for it] that I am using to fix the ballast is not overly strong, but I shall try your suggestion for the next board joint

All the best,

Colin

[Will L]

Experience says that the ballast edges where the boards join will wear away if it goes up and down very often. On a previous layout, we kept a jar full of the ballast mix with a little added poster colour to match the weathering used on the ballast. This was sprinkled over the joint when the layout is set up effectively hiding the joint. That worked well and it was satisfyingly difficult to see where the joints were on, the track bed at least. Of course it all fell to the floor when the layout was taken down but a small coffee jar full did us for the best part of 15 years exhibiting.

[Colin Parks]

Experience says that the ballast edges where the boards join will wear away if it goes up and down very often. On a previous layout, we kept a jar full of the ballast mix with a little added poster colour to match the weathering used on the ballast. This was sprinkled over the joint when the layout is set up effectively hiding the joint. That worked well and it was satisfyingly difficult to see where the joints were on, the track bed at least. Of course it all fell to the floor when the layout was taken down but a small coffee jar full did us for the best part of 15 years exhibiting.

Hi Will,

I like your idea about filling the joints arond the trackbed on your layout with spare ballast material. My track will be weathered once fully tested, so a small amount of matching loose filling could be saved and applied as and when. (As long as it does not get in the mechanisms of course!)

Though this test track, which is slowly beginning to take on the form af a layout, is not likely to make it onto the show cicuit, it is of interest to me to see how well the baseboard joints can be hidden. One ruse that I am considering for the platform area, which spans one joint, is to have a one-piece, removable platform surface, located with magnets.

All the best,

Colin

[Le Corbusier]

Colin,

Have you posted anywhere a track plan of the intended final layout if all the experimentation proves successful?

Tim

[Will L]

I like your idea about filling the joints arond the trackbed on your layout with spare ballast material. My track will be weathered once fully tested, so a small amount of matching loose filling could be saved and applied as and when. (As long as it does not get in the mechanisms of course!)

We never had an issue with the lose ballast getting were it shouldn't, you only need very limited quantities

... is of interest to me to see how well the baseboard joints can be hidden. One ruse that I am considering for the platform area, which spans one joint, is to have a one-piece, removable platform surface, located with magnets.

The same layout featured a wooden boarded platforms which lent itself to having a removable bits which bridges the joints. Experience says anything that fits well won't need anything else to retain it in place.

Also Knutsford east had all it board joint coincident with bridges (mostly underbridges). The underbridges which hide the joints lifted out when the boards are split. In both the attached photos there is a baseboard joint across the middle of the picture.

P1060277.JPG

On the second photo, one of the bridges also carries the platforms.

P1050112.JPG

Pity the joints that don't show at track level, do show in the sky.

[Le Corbusier]

The same layout featured a wooden boarded platforms which lent itself to having a removable bits which bridges the joints. Experience says anything that fits well won't need anything else to retain it in place.

Also Knutsford east had all it board joint coincident with bridges (mostly underbridges). The underbridges which hide the joints lifted out when the boards are split. In both the attached photos there is a baseboard joint across the middle of the picture. P1060277.JPG On the second photo, one of the bridges also carries the platforms. P1050112.JPG Pity the joints that don't show at track level, do show in the sky.

Will,

Is there a good photo archive anywhere for Knutsford East? .... looks a great layout and the 'members layouts' section is fairly limited in what it shows.

Tim

[Colin Parks]

Colin,

Have you posted anywhere a track plan of the intended final layout if all the experimentation proves successful?

Tim

Er, no Tim!

There is a Templot plan which I suppose it would be OK to post if you are interested.

All the best,

Colin

[Colin Parks]

I like your idea about filling the joints arond the trackbed on your layout with spare ballast material. My track will be weathered once fully tested, so a small amount of matching loose filling could be saved and applied as and when. (As long as it does not get in the mechanisms of course!)

We never had an issue with the lose ballast getting were it shouldn't, you only need very limited quantities

... is of interest to me to see how well the baseboard joints can be hidden. One ruse that I am considering for the platform area, which spans one joint, is to have a one-piece, removable platform surface, located with magnets.

The same layout featured a wooden boarded platforms which lent itself to having a removable bits which bridges the joints. Experience says anything that fits well won't need anything else to retain it in place.

Also Knutsford east had all it board joint coincident with bridges (mostly underbridges). The underbridges which hide the joints lifted out when the boards are split. In both the attached photos there is a baseboard joint across the middle of the picture. P1060277.JPG On the second photo, one of the bridges also carries the platforms. P1050112.JPG Pity the joints that don't show at track level, do show in the sky.

Hi Will,

Some very convincing concealment of baseboard joints in those pictures! Having parts that span joints, such as those bridges, do draw the eye away from the part line and certainly provide a more sophisticated solution than just having a carefully maintained leading edges at the joints - as I have been thinking of doing.

All the best,

Colin

[Paul Willis]

Will,

Is there a good photo archive anywhere for Knutsford East? .... looks a great layout and the 'members layouts' section is fairly limited in what it shows.

Tim

Tim,

I have an assortment of photos from the Society's archive for publications purposes. I'll post some of them up here [Edit: now on its own thread here https://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5764 to avoid cluttering up Colin's thread]later, and then Will can tell me that it's the wrong layout later

In the meantime, an overview...

IMG_6573.JPG

Cheers
Paul Willis
Deputy Chairman