Canonbury Goods: NLR c.1903

[garethashenden]

This is the start of my new P4 layout. A change of gauge (EM to P4 in this case) is a rather major undertaking, but my move back to America from London in October seemed like a good time to make the switch.

This layout will depict a small fictional goods yard on the North London Railway, somewhere between Highbury & Islington and Dalston Junction. Canonbury/Mildmay Park or something like that. The layout itself is a standard 5/3/3 Inglenook set in the railway cutting. Putting the goods yard in the cutting probably isn't prototypical, but it is the atmosphere I wanted to depict. One of both of the three wagon tracks will be for domestic coal, while the 5 wagon siding will be for general goods, probably with a loading dock of some sort. There is an bridge over the entrance track, a pub on the corner and the backs of terraced houses for a background.

I spent the afternoon making a 1/4 scale (1mm/ft) model. The main purpose of this was to check that what I had in my head would actually look good. I'm quite happy with it and plan to start work soon.

It's about 45"x12"

[grovenor-2685]

Nothing wrong with being in a cutting but bear in mind that the road access ramp would have to be useable by horse and carts, I would try and make it less steep. Dragging a loaded coal cart up for local delivery up the ramp as you show it would be a major task. I'd also suggest a bit more width to allow for the carts to get around, load and turn etc.
Regards

[Noel]

Following on from Keith's comment about horses and carts, it was usual to allow enough room between tracks to enable a horse and cart to turn round. This did need less space than a rigid lorry, hence Scammell's mechanical horse and trailer as a replacement for the horse and cart in confined spaces.

I assume that you were thinking of a wall at the right hand end? Why not create a backscene with the road access on it, going off to the right? This would allow for the bufferstops, which would otherwise shorten the sidings, or block all road access to the front tracks, unless you intend to use inset track?

[steamraiser]

If practical I would add another 3 inches on the width of the layout.

This would allow you to have more working space around the sidings and widen your access ramp for two way traffic.

Gordon A

[garethashenden]

Thanks everyone for your input. I've decided to stretch the layout to 48x15. I've also tweaked the track plan a bit to give more space between the tracks. Most of the new space will be between the tacks and the retaining wall to give more space for carts and horses. The ramp will be extended so that it is less steep.

[Terry Bendall]

There are quite a lot of examples of goods yards which were paved in some way, often using setts which went up to the rails and often between them as well which allow more space for carts and later of course motor vehicles to move about . Another tip is to put two adjacent sidings fairly close together on one side but allow space on the other for vehicles. The Railway Operations books by Bob Essery have pictures of such layouts.

Terry Bendall

[Armchair Modeller]

Some London goods yards were squeezed into non-ideal sites and used unconventional ideas to get around the problems. Wagon hoists, road vehicles pulled up ramps by rope, platform for goods to be manhandled to road vehicles in bays nearby, capstans and wagon turntables were all used in restricted areas. You could also imagine your model as a small corner of a much larger yard, where most of the facilities were off-scene.

[garethashenden]

Here's the new trackplan, a refinement of the old one. There is more access to the middle track now, and all the tracks have been lengthened a bit.


I rebuilt the model with a wider and shallower ramp, more space behind the tracks, and an extra house.

[jim s-w]

Might be nice to raise the retaining wall and bridge but have the ramp go through another opening in the bridge. I dunno why but I think it might just look nice and a bit more interesting. The bridge doesn't have to carry a road, how about an industrial canal?

Cheers

Jim

[garethashenden]

Might be nice to raise the retaining wall and bridge but have the ramp go through another opening in the bridge. I dunno why but I think it might just look nice and a bit more interesting. The bridge doesn't have to carry a road, how about an industrial canal?

Cheers

Jim

A canal would be cool, and I'd like to model one at some point. But I'm not really sure there's room on this layout, and a road scene is something I want to model.

[grovenor-2685]

Besides, canals going over the railway is much more of a Birmingham thing than North London.
Regards

[garethashenden]

I've made some progress finally:

Got a baseboard made, with some professional help from my father.


Started laying sleepers and ballast. Didn't use enough glue on the first section, but the others are looking better.

[Noel]

Railway goods yards were places where both men and horses worked at ground level. The H & SE hadn't been thought of when they were built, but, even so, safety was an issue, and normal ballast does not give a safe footing. Roadways usually came up to the ends of the sleepers, and in small or busy yards the track itself was often inset [cobbles, brick, later repairs in concrete or tarmac or whatever was available] to enable vehicles to manoeuver around the yard more easily. If it was not inset, the sidings might be 'blinded' with fine stone to provide a surface which could be walked on. Even if this was not done, the track would not be ballasted to main line standards. Photographs mostly show a sort of solidified sludge, with occasional bits of stone visible. Track would normally be second or third hand, replaced infrequently, and new ballast supplied only if repairs were required.

[garethashenden]

Railway goods yards were places where both men and horses worked at ground level. The H & SE hadn't been thought of when they were built, but, even so, safety was an issue, and normal ballast does not give a safe footing. Roadways usually came up to the ends of the sleepers, and in small or busy yards the track itself was often inset [cobbles, brick, later repairs in concrete or tarmac or whatever was available] to enable vehicles to manoeuver around the yard more easily. If it was not inset, the sidings might be 'blinded' with fine stone to provide a surface which could be walked on. Even if this was not done, the track would not be ballasted to main line standards. Photographs mostly show a sort of solidified sludge, with occasional bits of stone visible. Track would normally be second or third hand, replaced infrequently, and new ballast supplied only if repairs were required.

Thanks Noel, I don't know what happened to my mind, of course it wouldn't be ballasted like that. I think I'll go for cobbles on the sidings and fine ballast/assorted muck near the points and at the entrance. Thanks for pointing it out before I went too far.

[Noel]

I think I should possibly have said setts [flat blocks] rather than cobbles.

[Guy Rixon]

I've noticed two approaches to inset yard track.

In one approach, the infill is at rail-head level both between and outside the running rails. Continuous checkrails restrain the infill in the 4-foot and maintain flangeways. This seems to be the proper way to do it, especially when the infill is tarmac.

In the other approach, the infill in the 4-foot is lower by enough to clear the flanges and does up to the rails. I've seen the latter done both with setts and with blinding. Of course, this kind of track can't be modelled properly unless the flanges are to scale (</smug>).

[Mark Tatlow]

I would say that stone ballast was fairly unlikely at the turn of the century in a goods yard. Ash ballast would be much more likely and this presents a smooth (but not always level) finish, so it does not give the trip issue that Noel has mentioned.

You should also look at contemporary photographs, there is a good chance that the ballast would have come up to or close to the rail head. The stone sets for the roadway are likely to as well.

[garethashenden]

Thanks guys. My terminology wasn't as exact as I meant. I said "ballast" meaning the stuff around the sleepers, rather than crushed stone specifically. I've used Woodland Scenics cinders so far. I'll add setts at about rail height after the tracklaying has been finished.

Speaking of tracklaying:

[Paul Willis]

Thanks guys. My terminology wasn't as exact as I meant. I said "ballast" meaning the stuff around the sleepers, rather than crushed stone specifically. I've used Woodland Scenics cinders so far. I'll add setts at about rail height after the tracklaying has been finished.

Hi Gareth,

One of the advantages of modelling the Great Eastern in Edwardian days is that there is a huge archive of period photographs taken around 1911. It's in the possession of the GERS and is called the Windwood Collection. There are also a number of these images that have escaped onto the web.

These two links are for period photos of goods yards so that you can see the fine granularity of the ground cover, and particularly on one of them how the surface is built up to the rail height. Have a look to the right side of the image of the T18 with the agricultural wagons.

http://spellerweb.net/rhindex/UKRH/OtherRailways/SpaldingStn.jpg

https://basilicafields.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/t18_gs-wagon-train.jpg

I'll be making another post later with some details of a new ballast supplier that will be perfect for creating this sort of effect...

Cheers
Flymo

[Noel]

The photo of Spalding isn't of a goods yard, as there is no road access to the tracks. I think this is most likely a set of storage sidings for stock awaiting further use, which would explain the odd combination of horse boxes and single bolsters. The compaction of the surface where staff have been walking between the tracks is very clear.

[Paul Willis]

The photo of Spalding isn't of a goods yard, as there is no road access to the tracks. I think this is most likely a set of storage sidings for stock awaiting further use, which would explain the odd combination of horse boxes and single bolsters. The compaction of the surface where staff have been walking between the tracks is very clear.

Yes, it was more the nature of the surface that I was highlighting, rather than the specific location itself.

Despite this period being a long time before the days of Elf 'n' Satan, the practical arrangements for ensuring the relative safety of staff were in place. There is a lot of authentic detail about this period that can be learned just by studying the background to images rather than the primary subject matter itself.

Cheers
Flymo

[garethashenden]

I've got back to this and just about finished the tracklaying. Two point blades and two closure rails are all that's left. I'm about to start the wiring and the turnout mechanisms. Since there are only two points, I'm going to try Blue Point switch machines. They're very similar to Tortoises, but are driven by a push rod rather than an electric motor. Those are on order and should be here in a couple of days.

Here are a bunch of recent pictures.




The ground around and between these tracks will be filled in with setts, with ash ballast around the points and entrance.



Hope to have trains running by the end of the weekend.

[Ian Everett]

Thanks everyone for your input. I've decided to stretch the layout to 48x15. I've also tweaked the track plan a bit to give more space between the tracks. Most of the new space will be between the tacks and the retaining wall to give more space for carts and horses. The ramp will be extended so that it is less steep.

I seem to have missed this thread somehow until now, which is a shame because it looks a lovely project - and it neatly fits into the Standard Gauge Workbench parameters!

One point about track with sett inserts - the chairs are usually invisible so the track can be modeled using rail soldered to copper-clad sleepers - much quicker and simpler than Brook-Smith.

Ian

[garethashenden]

Thanks everyone for your input. I've decided to stretch the layout to 48x15. I've also tweaked the track plan a bit to give more space between the tracks. Most of the new space will be between the tacks and the retaining wall to give more space for carts and horses. The ramp will be extended so that it is less steep.

I seem to have missed this thread somehow until now, which is a shame because it looks a lovely project - and it neatly fits into the Standard Gauge Workbench parameters!

One point about track with sett inserts - the chairs are usually invisible so the track can be modeled using rail soldered to copper-clad sleepers - much quicker and simpler than Brook-Smith.

Ian

Yeah, I could have done copper-clad, but I was fairly far along before I realised that, so just kept going. I'll add in some ash ballast around the chairs to mostly, but not completely, bury them.

[garethashenden]

What is the correct spacing for switchblades? Michael Godfrey's article on stretcher rods came at just the right time for this layout, but it just says "held at the correct distance". I had a look through the digests on trackbuiding, but I didn't see anything there either.