Eversley Green - P4 BR (S) layout

Tell us about your layout, where you put it, how you built it, how you operate it.
User avatar
Colin Parks
Posts: 541
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 4:44 pm

Re: Eversley Green - P4 BR (S) layout

Postby Colin Parks » Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:13 pm

Hi Kelly,

The track plan has come on very well by the looks of it. One thing that I would suggest is to consider whether there should be two sidings in the bottom right hand corner. The siding to the right of this pair appears to gain less space for stock than the turnout which provides access to it. Perhaps omitting this turnout and curving the remaining siding to the left would even gain a little more capacity overall.

All the best,

Colin

User avatar
kelly
Posts: 263
Joined: Mon May 30, 2016 1:59 pm

Re: Eversley Green - P4 BR (S) layout

Postby kelly » Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:20 pm

Colin Parks wrote:Hi Kelly,

The track plan has come on very well by the looks of it. One thing that I would suggest is to consider whether there should be two sidings in the bottom right hand corner. The siding to the right of this pair appears to gain less space for stock than the turnout which provides access to it. Perhaps omitting this turnout and curving the remaining siding to the left would even gain a little more capacity overall.

All the best,

Colin



Thanks Colin.

The two sidings on the right are private gated off area, the smaller one being a stabling point/shed for the private engine for the works/factory there. I've redrawn the image a bit to tidy it up and make it clearer what goes where. Hope this helps clear up what is what. The bottom right is either going to be a bottling plant for milk or a ferro-concrete factory (there was one of both in the area based on).

sketchboard_2017_10_03_1844_08.png
DEMU UPDate Editor
DEMU
Photos on Flickr

User avatar
Colin Parks
Posts: 541
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 4:44 pm

Re: Eversley Green - P4 BR (S) layout

Postby Colin Parks » Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:44 pm

Hi Kelly,

I understand now!

All the best,

Colin

User avatar
kelly
Posts: 263
Joined: Mon May 30, 2016 1:59 pm

Re: Eversley Green - P4 BR (S) layout

Postby kelly » Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:17 pm

Colin Parks wrote:Hi Kelly,

I understand now!

All the best,

Colin



I have the templot templates for the first two boards printed out and trimmed ready to start laying track.

Hopefully will get a start in the next month or so depending on health and other things.
DEMU UPDate Editor
DEMU
Photos on Flickr

User avatar
Le Corbusier
Posts: 932
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2015 3:39 pm

Re: Eversley Green - P4 BR (S) layout

Postby Le Corbusier » Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:25 am

kelly wrote:
I have the templot templates for the first two boards printed out and trimmed ready to start laying track.

Hopefully will get a start in the next month or so depending on health and other things.


Nothing to say but enjoying watching this develop Kelly.

Tim
Tim Lee

User avatar
kelly
Posts: 263
Joined: Mon May 30, 2016 1:59 pm

Re: Eversley Green - P4 BR (S) layout

Postby kelly » Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:28 am

Le Corbusier wrote:
kelly wrote:
I have the templot templates for the first two boards printed out and trimmed ready to start laying track.

Hopefully will get a start in the next month or so depending on health and other things.


Nothing to say but enjoying watching this develop Kelly.

Tim


Thanks Tim.

Now the Templot planning is done I can focus on trackbuilding at some point and further rolling stock research (correct items for the period/traffic etc). Always more research :)
DEMU UPDate Editor
DEMU
Photos on Flickr

User avatar
RobM
Posts: 860
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 4:39 pm

Re: Eversley Green - P4 BR (S) layout

Postby RobM » Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:05 pm

kelly wrote: Always more research :)


I always enjoy that bit... :thumb ...Like Tim, am following with interest.
Rob
http://www.robmilliken.co.uk
Updated December 2016

User avatar
kelly
Posts: 263
Joined: Mon May 30, 2016 1:59 pm

Re: Eversley Green - P4 BR (S) layout

Postby kelly » Sat Oct 07, 2017 6:06 pm

RobM wrote:
kelly wrote: Always more research :)


I always enjoy that bit... :thumb ...Like Tim, am following with interest.
Rob


I do as well. History and research is often the most enjoyable bit sometimes. A good book goes a long way :)
DEMU UPDate Editor
DEMU
Photos on Flickr

User avatar
Le Corbusier
Posts: 932
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2015 3:39 pm

Re: Eversley Green - P4 BR (S) layout

Postby Le Corbusier » Sat Oct 07, 2017 11:12 pm

Kelly,

What is the software you use to do your track plans before going on to develop them in templot?

Tim
Tim Lee

User avatar
kelly
Posts: 263
Joined: Mon May 30, 2016 1:59 pm

Re: Eversley Green - P4 BR (S) layout

Postby kelly » Sun Oct 08, 2017 7:33 am

Le Corbusier wrote:Kelly,

What is the software you use to do your track plans before going on to develop them in templot?

Tim


Hi Tim, it is all drawn up in Templot. The diagrams uploaded are exports from Templot's Sketchboard. Prior to starting to draw it in Templot, some hand drawn plans were made and then track laid on boards to better visualise until we'd got some we were reasonably happy with. Then the work in Templot began. Earlier in the thread there was a simple drawing drawn up using Inkscape, a free/open source vector drawing program.

Thanks,

Kelly
DEMU UPDate Editor
DEMU
Photos on Flickr

User avatar
Le Corbusier
Posts: 932
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2015 3:39 pm

Re: Eversley Green - P4 BR (S) layout

Postby Le Corbusier » Sun Oct 08, 2017 7:42 am

Thanks Kelly,

I have worked in the detailed templot but not utilised sketchboard ... I will have to go back and see how that works.

Tim
Tim Lee

User avatar
kelly
Posts: 263
Joined: Mon May 30, 2016 1:59 pm

Re: Eversley Green - P4 BR (S) layout

Postby kelly » Sun Oct 08, 2017 7:46 am

Le Corbusier wrote:Thanks Kelly,

I have worked in the detailed templot but not utilised sketchboard ... I will have to go back and see how that works.

Tim


It gives a little more flexibility when trying to draw shapes to represent items when doing things like this thread I've found.
DEMU UPDate Editor
DEMU
Photos on Flickr

User avatar
jim s-w
Posts: 1592
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:56 pm

Re: Eversley Green - P4 BR (S) layout

Postby jim s-w » Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:04 am

for what its worth Kelly I think you have way to much going on. Id look to ditch at least 50% of the track really.

HTH

Jim

User avatar
RobM
Posts: 860
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 4:39 pm

Re: Eversley Green - P4 BR (S) layout

Postby RobM » Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:05 pm

jim s-w wrote:for what its worth Kelly I think you have way to much going on. Id look to ditch at least 50% of the track really.

HTH

Jim


I can see where you are coming from Jim. Before Manston Brewery I had "built' 3 rather ambitious layouts and scrapped 3 layouts! I don't know the level of Kelly's skills in track building etc but during my first forays into P4 it was all a learning curve and as I started things progressed and when I got to the end I was totally unhappy with the work that had gone before. This happened to 3 so called layouts and that is why I went for the SGW and managed to pull it off (?) with the Brewery......Mount Woodville was a little step up although primarily accented on the buildings. Not a criticism but so far, as I know, Kelly has not yet demonstrated her ability at reliable track making. Methinks that Kelly should at least have a go at a plank to iron out any potential probs.
Kelly, this is meant to be constructive and we are here to support you but at present we have no other evidence of your abilities but are here to help you out where necessary.......
Rob
http://www.robmilliken.co.uk
Updated December 2016

User avatar
kelly
Posts: 263
Joined: Mon May 30, 2016 1:59 pm

Re: Eversley Green - P4 BR (S) layout

Postby kelly » Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:14 pm

RobM wrote:
jim s-w wrote:for what its worth Kelly I think you have way to much going on. Id look to ditch at least 50% of the track really.

HTH

Jim


I can see where you are coming from Jim. Before Manston Brewery I had "built' 3 rather ambitious layouts and scrapped 3 layouts! I don't know the level of Kelly's skills in track building etc but during my first forays into P4 it was all a learning curve and as I started things progressed and when I got to the end I was totally unhappy with the work that had gone before. This happened to 3 so called layouts and that is why I went for the SGW and managed to pull it off (?) with the Brewery......Mount Woodville was a little step up although primarily accented on the buildings. Not a criticism but so far, as I know, Kelly has not yet demonstrated her ability at reliable track making. Methinks that Kelly should at least have a go at a plank to iron out any potential probs.
Kelly, this is meant to be constructive and we are here to support you but at present we have no other evidence of your abilities but are here to help you out where necessary.......
Rob


The plan was originally for this to be a SGW, but it quickly proved to be too small for what we both wanted to achieve from it (4 car units). It is a lot less ambitious than the first plan (15ft long+ etc), which was put on hold to work on this instead to learn track building and other things along the way.

Building a small plank first is a good suggestion and one I'll attempt first before doing the trackwork on this.
DEMU UPDate Editor
DEMU
Photos on Flickr

User avatar
RobM
Posts: 860
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 4:39 pm

Re: Eversley Green - P4 BR (S) layout

Postby RobM » Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:22 pm

Phew Kelly.....that is good to hear about doing a plank first.....but your original concept looks good but take it slowly...... ;)
Rob
http://www.robmilliken.co.uk
Updated December 2016

User avatar
kelly
Posts: 263
Joined: Mon May 30, 2016 1:59 pm

Re: Eversley Green - P4 BR (S) layout

Postby kelly » Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:26 pm

RobM wrote:Phew Kelly.....that is good to hear about doing a plank first.....but your original concept looks good but take it slowly...... ;)
Rob


That is the aim. I have to take it slowly in order to be able to spread the costs out, not able to just go ordering lots of items in one go, so slow work. It was never envisioned that this would be a fast build :)

What I might do is draw up a few different Templot templates for a few different points (similar to what I'll need for this layout) and attempt building those, and if they work out ok, then move on to the templates for the layout.
DEMU UPDate Editor
DEMU
Photos on Flickr

User avatar
RobM
Posts: 860
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 4:39 pm

Re: Eversley Green - P4 BR (S) layout

Postby RobM » Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:06 pm

That's good.......I come from a different standby point being in my twighlight years......and needing to cram as much as I can whilst health and eye sight permits. Keep attacking!!!!!!........and am following with great interest...... :thumb
Rob
http://www.robmilliken.co.uk
Updated December 2016

User avatar
steve howe
Posts: 407
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:16 pm

Re: Eversley Green - P4 BR (S) layout

Postby steve howe » Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:46 pm

kelly wrote:The plan was originally for this to be a SGW, but it quickly proved to be too small for what we both wanted to achieve from it (4 car units). It is a lot less ambitious than the first plan (15ft long+ etc), which was put on hold to work on this instead to learn track building and other things along the way.

Building a small plank first is a good suggestion and one I'll attempt first before doing the trackwork on this.


Three sidings on a 4' x 1' can occupy quite a bit of time! ;)
https://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=101&t=3745&p=53559#p53559

Steve

User avatar
kelly
Posts: 263
Joined: Mon May 30, 2016 1:59 pm

Re: Eversley Green - P4 BR (S) layout

Postby kelly » Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:13 am

steve howe wrote:
kelly wrote:The plan was originally for this to be a SGW, but it quickly proved to be too small for what we both wanted to achieve from it (4 car units). It is a lot less ambitious than the first plan (15ft long+ etc), which was put on hold to work on this instead to learn track building and other things along the way.

Building a small plank first is a good suggestion and one I'll attempt first before doing the trackwork on this.


Three sidings on a 4' x 1' can occupy quite a bit of time! ;)
https://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=101&t=3745&p=53559#p53559

Steve


Hi Steve, thanks. I had come across that thread when looking through the sgw area, though haven't had a chance to properly read through it as knackered from a busy weekend at gaydon for the Hornby Mag show.
DEMU UPDate Editor
DEMU
Photos on Flickr

User avatar
kelly
Posts: 263
Joined: Mon May 30, 2016 1:59 pm

Re: Eversley Green - P4 BR (S) layout

Postby kelly » Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:58 pm

Taking on board comments above about doing a shunting plank first, i've come up with a possible quicky plan. I came across a plan for Cleckwycke by Ian Everett, which seemed like a good starting point. Slightly extended and the platform rearranged a bit.

test_plank_2017_10_10_2150_59.png


I might remove the kickback to the left, but otherwise it is workable and simple enough. It has the advantage that I already have a couple of 3ftx1ft6" boards I can use for this (they were for Eversley Green, but I can always easily order more from Tim Horn).
DEMU UPDate Editor
DEMU
Photos on Flickr

User avatar
Noel
Posts: 801
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:04 pm

Re: Eversley Green - P4 BR (S) layout

Postby Noel » Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:47 am

P4 B6 points are roughly 11-12 inches long [A5s would be a bit shorter, but would probably restrict the stock used], and you will need a length of plain track of at least 12 inches, exclusive of any buffer stops, before the points on the top two roads. Even then it will only allow for a small tank engine and 1 or 2 wagons to change track. I question whether the plan as drawn will fit on a 6ft long board. Provision of a loop might also make it more interesting, and allow easier operation by one loco. It's a problem I have looked at recently, and have, rather reluctantly, ended up with a much more minimalist design, and I have 8ft available.
Noel

User avatar
kelly
Posts: 263
Joined: Mon May 30, 2016 1:59 pm

Re: Eversley Green - P4 BR (S) layout

Postby kelly » Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:55 pm

Noel wrote:P4 B6 points are roughly 11-12 inches long [A5s would be a bit shorter, but would probably restrict the stock used], and you will need a length of plain track of at least 12 inches, exclusive of any buffer stops, before the points on the top two roads. Even then it will only allow for a small tank engine and 1 or 2 wagons to change track. I question whether the plan as drawn will fit on a 6ft long board. Provision of a loop might also make it more interesting, and allow easier operation by one loco. It's a problem I have looked at recently, and have, rather reluctantly, ended up with a much more minimalist design, and I have 8ft available.


I don't really have the room for more than 6ft, ideally 4ft would be better, but it would require a5 points which I expect to be too restrictive.

The templot plan needs a bit more refinement, but as it is it has about 1ft after the upper most point. I envisioned only small locos such as a H or M7, or class 33/73/24 . The real goal though is to get working point work accomplished. Being able to shunt it successfully would be good too. The top two lines (platform and loop) form the run round facilities with the other set of points being off scene (see Simon and Terry Bendall's superb Elcot Road for something similar.) To run round the loco will need to be run into the fiddle yard and re-emerge on a different line. The decision to have the other end of loop 'off scene' was taken because of the restricted space available. There is no real need to be able to put wagons over the crossover in the patform as it will be there simply to allow a loco to run round.

I expect I can't really move the cross over without putting the other points across the baseboard joins. The top two roads being mainly for a 2 car electric unit or DEMU to run into. And a push pull set protentially. I hope the explanation makes sense.
DEMU UPDate Editor
DEMU
Photos on Flickr

User avatar
Noel
Posts: 801
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:04 pm

Re: Eversley Green - P4 BR (S) layout

Postby Noel » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:27 pm

kelly wrote: I hope the explanation makes sense.


Not altogether, I'm afraid. On the diagram you showed, the pointwork will take up about 4ft of the 6ft length you say you have. Or are you saying that the fiddle yard is in addition to the 6ft? The clearance on the point in the second line from the back [into the yard?] will also be about 1ft if 6ft is the full length.

kelly wrote: I envisioned only small locos such as a H or M7, or class 33/73/24


A class 24 or 33 is 51ft long over buffers, give or take, with the class 73 slightly longer. Add one wagon at 20/21ft over buffers, and, if 6ft is all there is, that's the 1ft clearance taken up, even assuming no buffer stop. The 0-4-4T are a bit shorter, the M7 at 35ft and the H at 33ft, so you might just be able to fit in 2 such wagons, but not longer vehicles. If you want to test your point building skills properly, you need to be able to propel several vehicles at a time through pointwork, I suggest, including lwb vehicles.
Noel

User avatar
Colin Parks
Posts: 541
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 4:44 pm

Re: Eversley Green - P4 BR (S) layout

Postby Colin Parks » Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:56 pm

Hi Kelly,

Noel has a very valid point re. the amount of plain track that will be available for testing stock through the point work. If you are having a fiddle yard at the l/h, then there is more room to test stock, though it might be an idea to have another fiddle yard to enable stock to be tested over the crossover.

The board I am currently working on for my project will be laid using turnouts with B switches and 1:8 crossings (B8) and is 1.2m long. Even by overlapping crossovers, there is precious little room for manoeuver at each end, with a crossover amounting to some 640mm.

All the best,

Colin
Last edited by Colin Parks on Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.


Return to “Layouts and Operations”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest