Canonbury Goods: NLR c.1903

[Ian Everett]

What is the correct spacing for switchblades? Michael Godfrey's article on stretcher rods came at just the right time for this layout, but it just says "held at the correct distance". I had a look through the digests on trackbuiding, but I didn't see anything there either.

One of the beauties of P4 is that Scalefour stores supply jigs and gauges which largely obviate the need to measure flangeways etc. For switchblades the appropriate gauge is the Multigauge - item 197 on the stores page http://www.scalefour.org/members/stores/shops.php.

Ian

[garethashenden]

What is the correct spacing for switchblades? Michael Godfrey's article on stretcher rods came at just the right time for this layout, but it just says "held at the correct distance". I had a look through the digests on trackbuiding, but I didn't see anything there either.

One of the beauties of P4 is that Scalefour stores supply jigs and gauges which largely obviate the need to measure flangeways etc. For switchblades the appropriate gauge is the Multigauge - item 197 on the stores page http://www.scalefour.org/members/stores/shops.php.

Ian

Excellent! I have one of those. Thanks!

[garethashenden]

Bufferstops! The North London seems to have used wooden bufferstops, rather than rail-built ones. It looks like the bufferbeam is the same as NLR wagons, 8' long and curved ends. The rest of the dimensions are estimated, but look right.

Everything is made from basswood, either 1/4"x1/8" or 3/16"x3/16". I cut out the parts for one, made sure they looked right, then cut out the parts for the other two. I then stained all the parts and glued them together.

Parts for one:


All the parts stained:


The first one installed:



The other two:


All Three:

[garethashenden]

Procrastinating on finishing the track has lead to me starting on the scenery. The bridge at the left seemed a logical place to start. I used foam board as a base with Slaters brick sheet. The abutments are 0.080" clad in brick.

Two pictures, raw and painted with yellow ocher.

[garethashenden]

I have finally finished the track and wiring! Sometime when it's not raining I'll take the layout outside and paint the track. Once that's done I'll get onto the rest of the scenery. The setts are probably where I'll start, or I may finish the bridge. We shall see.

[garethashenden]

I have started with the setts. Originally I had planned to lay them flat with little detail. After thinking about this for a while I realised that that wasn't the best way to do it. It occurred to me that with the horses and all some drainage was in order. In the space between tracks 1 and 2 I decided on a gutter running the length of the sidings. I am using Wills setts, and each sheet has two sides with larger curbs. I cut these off and used them, three wide, to form the gutter. It is laid on a sheet of plasticard with the outer two rows of stone elevated on 30 thou strip.



Once this was finished I started cutting the setts to fit. I have so far cut two sections and fitted them to the gutter. I have also cut a piece to fit between the rails on the first track. It will need to be narrowed slightly to provide the adequate flangeway clearance.




None of this is yet attached to the layout and probably won't be until it has been painted.

[RobM]

You may have already done so but make sure the setts are slightly below rail level to allow for track cleaning.........I have to constantly touch up small areas on Manston Brewery where the setts were a little proud.....
Rob

[garethashenden]

As I've been working on the setts I've been thinking about the front center of the layout. This area has always been a bit up in the air as to what would go there. It could be more setts, it could be dirt, or it could be something more substantial. I had originally tried to fit in an end loading dock, so that I could have an excuse to feature loaded machine trucks, but there wasn't sufficient room. It has occurred to me recently however that I could have a platform, or at least part of a platform, at the front of the layout. It would have a ramp down at the right hand end, and maybe a small crane at the left? With this on my mind I mocked it up from foam board and card. The curve isn't quite right and it's too close to the track, but it gives an idea.
The layout was originally conceived as having the four track mainline off scene but immediately in front of what is on scene. That's still what I have in mind, but if that is the case then this may not be the best place for the platform. I would appreciate input on the looks, realism, and practicality of putting the platform here. It would be quite some time before the layout is expanded, and it may never happen, so that may shape things as well.

Here is the overall scene currently


With the platform in place


And from the other end


What do you think?

[Noel]

A platform at the front provides a little extra security against vehicles being knocked onto the floor, and adds to the interest, so why not? The platform would be about 3ft above the railhead, I think [drop doors when dropped would slope gently downwards to the platform] as you can't open swing doors otherwise. The access ramp would normally only be a very gentle slope, I believe; a horse has to be able to get a loaded wagon up onto the platform. Alternatively the platform could have a set of steps for personnel access, with wagons being backed up to the wider end of the platform for (un)loading. If the 4 track main line is an issue then the platform would probably have a [nice panelled] brick wall on the main line side for safety. At 4/5ft it wouldn't greatly obstruct the view.

[Phil O]

I believe most goods platforms are 3 ft 6 ins above the railhead, GW ones are according to the loading gauge info that I have seen. Passenger platforms started off somewhat lower, but for a long time now they should be 3ft with a tolerance of +1inch.

Phil

[Mark Tatlow]

Hi Gareth

Can I recommend that you don't butt sheets of the Wills stone sets up to each other as you have done, the joint is fairly obvious and no amount of painting will get over this.

What I do with their sheets is to cut them at either end along the mortar lines such that you get a dog tooth arrangement at the end. Repeat with the adjacent sheet and ensure that the two interlink such that they bond together without any straight lines.

Not as difficult as it sounds and small gaps can be made up with filler. The article in an MRJ a couple of issues advocated a similar approach.

[Noel]

I believe most goods platforms are 3 ft 6 ins above the railhead, GW ones are according to the loading gauge info that I have seen

Agreed, my mistake.

[dal-t]

I'd second Mark's comments on the Wills paving, it is a bit of a faff cutting out the bond but it does make a world of difference. This begs the question, though, did Wills ever have any serious intention that the sheets should actually be used? It would have been easy enough for them to mould in joining features (much easier to cut back to a straight edge when wanted, rather than have to fret out the dog's tooths), and they could have used a thickness of plastic that would cut without an industrial-strength Stanley knife (I seem to remember Faller achieve the depth in their sheets with a thinner surface and ribs underneath, but of course they are HO).

[Mark Tatlow]

No need to use and industrial strength stanley knife (which I agree is required if you cut it with a blade).

Get some no 6 piercing saw blades from Eileens and use a piercing saw. No 6 blades are pretty course and they do not clog up with plastic. As a result, the plastic does not melt such that they fuse with the work piece - been there, done that!

[jim s-w]

I don't know if this is the case but the special shaped blocks against the rail don't seem like the way things would be done to me. I might be wrong but I would imagine it would be easier to use full blocks against the rail and custom blocks somewhere else

Cheers

Jim

[jon price]

I have seen rail with carefully laid edges as Jim says, but these photos from Belfast show that really anything seems to be OK

belfast sets.jpg

belfast sets 2.jpg

[garethashenden]

Thanks for your thoughts. I've been laying the setts with the intention of going back and filling in gaps, both at the rails and between the sheets, with milliput. I think that is still a necessary step, but I will start cutting the sheets before laying them. I'll also go back and reread the MRJ article.

If setts are being used at ground level would it be expected that they would also be found on the platform or would something larger and smoother be used? I'm envisaging brick walls supporting the platform with both horse drawn carts and handtrucks being used.

[dal-t]

I have seen rail with carefully laid edges as Jim says, but these photos from Belfast show that really anything seems to be OK

Those shots do look convincing, but having seen 'before' and 'after' shots of "preserved" inset track elsewhere, I'd be very wary of basing anything on it - modern-day paving contractors seem programmed to automatically dig everything up, then lay the new surface fitting the 'preserved" bits back as convenient, without much concern for reproducing any sort of authentic layout.

[garethashenden]

I'll add to the discussion this picture taken on the Great Eastern approaching Fenchurch Street. The track on the right curves down towards St. Katharine's Dock.


It's not entirely equivalent to my project, but it does show inset track in the era I'm modelling.

[RobM]

When I did the setts on Manston Brewery I did look at Wills sheets and having bought them soon dismissed them as they would not follow a curve.
In the end I cast the individual setts and 'glued' them in place.....all 10,000+!! But to your scenario.....if you have stuck down the sheets you could disguise the but joints by cutting out a narrow section and inserting a row of the longer setts similar to those which you have used for the drainage, this would stop the eye from being drawn to the but joint which I don't think you could disguise with any amount of filler. If you are able to remove the sections it may well look better if you laid the setts at 90 degree to the track and in the curved sections fan the setts by reducing a bit of the mortar join at one end and filling at the other. Your photo shows the setts laid at 90 degrees.....
Hope the helps
Rob

[Paul Townsend]

Agreed, my mistake.

[Terry Bendall]

In the end I cast the individual setts and 'glued' them in place.....all 10,000+!!

An alternative method for this job is to use DAS or something similar and then scribe the sets. Possibly quicker than laying them individually.

Terry Bendall

[Lindsay G]

I don't remember the cobbling of Burntisland 1883 being very quick but it was worth it. (Yes, Rob, some of cobbles were a bit high and suffered from track cleaning - lesson learnt).

Lindsay

Burntisland cobbles.jpg

[allanferguson]

Cobbles (or Cassies in some parts). I wonder whether we might have amongst us a retired roads engineer who might comment on this. In my youth in Glasgow many streets were cobbled, and always those where tram lines ran. In later years many streets were tarmaced at the sides, but the tram lines were always laid in cobbles. Cobbles always followed the line of rails, and if there were no rails they followed the line of the street. There was always a row of cobbles along the outside edge of the track, and if these merged with a row in a different direction or on a different curve the merge was done somewhere in the middle (this is why Wills sheets almost never look right). It is very difficult to cut cobblestones to fit into awkward corners, and this was avoided as far as possible. The small size of cobbles meant that they could easily be laid round curves, the angled gaps being accommodated by the tarred joins.

Another feature almost never modelled is the use of longitudinal slabs to provide a smoother passage for iron tyred wheels. Pushing a hand barrow may be almost impossible over ordinary cobbles, and these longitudinal slabs would often be provided to ease the passage of horse carts.

Jamaica Bridge.jpg

Allan F

[garethashenden]

In the end I cast the individual setts and 'glued' them in place.....all 10,000+!!

An alternative method for this job is to use DAS or something similar and then scribe the sets. Possibly quicker than laying them individually.

Terry Bendall

I'm increasing thinking that Das is the solution to this problem.