Brettell Road

Tell us about your layout, where you put it, how you built it, how you operate it.
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jim s-w
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby jim s-w » Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:06 pm

As I've mentioned in the past I am trying to not add to the wagon roster for Brettell Road, rather just trying to finish off the un-started and partially started kits I already have. Although one or 2 new ones have snuck in to the to-do pile somehow. Heres the latest to find their way off my workbench.

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2 such culprits - a Diagram 1828 van from the Cambrian kit and a Bachmann 7 plank wagon. The 7 plank wagon was introduced a few Warley's ago as the clubs special wagon. Being a Brierley Hill wagon and. according to the info that comes with it, based at Moor lane Wharf (where Brettell Road is very loosely based), it seemed rude not to.

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3 Tunnys from the old Colin Ashby Kits with Parkside underframes. I uses some Rumney Models Grampus bits to add the steps and door bangers. The furthest one (in green) is an older model that i built years ago for New Street which I upgraded at the same time.

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LMS built (for the LNER) ARM E wagon from the Cambrian Salmon bogies and half of the floor. The rest is plastic strip with some Rumney Models and Colin Criag detailing bits thrown in.

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A couple of steel wagons. Bogie bolster E from Lima, Rumney and Cambrian. Made sense to finish this off at the same time as the Turbots (see the New Street workbench). The Plate is from Parkside.
Finally, below, is the completed engineers train.

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Le Corbusier
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby Le Corbusier » Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:42 pm

[quote="jim s-w"]Image
I don't know if it is just me .... and I know we are meant to be looking at rolling stock, but I find the soft landscaping scenic modelling on all of this fantastic .
Tim Lee

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jim s-w
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby jim s-w » Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:08 pm

Thanks Tim

glad you like it

Jim

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jim s-w
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby jim s-w » Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:10 pm

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Ok, it seems a little odd to start a post on wagonloads with a couple of vans but they do give away subtle signs that they are actually earning money and not just trundling around.  Chalk markings and labels are the give-away here.  The chalk markings are done with a sharp chinagraph pencil which allows you to smudge them and rub them out. Much as could be found on the real thing. The labels are from Hollar Models and can be distressed with a scalpel or fibreglass brush before applying. 

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The easiest loads are the loose ones such as coal, ore, ballast etc. This is real coal glued to a foam former (the dark foam in RTR loco packing is ideal). Remember to weather the inside of the wagon first though. 

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One loose load I struggled a little with was coke. In the end I used larger lumps of coal but when set sprayed it with gunmetal to give the dull look coke has. 

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Sheeted loads tend to come in 2 forms. Above the load is sheeted as a stand alone item.  This was a cheap load i found on ebay. 

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The second form is that the load is added to the wagon and then the load and the wagon itself is sheeted over. These are more cheap loads from Ebay which were quite crude. The sheeting is black latex cut from a surgical glove. 

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Sometimes the load is just open to the elements. This is a drawbar converter from Langley Models.

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Finally, sometimes the load is a wagon itself. An RT Models molten slag wagon loaded onto a Lowmac and ARM-E

Andrew Ullyott
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby Andrew Ullyott » Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:02 pm

A very impressive selection Jim

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Lord Colnago
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby Lord Colnago » Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:39 pm

Lovely stuff Jim. Lot of inspiration there.

John.
The second best priest

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Le Corbusier
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby Le Corbusier » Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:34 pm

Will Brettell Road becoming out to play again anytime in the near future? Would love to see it again ... particularly if I could get nearer than last time :D
Tim Lee

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jim s-w
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby jim s-w » Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:55 pm

Thnaks Chaps

It’s out in a few weeks at Cradely Heath

Next year it will be at DEMU (but with a diesel bias) after that see http://www.p4newstreet.com/upcoming-shows

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Guy Rixon
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby Guy Rixon » Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:40 am

Black latex cut from a glove: it looks very good. Does it have to be coerced into shape or does it drape naturally?

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jim s-w
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby jim s-w » Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:59 pm

It’s pretty natural but I did glue bits of it to the load to get the look I wanted

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jim s-w
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby jim s-w » Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:00 pm

Just a reminder

For those in the Midlands, Brettell Road is out this Saturday at the Cradley Heath exhibition

Cradley Heath Community Centre
Reddal Hill Road
Cradley Heath
West Midlands
B64 5JG
Car Park Post Code: B64 5JY

Admission:
Adult: £5.00
Child (Age 4-14): £2.50
Child (Under 4): Free
Family (2 Adults + up to 2 Children): £11.00
No Unaccompanied Children Please

Please say hi if you are going

Jim

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jim s-w
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby jim s-w » Sun Feb 03, 2019 9:54 pm

I've mentioned before that Brettell road is a 'what if' layout and that extends to the stock as well. So what if the NBL class 21s were trialed in the Midlands? It's not a huge leap to make from reality really and its reported that they did appear on the Condor's occasionally (anyone got any pictures of this?). I've always had a passing interest in the Hornby class 29 as its melancholy look seemed to stand out from the other diesels in their catalogue as a kid. I never had one though so why not get one now? I prefer the original look of the class 21 to the re-engined class 29 so that's the plan. The Hornby model has bits of both. (I know about the upcoming Dapol model but I figured going this way would be more fun!)

The Prototype

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©53A models of Hull Collection, used with kind permission.

Although the class 21 and class 22 became something of an irrelevance in the history of British locomotives their story does hold a bit of interest. NBL could have been said to be at least as experienced in British loco production as anyone else at the time with their LMS commissioned prototype 10800 and the class 16s which shared a strong resemblance. Both were powered by Paxman engines and both were somewhat problematic.
When it came to type 2 units (or type B at the time) they abandoned the Paxman power unit turning to their own built MAN units, built under licence from Germany.It's not clear if NBL actually had any real experience in building these engines at the time and to say they were somewhat disastrous wouldn't be far from the truth. NBL would return to Paxman to repower some of the class 21s and they would be class 29. Truth is they were little better. Poor cooling and badly laid out equipment only made matters worse for the class.

Where they do hold an interest is in that the class 21's were diesel electric while the class 22's were diesel hydraulic. If they hadn't have been so problematic then a reasonable comparison of the 2 propulsion types would have resulted. This was the only opportunity for main line locos in the UK to be so directly compared. The 2 classes look very similar with the class 21s being just a smidge under 5 feet longer and at least to my eye, looking more 'designed'

D6109 the odd one out.
D6109 became the odd one out of the true class 21s having received most of the body modifications for conversion to a class 29 but not the Paxman engine (reportedly down to problems discovered in the frames). So D6109 became the only class 21 to get a headcode box.  Interestingly there was one class 29 that didn't but got all the other modifications.

The Model as it comes.
Being reasonably unfamiliar with the real thing some time has been spent comparing the model to pictures of the real loco and I've drawn up a (quite long) list of things I think are off.
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A - I think the peak of the roof is wrong - it looks flatter on the real locos. Also the rib behind it doesn't seem as prominent as it is on the model.
B - The water fillers seem the wrong shape and are missing from one side completely/ the handrail next to it is too long.
C - The bodyside steps seem a bit too round and are too shallow.
D - Ignoring the moulded fan/etch thing for a moment. the whole panel with the radiator fan on is in the wrong place. It should like up with the bodyside grills.
E - There's a lot of rivet detail on the model. It's too heavy and I am not convinced it's all really there on the prototype.
F - As with all Hornby diesels from this era there are moulded on paint guidelines.
G - I think the lower faring tucks under the loco more than it does on the model.
H - Wheels are too small and should be spoked not solid.
I - Central part of the lower bodyside faring looks a lot deeper than the prototype. It looks more like a class 31! I wonder if this was deliberate to compensate for the body being mounted too high as was the norm for Hornby models of the time?
J - Battery box detail is kind of suggested at best.
K - Bodyside door windows aren't deep enough - they should line up with the bottom of the other bodyside windows. The lower bodyside rib goes across the door on the model - it doesn't on the real loco.
L - Bodyside grills arent deep enough, they too should line up with the bottom of the bodyside windows.
M - Bogies look a bit filled in to me. Brake shoes don't line up with the wheels (again common with Hornby diesels from the era.)
N - Steps under the doors are a bit freelance.
O - Bufferbeams blend into the lower bodyside - there's a distinctive shape to these visible on the prototype.
P - Buffers and bufferbeam are too high.
Q - lower cab front isn't deep enough
R - Horn covers are a bit basic
S - Cab end lights are very basic too! the upper ones are too near the cab edges.
T - More moulded on paint lines. the lines for the doors stand out. they should be grooves.
U - Headcode box - not on a class 21 (except D6109 as mentioned above.
V - Its well-known that the cab windows are not wide enough. I don't think they are right vertically either. The prototype seems a pretty even height all the way along. Hornby's are taller in the middle.
In addition the exhaust port is the wrong shape and somewhat freelance.

So, to work
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Side views compared. Woking down from the roof I've replaced the exhaust and flattened the cabs a bit.  The radiator grill was cut out as an offset before turning it around and sticking it back in so that it now lines up.
The bodyside steps have been drilled out and the handhold replaced (not really worth the effort with hindsight) and the bottom of the grill frames carved off to be replaced with microstrip. The bottom faring has been reduced (the white strip is where I took a bit too much off).
Power wise the model uses a Bachmann class 25 chassis with the bogie centers spaced out by about a mm each end. I kept the original Bachmann brakes and overlaid the Hornby sideframes after opening them up a bit. The original battery box was shortened and mounted in a new plasticard frame.
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The cab fronts have been detailed with Extreme Etches window frames and headcode disks. The bottom of the can being extended and the original detail filed off. I scored the inside of the tumblehome and bent it in further to match the prototype pictures. The bufferbeams being cut off first and rebuilt.Hopefully a bit warmer weather and i can get it painted.

Terry Bendall
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby Terry Bendall » Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:19 am

jim s-w wrote:I've drawn up a (quite long) list of things I think are off.


So not a lot to change really. :D :D

Some very nice work Jim which shows what is needed to get it all right.

Terry Bendall

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Noel
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby Noel » Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:14 pm

jim s-w wrote: ... the NBL class 21s ... its reported that they did appear on the Condor's occasionally (anyone got any pictures of this?)


Curious, this. The Cromptons were allocated to Derby and Cricklewood before they were exiled to Barrow, and their replacements on the Condor were Class 24s; the Condor was always worked by LMR locos, except, possibly, for failures in Scotland. When The ER gave up on the Class 21s [which had been on GN and GE lines north and east of London] they went to Kittybrewster and Eastfield, to work on the lines north and east of Glasgow, Eastfield being the former NB shed [and close to the builder's works]. It seems reasonable to assume that failures in Scotland would have been replaced by something from Polmadie, rather than Eastfield. Trials are a possibility, perhaps, but that would have involved a further problem of driver familiarity with the locos performance, and their potential faults and what to do about them.
Regards
Noel

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jim s-w
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby jim s-w » Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:55 pm

Hi Noel

You have similar thoughts to mine. I believe they were substituting for failures but would be interested in some definitive proof.

Cheers

Jim

waveydavey
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby waveydavey » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:25 am

Are you not changing the two bodyside radiator grills for the later single ones Jim?
They were changed very early in the locos lives.
Modelling Clackmannanshire Railways in 1975
http://waveydaveysmodelmuddle.wordpress.com/

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jim s-w
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby jim s-w » Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:32 pm

Nope. I like the early ones and I don’t think Dapol plan to do them on theirs.

You would need bufferbeam steps then too.

Cheers

Jim

Philip Hall
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby Philip Hall » Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:57 pm

By chance I recently came across one of the first articles I ever wrote (Model Railway Constructor) getting on for forty years ago now which was how I had ‘improved’ the new Hornby Class 29. I did things like lowering it and removing the bonkers off-centre trailing bogie support which caused it to lean over to one side, as well as putting the windscreens right. It ran quite well, and I thought it was not bad looking, and thought so on re-reading the article. Until, that is, I saw your list of what is wrong with it! If only I had known then what I know now.

Actually I might well have not started! And of course in those days I was still working in 00; even experiments in EM were a while away. So I’m really looking forward to seeing what you make of it, Jim. Hopefully it will be finished in the green livery which I always think suits these early engines so well?

Philip

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jim s-w
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby jim s-w » Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:06 pm

Image

My class 21 project is now finished. Above is a before and after comparison. Not a lot more to add really so here are a selection of images.

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Dave Holt
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby Dave Holt » Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:18 pm

Jim,
That's quite a transformation - toy to model. Now actually looks like a real loco.
Dave.

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Mark Tatlow
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby Mark Tatlow » Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:45 pm

I assume you put in a kill button to ensure that it breaks down regularly?

.............getting it all right and all that!
Mark Tatlow

Tony Wilkins
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby Tony Wilkins » Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:58 pm

Noel wrote:
jim s-w wrote: ... the NBL class 21s ... its reported that they did appear on the Condor's occasionally (anyone got any pictures of this?)


Curious, this. The Cromptons were allocated to Derby and Cricklewood before they were exiled to Barrow, and their replacements on the Condor were Class 24s; the Condor was always worked by LMR locos, except, possibly, for failures in Scotland. When The ER gave up on the Class 21s [which had been on GN and GE lines north and east of London] they went to Kittybrewster and Eastfield, to work on the lines north and east of Glasgow, Eastfield being the former NB shed [and close to the builder's works]. It seems reasonable to assume that failures in Scotland would have been replaced by something from Polmadie, rather than Eastfield. Trials are a possibility, perhaps, but that would have involved a further problem of driver familiarity with the locos performance, and their potential faults and what to do about them.

I think you mean the Crossley Metrovick Co-Bos rather than the Cromptons (which to me means class 33s).
The Co-Bos were well known for their early exploits on the Condor train. In my researches, I have not come across any references to NBL 21s being employed on it, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they weren't.

I have to compliment Jim on the conversion work on his 21. The amount of work needed to produce anything like an accurate model of the real thing from the Hornby model has been a major deterrent from my even attempting it.
Regards
Tony.

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Noel
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby Noel » Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:34 pm

Tony Wilkins wrote:I think you mean the Crossley Metrovick Co-Bos rather than the Cromptons


Yes. No clue why I wrote Cromptons. :?
Regards
Noel

Philip Hall
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby Philip Hall » Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:38 am

Quite superb Jim. Really looks like one.

Philip

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PeteT
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby PeteT » Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:18 pm

Lovely 21 Jim! Was it the 2nd Condor (from Aston) that these might have been used on? Or the main Hendon route?

As others have said, it generally seems to have been MetVik Co-Bos initially, and 24s from 1961 (with the Aston route starting in 1963 so 24s from the start). The only other locos I had seen reference to before were steam as failure replacements, but had a quick look online and did find one other reference of interest:

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index ... -pre-1960/

In (I think) the summer of 1959, while spotting the WD 2-8-0's on the General Terminus ore trains at Langside Junction, I spotted ex LMS 10001 in black and silver on the up Condor freight. No camera, unfortunately, and I didn't take a lot of interest in diesels then; but I recognised that one!
Allan F


So doesn't add a class 21 to the Condor roster, but a bit of variety nonetheless!

Edited to add that other sources say that by 1959 10001 was not black and silver...


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