Brettell Road

Tell us about your layout, where you put it, how you built it, how you operate it.
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jim s-w
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby jim s-w » Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:20 pm

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I decided that the track in my little yard looked too neat so I have attacked it with some powder paint (rubbed in with a finger then sealed with Klear) and some weeds. I'm much happier with how it looks now. 

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This is a first for me, not that i've never built a weighbridge before (Although I haven't) but i've never actually built a kit building before. When I was a kid my dad built some for me, usually Airfix kits and Linka, but all my buildings have been scratchbuilt up to now. So in the interests of breaking new ground this is a Wills kit. I admit I filed off the panels on the end and rescribed the bricks and fancied a brick-built chimney but it is a kit. Oh and the guttering is bits of brass from Eileens!

Finally, you may have spotted earlier that Ive bedded in (most of) the abandoned warehouse, a few pictures follow:<

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Jim

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Noel
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby Noel » Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:01 pm

Jim, I assume that the line under the bridge is a goods line, so should it not be a small arm on the signal? I think full size LMS semaphores were for passenger lines. Either way, a signal implies a signal box, interlocking and protection of joining roads. so the presumably the sidings will be trapped and have signals to control access and exit? You could just remove the arm and leave the post, to show a downgraded line, with the traps fixed closed of course...

Noel
Regards
Noel

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jim s-w
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby jim s-w » Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:06 pm

Nope, abandoned passenger line. The signal would be a repeater and the other one would be the other side of the bridge. I ran the plan past a signaller so don't worry :)

The partially removed double slip has remnants of facing point locks and parts of the rodding for it are already in place. Exit from the yard is controlled by the box via a black and yellow ground disk.

Jim

David Knight
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby David Knight » Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:22 pm

That looks wonderfully derelict Jim, in a nice way of course ;)

Cheers,

David

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jim s-w
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby jim s-w » Fri Oct 16, 2015 6:53 pm

Thanks David.

I think derelict and dismal is all I can do!

Jim

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Flymo748
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby Flymo748 » Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:15 pm

jim s-w wrote:Thanks David.

I think derelict and dismal is all I can do!

Jim


Why does Birmingham New Street immediately spring to mind...

Cheers
Flymo
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk

Terry Bendall
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby Terry Bendall » Sat Oct 17, 2015 7:36 am

This is looking very nice indeed Jim. Having seen the progress I looked back to see when this started and found that it was August last year. Certainly a lot of progress in a fairly short space of time. How much we can do in our modelling does of course depend on the time that we have and the other demands on it but it is still remarkable in the time.

Terry Bendall

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jim s-w
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby jim s-w » Sat Oct 17, 2015 8:24 am

Thanks terry. I still do 40 hrs a week shift work (so night shifts mean no real time for anything else) but I don't watch much TV. I tend to do modelling while my wife is watching her programs.

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CDGFife
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby CDGFife » Sat Oct 17, 2015 10:19 am

jim s-w wrote: I tend to do modelling while my wife is watching her programs.


This sounds familiar! In our one telly household, Jacki gets her choice of program while I get to model in peace - what's known as a win-win ;)

Chris

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Noel
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby Noel » Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:04 pm

jim s-w wrote:Nope, abandoned passenger line. The signal would be a repeater and the other one would be the other side of the bridge. I ran the plan past a signaller so don't worry


Not worried, Jim, just interested in railway history and its effects on operation. Clearly, however, I didn't look back far enough in the thread before my last posting, for which apologies.

My rationale, for what it is worth, is that in the past, with the passenger line in operation, the sidings would have had to have been fitted with trap points to protect the passenger line, and the signals permitting exit from the sidings would both have been 'stop' signals since movement to the headshunt or the main line would both foul the passenger line. Given what appears to have been normal LMS practice, presumably either double ground signals or double vertically mounted subsidiary arms on a normal tubular post would have been used. A yellow ground signal would have no place in this scheme, and would have to be an alteration after closure of the passenger line.

By the 1960s the common carrier obligation had gone, the railways were no longer obliged to publish rates, and were free to price traffic as they wished. Less than wagonload traffic was distributed by road from a few major centres. In consequence many such small yards were seeing less and less use as traffic declined because of the poor economic position of heavy industry particularly, and other businesses going under or switching to road. Many such yards closed during the 1960s; whilst they remained open only essential changes were made, for obvious economic reasons.

The alterations to the double slip seem entirely reasonable to me in this context, I was just trying to suggest that the catchpoints would still have been there as well, just clipped closed, not removed, on the same logic as you applied to the double slip. The two stop signals at the yard exit would not then need to be altered, just a local instruction issued to change their effect for engineman plus some relatively minor changes to the box frame locking. Alternatively, if S & T had been on site to change the exit signalling [unlikely I submit], I would expect them to have salvaged the passenger line stop arm, if not the whole signal.

On one thing I would question your phrasing - stop signals were just that. They were not used as repeaters. A repeater would probably have been necessary, given the sighting problems presented by the bridge and the curve, but would have been an illuminated banner on the other side of the bridge, and I assume that this is what you meant.

I have been following this topic with interest, and, as with others who have commented, am impressed by the scenic effects you have achieved; will you be letting us have more details on techniques, or have you dealt with this somewhere else that I have missed?

Noel
Regards
Noel

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David B
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby David B » Tue Oct 20, 2015 10:45 am

Your weigh bridge reminded me of the attached which I bought a while ago, assembled and forgot. It is laser cut card from LCUT and cost £3.99. It's a dinky little number and went together very easily. Something else to paint!

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IMG_1125crw.jpg (92.05 KiB) Viewed 4413 times

IMG_1126crw.jpg
IMG_1126crw.jpg (85.28 KiB) Viewed 4413 times

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jim s-w
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby jim s-w » Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:04 pm

One hint researching new street has taught me is history doesn't follow neat lines. Let's say the abandoned line here was passenger then what Noel says makes a lot of sense, IF it was closed as a passenger line. But what if it was dowgraded to a freight line and they for cost and ease reasons left the old signals in place. What if then work was done in the yard and some track was relayed? when the line was abandoned it was literally just cut off and left. Or even mothballed and while they might go to the effort of removing signals, it's likely for cost that they just left them. It's unlikely they would want them for somewhere else.

This is actually far more likely than a neat should have been with all the correct bits changed to suit. Evidence of work happening in the yard can be seen by the lever for the first point being the same side as the others even if it was in the wrong place if the passenger line was open.

Cheers

Jim

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jim s-w
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby jim s-w » Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:08 pm

That looks quite nice David. I'd suggest the roof is a bit flat though and needs more relief in the tiles

Cheers

Jim

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David B
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby David B » Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:53 am

jim s-w wrote:I'd suggest the roof is a bit flat though and needs more relief in the tiles.


Yes, I agree on the relief. Individual tiles could be made for a roof this small. Overlapping strips would look better than the current roof.

Is the pitch too flat? I suppose it might depend on which part of the country and looking at some photos, there is variation. Larger structures, yes, but I am not so sure about quite small ones like this which are not much bigger than sheds.

Tim Horn
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby Tim Horn » Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:33 am

It's a shame it's modern stretcher bond brickwork though on an old building.

Cheers
Tim

Barnetby brick lineside hut 4mm window frame test fit TJH02 17th November 2013 Copyright Tim Horn.jpg
Barnetby brick lineside hut 4mm window frame test fit TJH02 17th November 2013 Copyright Tim Horn.jpg

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jim s-w
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby jim s-w » Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:36 am

David B wrote:
Is the pitch too flat?


Hi David.

No I meant the relief is too flat

Cheers

Jim

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Noel
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby Noel » Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:06 am

Ok, Jim, point taken. I just wanted to make the point that what you have 'now' in this sort of situation depends on what you started with when everything was in use, and what the minimum level of alteration needed to adapt to current use was, as economics would normally have precluded more than that minimum.

I still feel that the new ground signal and removal of the traps is beyond the minimum required, but will happily accept that there were always exceptions and you have your own viewpoint on this. We will just have to agree to differ. I still admire the standard, and output, of your modelling.

Regards, Noel
Regards
Noel

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jim s-w
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby jim s-w » Wed Oct 21, 2015 2:14 pm

Of course the trap and signal could always have been demolished in a mishap! Or the abandoned line might have never carried passengers and that signal replaced with a salvaged one from elsewhere. :) we've all probably seen a coach with a door that's a different livery at some point. What should be and what did are not always the same and to some extent the how it should have been can sometimes lead to a sterile result.

Did you get any further with your tanks project at all? My 2 are still sitting in a corner unsure what thier future is.

Jim

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jim s-w
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby jim s-w » Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:07 pm

Hi all.

Added some thoughts on the 12ton van to my website

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More at http://www.p4newstreet.com/variations-on-a-theme-2.html

Cheers

Jim

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Noel
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby Noel » Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:02 pm

jim s-w wrote:Did you get any further with your tanks project at all? My 2 are still sitting in a corner unsure what thier future is.Jim


Sadly, not yet. I have done virtually no modelling for about 10 months, life having rather got in the way. A house move was followed about three months later by the illness and death of my mother [age 96 so she did pretty well], and I am still dealing with sorting out her house contents, as she seems to have thrown very little away for the past 25 or so years...

Hopefully I will be back to at least some modelling soon, but the tanks may not be dealt with for a while as I would like to build a layout, never having done so in 30+ years of working in P4. I am also awaiting with interest the arrival of Bachmann's anchor mounted tanks, as, in theory, they may be easier to adapt. I will post some pictures once I have done the conversions [always assuming I don't make a complete *@@@@* of it....]

Noel
Regards
Noel

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jim s-w
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby jim s-w » Wed Oct 28, 2015 7:21 am

Sorry to hear about your mum Noel. I'll look forward to your words of wisdom on tanks when you get round to it

Jim

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jim s-w
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby jim s-w » Fri Oct 30, 2015 6:27 pm

Part of the plan for Brettell Road is to have an off scene steel works, the real Round Oak was (is) just down the line from the sidings at Moor Street. I plan to use the sidings at Brettell Road as an exchange sidings for this and I like the way that a lot of the uphill workings on the old Earl of Dudley's railway had the loco pushing trains up from the bottom of the hill so I want to replicate this on the model. My choice of motive power for these workings is the Yorkshire Engine company DE2 0-4-0 diesel shunter, of which Round Oak had a fleet and would be pretty new at the time of the model. Not that the loco's in such an environment stayed new for very long mind you.  Luckily Judith Edge do a kit and this week I set to work.

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The kit breaks down into 3 sub assemblies. The chassis, the footplate and the body. It all goes together pretty easily due to the good design of the kit. It has a simple rocking compensation built in and I decided to use it as supplied. The above picture shows the main soldering work complete with the fiddly details stage to come next.

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Losely assembled but not bolted together, I will be getting the chassis running with a high level gearbox and Mashima motor.

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Rear view. The kit provides a resin bonnet top and sandboxes along with a little cover for the handbrake which is mounted on the rear of the cab on the right hand side under the window. I cant find any evidence for this being on the Round Oak examples so I filled the recess for it with a bit of scrap etch and filed it smooth. You can just make it out in the picture.

There was a suggestion that these loco's first appeared at Round Oak in a plain Yellow livery but I cant find any evidence for this being the case. If anyone has any it would be much appreciated.

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jim s-w
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby jim s-w » Sun Nov 01, 2015 10:28 pm

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I can call the build stage of this project complete. The chassis is all wired up and runs and all the little fiddly bits are in place.

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David Knight
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby David Knight » Mon Nov 02, 2015 12:21 am

Jim, Nice build, looks like a really compact engine. Just out of curiosity, what purpose did the brackets below the buffers serve?

Cheers,

David

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jim s-w
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Re: Brettell Road

Postby jim s-w » Mon Nov 02, 2015 3:05 pm

Thanks David

The brackets are lifting points

HTH

Jim


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