Ilkley Engine Shed, West Yorkshire late 1950s

Tell us about your layout, where you put it, how you built it, how you operate it.
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PeteT
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Re: Ilkley Engine Shed, West Yorkshire late 1950s

Postby PeteT » Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:08 am

Good progress is being made - all the bullhead track is now laid, and I am getting through drawing up the shed in cad for laser cutting.

I started marking out the internal pits on plastruct L girder, but was having a couple of issues. I had thinned the L to the right depth, and was scribing the top at brick intervals - but was doing the scribing with a knife, which resulted in quite a bow forming. I got myself a Tamiya/Olfa scriber now though so need to revisit this.

I have 4 Midland buffer stops from Mr Franks which are in the process of being painted. I know that the two roads next to the shed ended up with red paint alongside white, but have yet to confirm this for the other 2. I would think that all 4 would have been done at the same time (or if any were lower priority it would be the two which definitely did get a splash of red) but this might make an ass of me... (but not, in this instance, of you).

I am also in the process of working out in my mind the rest of the scenics. I was very impressed with Leeman Road at S4N with the carriage sidings in the background, which told me I need to try and represent the mainline rather than just having blue sky...

I am playing with ballasting options off board, and once happy with both texture and colour will start moving this on board

This photo currently on ebay, which I hope to get my hands on, also shows a few details I am aiming to have on board:
- Fogmans hut. Will the new LRM LNWR one represent the Midland variety ok? It looks like the roof style is different, but don't have any more of a closeup of this yet.
- Signal on the mainline. I want to include this as a proving exercise for building and making them work. I will definitely need them working on future layouts.
- Signal cable supports along the length. I know point rodding stools were regional, so presume these were too? So I need to find some to take a tape measure to... or a kit source. Then I need to work out how to negotiate a board joint, though I have a couple of ideas to experiment with here.
- Telegraph poles.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/142343956176?_trksid=p2055359.m1431.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

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Noel
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Re: Ilkley Engine Shed, West Yorkshire late 1950s

Postby Noel » Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:21 am

PeteT wrote:I have 4 Midland buffer stops from Mr Franks which are in the process of being painted. I know that the two roads next to the shed ended up with red paint alongside white, but have yet to confirm this for the other 2. I would think that all 4 would have been done at the same time (or if any were lower priority it would be the two which definitely did get a splash of red) but this might make an ass of me... (but not, in this instance, of you).


Reading suggests that it was not at all unknown for shed stops to get knocked down from time to time, after which a newly painted replacement would then be evident for a while. So the state of one [or two] might not be a guide to the state of the other(s). Which is a good thing, or a bad thing, depending on your point of view...
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Noel

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PeteT
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Re: Ilkley Engine Shed, West Yorkshire late 1950s

Postby PeteT » Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:16 am

Thanks Noel, I'll take it as a good thing! I like a bit of prototypical variety, so will leave the other 2 as just while for the time being. They can always gain some red if evidence to the contrary appears...

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Tim V
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Re: Ilkley Engine Shed, West Yorkshire late 1950s

Postby Tim V » Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:11 pm

Those look like the metal signal wire supports, I have a WR version in my garage.

I wouldn't bother with modelling the signal wires. They are about a 1/4" diameter - about 0.08mm. Pendon has put wires on its fence posts, quite honestly I don't like them, grossly overscale and liable to attract dust.
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steamraiser
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Re: Ilkley Engine Shed, West Yorkshire late 1950s

Postby steamraiser » Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:38 pm

Robin has got some very fine signal wires on his Rolvendon layout.

Gordon A

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PeteT
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Re: Ilkley Engine Shed, West Yorkshire late 1950s

Postby PeteT » Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:39 pm

I appreciate Tim's point, but I do think if done well wiring in can be effective. Robin uses 'invisible thread' of which I now have some to experiment.

It is interesting to note in that photo that the signal wires stand out very clearly, but there isnt a hint of the telegraph wires with a seemingly overcast day as the background.

I have drawings of Midland pattern signal wire pulleys in 'A pictorial record of LMS signals' by L.G. Warburton, though it doesnt include a standard for the bracket/post. Those included in the book are on wooden posts but those at Ilkley look to be metal posts.

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Noel
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Re: Ilkley Engine Shed, West Yorkshire late 1950s

Postby Noel » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:32 am

PeteT wrote: Those included in the book are on wooden posts but those at Ilkley look to be metal posts.


Not my field, but could these be LMSR or BR replacements?
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Noel

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PeteT
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Re: Ilkley Engine Shed, West Yorkshire late 1950s

Postby PeteT » Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:39 am

Noel wrote:
PeteT wrote: Those included in the book are on wooden posts but those at Ilkley look to be metal posts.


Not my field, but could these be LMSR or BR replacements?


Most of my S&T knowledge in the area is more based on Embsay than Ilkley, where the Midland/very early LMS updated the equipment with Midland variants in the early 1920s, and BR alterations took place in 1959 so I'll be going for the earlier option. I had assumed similar timescales for Ilkley...

I recalled a photo with the signal in question in transition though, from the ever useful Embsay site:

Image

Class 5 4-6-0 No. 5043 with the 8.20am Morcambe to Leeds train diverted via Ilkley on Sunday 30th May 1948, passing Ilkley engine shed. The Midland signals are about to be replaced by new tubular steel post upper quadrant signals. The crosses on the new signals denote they are not yet in use. A colour light starting signal stands on this site today.

So yes, they could very well be...

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PeteT
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Re: Ilkley Engine Shed, West Yorkshire late 1950s

Postby PeteT » Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:15 am

I have been procrastinating over the pits inside the shed for a while. They had brick tops, and flap bottom rail clipped directly to it. I was looking at plastic option to scribe the bricks on, but it all seemed a bit too flimsy so have gone with a brass rectangular channel, rail soldered directly. The edge with have a strip of plasticard which I can then scribe for that top brick course, and use that as a packer for the horizontal courses below.

Time will tell if metal expansion differences between the brass section and NS rail cause issues...

20170422_194206.jpg


I have also built 1 Masokits tiebar, and replaced the functional tiebar as per Flymo on the Scalefour forum. I am happy with this, just needs a second tie bar adding.

My original method worked, but but this looks a far better solution to ensure the tiebar does move in the desired direction!

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PeteT
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Re: Ilkley Engine Shed, West Yorkshire late 1950s

Postby PeteT » Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:01 pm

I have finally got round to finishing and fitting the internal pits. In the end, these have the flat bottom code 55 rail soldered directly to metal rectangular section brass. On the side of this is a strip of plasticard at the top, with brick plasticard for the side walls and bottom. The top section will be scribed for mortar lines between the vertically placed bricks with a pencil once its all painted. Whether I get all the way into the gloomy depths doing this time will tell...

I have also been experimenting with a bit of scenic stuff. I have done the initial run in from the fiddleyard with granite ballast from Javis (which would have probably not got that far from the mainline, but I wanted a bit of actual ballast laid as this is, after all, a test bed for future things! The ash ballast is actual ash. This was put through a coffee grinder, of which there are 2 things to note. Firstly, I have no SWMBO to complain about this use for such appliances. Secondly, this was frivolously purchased specially for the job (less than a tenner from a well known auction site) and has only been near the kitchen for cleaning.

This has all been stuck down with Klear.

The grass bank is an extra course of cork thick, with teddy bear furr on top. This has been initially trimmed but needs a lot more work yet - the real area looks to have been quite clumpy.

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PeteT
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Re: Ilkley Engine Shed, West Yorkshire late 1950s

Postby PeteT » Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:05 am

Hi All,

Just a brief post, mainly to apologise for the long silence! Things have been busy (in life, the universe, and everything) but thats not to say I haven't had time to make some progress. What I havent had time to do is both make progress AND document it! This weekend I am taking the layout to Scaleforum, in Aylesbury, as part of the Scalefour Society Bristol Area Group demo/show and tell. If you're there please come and say hello. I know there are a few further flung followers of this topic though and once this deadline is out of the way, and the dust has settled, I will make sure to post some updates. The deadline has been good to focus my attention and get things done.

Cheers,

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PeteT
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Re: Ilkley Engine Shed, West Yorkshire late 1950s

Postby PeteT » Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:56 pm

edited to sort out the photo rotation with a quick trip through paint.net...

Hi All,

As promised, a bit of a post Scaleforum forum update. Firstly thanks to those who came and looked, asked and chatted. I wasn't quite sure what sort of reception to expect - there are many people who vocally deride both loco shed layouts and part built layouts, so maybe two wrongs make a right! :P For my part, as shed layouts go, I think it is operationally interesting as it isnt exactly well laid out for efficient operation! Thanks also to Mark Tatlow for allowing me a bit of time to look around on both days.

So the current state of play:

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The turntable has rails, 1 handrail, but is neither motorised nor wired up pick up wise. The problem is getting it to rotate smoothly. The central bearing is fine, but the wheels are 4 laminated etches which then need cleaning etc and are causing me the issues. I bought some lowmac wheels at the weekend which will be my next test. The stepper motor drive (Arduino based) is ready to go once I have it rotating freely. I will then turn my attention to a locking bar mechanism.

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The CAD for the shed stonework is nearing completion, with a couple more tests to do with interlocking pieces and doing course lines around the edge of the buttresses, but printouts of the current state were used for the exhibition. The window etches were built and in place. Also to be seen are some cheap Chinese lamps. These were about £2 for 20, and are very much a placeholder but do help to set the scene for the time being

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These last two are a test of LED lighting. Firstly is with the LED strips as I have them, which are 3 strips all of warm white. The blue backscene is quite washed out with this:

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and with Richard's (a fellow Bristol Area Group demoer, who was demostrating different lighting options) LED strip of 2 warm and 2 brilliant white (so overall 5 warm to 2 brilliant as both of our strips were on). This helps lift the blue and green, and the unpainted teddy bear fur is more of a straw colour under them too.

Having seen this result I am planning to add 1 strip of brilliant white, possibly with a dimming option, bearing in mind that this was in a sportshall with a very warm white colour overall so a variable would allow me to adjust it on site. I am also planning on moving the lighting strip outboard by a few more inches to stop the front/coaling road from being in shadow.

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To answer another question from over the weekend, the teddybear fur is 'faux fur fabric material: wolf' from ebay.
Last edited by PeteT on Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Le Corbusier
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Re: Ilkley Engine Shed, West Yorkshire late 1950s

Postby Le Corbusier » Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:10 pm

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Last edited by Le Corbusier on Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Tim Lee

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PeteT
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Re: Ilkley Engine Shed, West Yorkshire late 1950s

Postby PeteT » Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:13 pm

Thanks Tim! Is there some simple BB code to use for this? Google suggested a rotateangle=x, but it didnt work in my preview - presumably as it is aimed at img inserts rather than attachment inserts?

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Le Corbusier
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Re: Ilkley Engine Shed, West Yorkshire late 1950s

Postby Le Corbusier » Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:19 pm

Hi Pete,

I just crop the pictures minimally and re save and find that this seems to re-orient them correctly ... no idea why but it works. Nice pictures :thumb looking forward to watching this progress. ;)
Tim Lee

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Tim V
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Re: Ilkley Engine Shed, West Yorkshire late 1950s

Postby Tim V » Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:20 pm

In W10 I use an app "basic photo viewer" which has a rotate function
(different Tim)
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PeteT
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Re: Ilkley Engine Shed, West Yorkshire late 1950s

Postby PeteT » Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:32 pm

Thanks Both, doing the RMWeb copy it was having the same issue, so having done the same thing via paint.net it has also corrected it so I'll do sort them here too. Probably explains why I havent seen the issue personally before, as I usually have a lot of cropping to show the bit of the photo of interest!

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PeteT
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Re: Ilkley Engine Shed, West Yorkshire late 1950s

Postby PeteT » Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:58 pm

Ilkley had a pleasant outing to Railwells (which is now apparently over a month ago...) , and while I hadn't made as many steps of progress as I was hoping to since Scaleforum it generally behaved. The punters seemed interested in both it and the prototype, which is always nice to hear! Being right by the front door could have been a make or break!

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It also went into DC mode briefly, so that Jane (from the Wantage Tramway) could stretch her wheels.

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I had the turntable installed, and my pickup disk was working, but the turntable itself didn't turn very well - I later found due to the current collecting pin heads on my disk fouled the sprung PCB contacts used on the underside of the turntable.

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The turntable well coping was stone, and I have represented this with cork. I printed out a template, and scored the mortar lines with a triangular file, before painting.

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Plus a rather grainy photo of the drive mechanism! Direct drive from the stepper motor, via the coupling (ie no gearbox other than that on the stepper). This is driven by an Arduino, and I have a variable resistor also feeding the Arduino to allow me to play with different speeds.

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One thing which isn't yet in place, though I did built the option into the deck - is a locking pin. I have decided this will be useful. I think the stepper motor is precise, but I have a flexible coupling between the motor shalf and turntable drive shaft, which is to take out any slight alignment descrepancies. I think this is allowing rotational play (although from its design it doesnt look like it should!). Either way, there is some play, so installing a locking pin is the next job! Once that is in place, this end of the layout can have the scenics sorted out.

There is a video of the turntable in action currently taking its time to upload to youtube. Once that has completed I will post the link, should anyone either not believe me, or have a minute of their life to spare!

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PeteT
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Re: Ilkley Engine Shed, West Yorkshire late 1950s

Postby PeteT » Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:30 am


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barrowroad
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Re: Ilkley Engine Shed, West Yorkshire late 1950s

Postby barrowroad » Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:11 am

Hi Pete,
Congratulations the turntable turns very smoothly. What is the source of your pick up disk? I could use one for my turntable(s).

Robin

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jjnewitt
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Re: Ilkley Engine Shed, West Yorkshire late 1950s

Postby jjnewitt » Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:45 am

I assume the next job will be to add some water? :D

Looks like it works well. Is there room to add a man to push it?

Justin

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Lord Colnago
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Re: Ilkley Engine Shed, West Yorkshire late 1950s

Postby Lord Colnago » Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:08 am

Hi Pete,

Well done. That does indeed work very smoothly. I didn't get a chance to come and have a proper look at Wells but you're making steady progress which is good to see. Your 1P (I hope that's right, I'm not all that up on Midland engines I'm sorry to say) looks good and also runs nicely. All that and a fine road vehicle as well. What more could one ask for. Well done again, look forward to seeing more.

John.
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Le Corbusier
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Re: Ilkley Engine Shed, West Yorkshire late 1950s

Postby Le Corbusier » Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:19 am

Any progress photos for the build of the 1P :thumb ... or have I missed them on another thread :?

Interested in how you have engineered the truck ;)
Tim Lee

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PeteT
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Re: Ilkley Engine Shed, West Yorkshire late 1950s

Postby PeteT » Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:03 pm

Thanks All,

Robin - the pickup disk I drew up myself, and got them manufactured by pcbway. I think it was $7 for 5 including P&P, so your more than welcome to a couple! The dimensions were designed around the London Road pivot boss dimensions. The PCBs soldered to the deck were hand fettled, but while the dimensions are pretty critical it was simple enough to measure up, unlike marking out and insulating perfect circles for the disk.

Justin - erm, yes - just as soon as someone shows me a photo which proves my first attempt is incorrect ;) I haven't really considered a man, in that while it looks wrong rotating without him, it would also look wrong when he is stood there pushing with no loco to turn! One thing I was assessing for feasibility was having the locking pins move - which could be done with a magnet and spring. This may yet happen, but isn't at the top of the queue...

John - you always looked to be kept busy at least! My next anticipated deadlines/outings are Scalefour North in 2021, and possibly an extra in June 2020. It is a 1P :D

Tim - there is some of my 1P build here:

viewtopic.php?f=135&t=6244

But the truck I actually covered on Mark Ss build topic:

viewtopic.php?f=95&t=5905

Anything not covered/clear please fire away.

Other than painting the chassis black there hasn't been much progress since the last bit of my workbench topic - but it is high up the list. It is running really nicely so deserves a super structure to match! All is in line aside from tank fillers, so I'm going to draw up an etch. They were really quite flat.

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PeteT
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Re: Ilkley Engine Shed, West Yorkshire late 1950s

Postby PeteT » Thu Nov 21, 2019 6:25 pm

Not a lot to show, progress wise, I've mainly been playing with a Dave Bradwell J39 chassis (of which more elsewhere anon) that I have recently pulled back onto the workbench. However I saw these earlier on the 'Our Ilkley' facebook page. The only aerial views I have seen of Ilkley before cover the trainshed and a bit of the goods yard - but these are brilliant. I still can't tell what the turntable well base is, but there we are.

Facebook gets a lot of bad press - but there are a lot of interesting groups on there and the amount of photos shared is huge - so a few gems do turn up.

I hope they are of wider interest!

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