Finally Made A Start in P4!

Tell us about your layout, where you put it, how you built it, how you operate it.
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CDGFife
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Re: Finally Made A Start in P4!

Postby CDGFife » Wed Aug 19, 2015 9:26 am

Terry Bendall wrote:
Knuckles wrote:The 3 way turnout interests me too as I'd like to build one at some point but it looks a bit scary. Most complex bit of rail I have done is a single slip and that took a lot of working out.


Building a three way turnout is probably no more difficult than doing a single slip.
Terry Bendall


I would echo this entirely. Prior to installation of this 3 way I had built nothing more complicated than a turnout! I've found it no more difficult, even with the whole lot being on a gentle curve - the crossing Vs are made in a similar manner and so are the points. It really was just a matter of breaking it down into the various bits of sub-assembly. Installation was pretty similar, just a matter of working out which sub-assembly to fix first and gauge off. With a bit of tweaking (I always seem to get the dropper wire holes slightly out of line!) the test (uncompensated) wagon was running through in all three directions at most un-prototypical speeds.

Actually the most difficulty I had was with the stretcher bars - again similar to the turnouts. Since mine are rods I'm epoxy glueing them into soldered sleeves on the blades. Ensuring no electrical conductivity is a bit of a pain but I want to avoid a sleeve in the middle of the rod!

CS-15-8-9.jpg
And here is the installed turnout.


Thanks all for the comments by the way - it's most encouraging. Hope you're not disappointed when you see the real thing!!

Cheers

Chris

RedDragon
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Re: Finally Made A Start in P4!

Postby RedDragon » Wed Aug 19, 2015 9:21 pm

Chris,

Can you supply a little more detail about your tiebars. What is the diameter of tubing you are soldering to the point blades, also what material are you using for the insulated tiebar itself that is glued into these tubes.

Thanks,

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Paul Townsend
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Re: Finally Made A Start in P4!

Postby Paul Townsend » Thu Aug 20, 2015 3:09 am

CDGFife wrote:Another busy week on the layout!

Also been busy working on the 3 way turnout:


Actually this is a tandem turnout with switches (blades) staggered and should be no harder than a pair of single turnouts, I found it so.
A true 3way turnout is a much different can of worms where the "blade tips" aka switches are all together, rarely used in prototype and rarely modelled...I have never attempted one.

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CDGFife
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Re: Finally Made A Start in P4!

Postby CDGFife » Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:20 am

Apologies - Paul is of course correct it's a tandem - In my defence I was blown off course by the help video title "3-Way Tandem" on the excellent Templot site ;) IN fact my (almost period) BR track design handbook calls a "3 way" a "three throw", but does as expected confirm that this is a tandem!

The stretcher bars are 0.4mm nickelsilver wire. The sleeves are 0.9mm OD 0.5mm ID brass tube.

CS-15-8-10.jpg
Still got the cleaning up of the epoxy to do but this at least shows the arrangement - it'll also look better once painted!


The method is as follows:

Prior to attaching the blade to the stock rail, 0.95mm holes are drilled into the point blade at the correct location for the stretcher bar
Once the blade is attached to the stock rail, I've been using the toe-end hole as a template to drill a 0.6mm hole in the stock rail
The brass sleeve is cut to length and soldered into the holes
A small length of 0.4mm nickel silver is soldered into the toe-end sleeve so that it just enters from the back (flat) face of the blade (i.e. does not fully block the sleeve!)and is long enough to protrude through the hole in the stock rail to give a little vertical location of the blade
The other (inside) end of the sleeve is then reamed out to 0.65mm ID and some epoxy adhesive (I've been using Evostik rapid) introduced into the tube and allowed to set
This is then drilled out to 0.45mm ID
This is all done on the bench prior to final installation
Once the one side of the stock rail/blade sub assembly is installed on the track base, the stretcher rods are formed to shape and, after a dry run to check size/shape, their ends dipped into Loctite 435 and allowed to set
The reminder of the turnout sub-assemblies are then gauged and fixed
Epoxy adhesive is added to the sleeves again and to the ends of the stretcher bars and the stretcher bars slid into place.
The track is checked at this point (before the epoxy goes off!) for electrical connectivity between everything that should not be connected!!! On one or two stretcher bar ends I've had to remove and re-coat to solve a contact issue but generally they've gone together surprisingly well.
Once set there is a little cleaning up of epoxy from the outside of the sleeves to do

Hope this is of interest!

Cheers

Chris
Last edited by CDGFife on Thu Aug 20, 2015 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Winander
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Re: Finally Made A Start in P4!

Postby Winander » Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:52 am

CDGFife wrote:Once the one side of the stock rail/blade sub assembly is installed on the track base, the stretcher rods are formed to shape and, after a dry run to check size/shape, their ends dipped into Loctite 435 and allowed to set


This looks great, thanks for taking the time to post it.

Am I correct in assuming that the purpose of the Loctite 435 is to insulate the rod end so that you are poking an insulated rod into an insulated sleeve and thus reducing the chances of an electrical connection? I am not familiar with Loctite 435 but after googling I see it is an instant adhesive. it may be worth editing your instructions as I imagine it is necessary to do the electrical tests before the adhesive cures :o

What size tube are you using - judging from the instructions is it 0.9mm OD and 0.4mm ID?

How do you propose to actuate the points, and, finally, do you have any experience of the resilience of this method of construction?

thanks
Richard

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CDGFife
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Re: Finally Made A Start in P4!

Postby CDGFife » Thu Aug 20, 2015 1:57 pm

I've definitely been doing the electrical continuity testing before the final epoxy has gone off. Apologies if that was not clear!

Actuation is a topic in itself! But here is how I'm doing it:

CS-15-8-12.jpg
Ambis etch RCON 4 is used as the connection soldered to both the stretcher and a 0.4mm nickel silver wire which is in turn connected via some 0.9mm OD brass tube (simulating the adjuster) to a crank. On some of my turnouts the first crank is on an axle that runs in a brass tube sleeve through the baseboard and is then server actuated........


CS-15-8-13.jpg
And on others the first crank connects to the rodding system which runs back to the final crank in front of the box which has the axle through the baseboard.


In terms of the electrical isolation resilience the first set of stretchers have been in place for around 12 months and although operation has not been heavy in that time I've not experienced any problems. As for actuation mechanical resilience, I've found it can be made reliable for small local runs but anything over say 600mm has proved to develop too much slop to work reliably. This of course could be down to the builder/fabricator and his tolerances! ;)

Cheers

Chris

Knuckles
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Re: Finally Made A Start in P4!

Postby Knuckles » Thu Aug 20, 2015 6:20 pm

Sweet, thanks Terry. I'll check it out when the time comes.

As n00by as I am with it, track building interests me a lot and the wee bit I did was thoroughly absorbing but until I start the 'proper' layout it will have to wait sadly. I could build some as set track and mesh them in later though. That might not appeal to some but even if I get my head around Templot I don't think building things in situe will be a good idea, not here anyway.

-

Good luck with the layout building.


EDIT --- I replied to Terry from the previous page, I didn't realise all the extra content on this page! Facinating indeed.
Point rodding is another thing I must try one day. Working point rodding? Eeeugh, I don't know, maybe the initial rod.
Last edited by Knuckles on Fri Aug 21, 2015 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Guy Rixon
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Re: Finally Made A Start in P4!

Postby Guy Rixon » Thu Aug 20, 2015 6:32 pm

Chris, it looks wonderful and it's heartening that it works so well. I'm curious about one detail of the procedure: when you drill out the epoxy'd tube 0.45mm, how do you centre the drill? Are you using a jig?

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grovenor-2685
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Re: Finally Made A Start in P4!

Postby grovenor-2685 » Thu Aug 20, 2015 8:25 pm

Comparing the pictures above to this one,
Image
I think congratulations are in order, I don't remember ever seeing a closer match.
Regards

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CDGFife
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Re: Finally Made A Start in P4!

Postby CDGFife » Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:39 pm

Thanks for the comments - I'm glad you're enjoying what for me is a way of recording my progress!

Guy - Once the first epoxy fill has gone off I'm using a centre punch which has a fine point but is also quite wide. It came with my Makita cordless. It is just the right shape to cause an indentation in the set epoxy which is guided by the rim into the centre. The second fix of epoxy and the stretcher ends dipped in Loctite seem to negate any risk of contact exposure on the rim itself!

Cheers

Chris

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CDGFife
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Re: Finally Made A Start in P4!

Postby CDGFife » Tue Aug 25, 2015 1:54 pm

Last update for a while as I'm off for work and then on holiday for the next week and a bit (although I suspect some buildings will be coming with me - nothing like a deadline to focus the mind!).

CS-15-8-14.jpg
Done some more track laying around the tandem turnout(s)/siding throat


Also added some of the woodland that forms the scenic break front right:
CS-15-8-15.jpg
This shot taken from the back of the layout

CS-15-8-16.jpg
Through the wood from the front (reminds me of childhood trips to Eyemore Wood on the SVR!)

CS-15-8-18.jpg
From the baseboard end - line now running through the woods on either side


CS-15-8-17.jpg
Also been working on the first of the farm buildings shown here mocked up


And got the 3rd baseboard carcass glued up ready for trackbed when I get back

Cheers

Chris

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stevecarr
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Re: Finally Made A Start in P4!

Postby stevecarr » Tue Aug 25, 2015 3:08 pm

Marvellous!

Regards

Steve

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CDGFife
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Re: Finally Made A Start in P4!

Postby CDGFife » Mon Sep 21, 2015 7:20 pm

Just back in from the trip to Scaleforum

I'd like to say a huge thanks to everyone that came and said hello at Cadhay Sidings over the weekend and for your positive comments and encouragement. It was great to put faces to a load of names and it was quite surprising just how many people have been following this thread. I was a little nervous about taking the layout out for the first time (and I've never actually been on the non-audience side of an exhibition layout at a show before!!) but the whole experience has been extremely positive and enjoyable.

Only down side to whole trip was spending the last 5 miles on the back of a Green Flag truck when we developed a fuel leak around the tank sender after the final fill up!

Looking forward to next year already. Thanks also to Terry and his team, some of whom went well above the call of duty to give me a little respite on the layout through the weekend and help me load up on Sunday evening. Also thanks to those that loaned me stock for the weekend. I have got a few pics (that may follow) and it's probably the only time you'll see so much Scottish rolling stock in East Devon, not forgetting the 08 and BR brake that slipped through the space-time continuum!

What a great bunch you all are!

Cheers

Chris

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Serjt-Dave
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Re: Finally Made A Start in P4!

Postby Serjt-Dave » Thu Oct 01, 2015 6:20 am

Hi Chris, it was really great to see you and your layout at Scaleforum. As you say it's nice to put a face to a name.

Chatting to you was very interesting and came away with a few ideas etc. Thanks for that. Looking forwards to seeing your layout next year.

All Best

Dave.

P.S. The only upsetting thing I saw on your layout was a Pannier Tank, I hope you cleaned the track well afterwards. LOL.

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CDGFife
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Re: Finally Made A Start in P4!

Postby CDGFife » Thu Oct 01, 2015 2:07 pm

Got a few little jobs out of the way since I got back from Scaleforum. I have boards A & B set up in the sitting room and have adjusted and re-ballasted the joints. They've been parted and re-joined about 5 times and seem to be looking as I want them. The acid test will be when the layout next moves environment. I've filled the layers full of pva which has led to a very solid area of track bed around the joint but the noise does not appear to be too bad!

CS-15-09-07.jpg
Only the split Sleeper really gives the joint position away!

As well as sorting the joint I've started the track painting on board B. I'd left the last 4inches of board A's track so that the colour doesn't jolt at the baseboard joint.

Also:

CS-15-09-06.jpg
Added the last of the greenery to the scenic break at the North end

CS-15-09-04.jpg
Made up a couple of the Ambis Signal wire pulleys

CS-15-09-05.jpg
And moved a few trees further onwards for the next woodland area


Serjt-Dave wrote:Hi Chris, it was really great to see you and your layout at Scaleforum. As you say it's nice to put a face to a name.

Chatting to you was very interesting and came away with a few ideas etc. Thanks for that. Looking forwards to seeing your layout next year.

All Best

Dave.

P.S. The only upsetting thing I saw on your layout was a Pannier Tank, I hope you cleaned the track well afterwards. LOL.


CS-15-09-02.jpg
With apologies to Dave Gower!

At least the pannier was closer to June 1930 East Devon than Alistair Dickson's fine 08 that made the leap through the hole in the space time continuum over the Scaleforum weekend!!!

Cheers

Chris

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CDGFife
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Re: Finally Made A Start in P4!

Postby CDGFife » Sat Oct 17, 2015 10:41 am

Done a bit more scenic work this week.

CS-15-10-1.jpg
Added the fence between the two bridge parapets

CS-15-10-2.jpg
Done some planting on the river bank

CS-15-10-4.jpg
Started adding the telegraph poles

CS-15-10-3.jpg


Also started dis-assembling the M7 for remedial work and started prep work on the farmyard buildings

Cheers

Chris

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Serjt-Dave
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Re: Finally Made A Start in P4!

Postby Serjt-Dave » Sun Oct 18, 2015 4:12 pm

Coming along nicely Chris. The sooner you get your M7 up and running the better, rather than that Greasy Wet Rusty lump. LOL.

All Best

Dave

DougN
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Re: Finally Made A Start in P4!

Postby DougN » Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:09 am

Chris that is some seriously good modelling! :thumb
Doug
Still not doing enough modelling

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CDGFife
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Re: Finally Made A Start in P4!

Postby CDGFife » Thu Nov 05, 2015 10:08 am

Been a bit busy on the house renovations again over the last couple of weeks (and also some modelling work with the East group) but have managed to get some stuff done on the layout:

Done a load of final detailing of the river bed and started filling the water
CS-15-11-01.jpg

CS-15-11-02.jpg


Also started adding the odd figure
CS-15-11-03.jpg
Hope he catches something soon - the fishing line will be added when the water is started


And been working on the stable & pig sty building for the farmyard
CS-15-11-04.jpg
Doors and window bars still to be added

CS-15-11-05.jpg
The harnessed Shire will be eating from a nose bag hung on the (not there yet) open stable door

CS-15-11-06.jpg
Tamworths in the pig sties


Cheers

CDG

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Serjt-Dave
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Re: Finally Made A Start in P4!

Postby Serjt-Dave » Mon Nov 09, 2015 4:56 pm

Looking really good Chris. I like especially the GWR shed! Er! I mean the pig sties. LOL.

Dave

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CDGFife
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Re: Finally Made A Start in P4!

Postby CDGFife » Mon Jan 04, 2016 8:56 pm

Happy New Year All!

Can't believe it's been so long since my last update. Whilst I haven't got a lot to show, some progress has been made in the last 2 months but almost all under the bonnet!

I've built my first two MERG Cbus kits and am in the process of getting them to talk to each other. Some nice twisted pair shielded cable arrived yesterday to help with this.

I've also jury rigged a morse code key and cheap electric underdome bell to get working bell signals in preparation for manufacture of the first block instruments. I have to admit that, much to Jacki's annoyance, some (actually a lot of) time was wasted playing with the bell system once it was working!! Next up here is the block instrument Line Blocked/Line Clear/Train on Line needle display/movements.

I've also started the re-wire that was always going to be required as the layout wiring was somewhat jury rigged ("Dogged-in" as my Dad commented) to be ready for Scaleforum.

ON the research front I'm now in possession of the WTT from 1932 on which I will base most of my movements, whilst adding freight in/out from the sidings (which are the fictional bit). On first look there's plenty of interesting moves and with the added freight stuff we should be able to come up with a decent schedule. Also starting to look for Carriage Workings so I can focus my rolling stock thoughts. I've re-possessed 3 of my low-window Maunsells from Dad's OO empire to be P4 converted to start to represent the through coaches from Sidmouth Junction to Sidmouth and Exmouth, but am needing to understand what other stock was used on the locals etc. I've also set Dad off on researching what type of LMS through coaches ran from both Sidmouth and Exmouth in 1932.

Finally I've also been doing some M7 research to identify a re-number for 357 when it finally gets to the head of the shop queue. 357 didn't make it to the West country until much later than tthe 1930-32 timescale I'm modelling so this was always going to be required. I've pretty much settled on E320 as it was very similar to 357 and was allocated to Exmouth Junction at the time Cadhay is set. Now just to get the time to actually work on it!

Hope you all had a good one

Cheers

CDG

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CDGFife
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Re: Finally Made A Start in P4!

Postby CDGFife » Fri Jan 15, 2016 6:00 pm

Some progress to report that is non-scenic!

I've built and bench tested my first MERG CBus units. After a little hickup initially (solved on the MERG forum with help from a Mr Norgrove of this parish - thanks) I now have the units connected up and working (albeit a little heath Robinson until I get it to the underside of the layout):

CSM16-1-2.jpg
This image shows the Cadhay Sidings Bell Tapper connected to the CBus at the left end and the Cadhay St Mary (South fiddle yard) box bell top right. The key thing is that even when all the other bells and Line status displays are added the only inter-baseboard wiring will be the purple/pink twisted pair and the blue/brown 12V DC power both of which are off the front of the desk. The relay circuit shown here on a breadboard has now been made permanent using some stripboard. The eagle eyed amongst you may have spotted a CDU in there. This is to give the neccessary "umph" to operate the bell solenoid, but also to ensure that only one ring per press (and hold) of the tapper is the end result. It must be working - it's already driving Jacki mad!


CSM16-1-1.jpg
This is the MERG Servo Pocket Money Kit adapted to give three positions of the servo arm based on the three positions of the rotary switch. This will become the Pegging line status needle display in my Block Instruments along with a non-pegger operated via relays through the CBus at the other end!


For those interested in such things here's a copy of the latest CBus schematic for Cadhay Sidings.
Cadhay Sidings CBus Schematic.pdf
(109.56 KiB) Downloaded 83 times


Finally I'd like to say I'm chuffed to bits with two mentions for Cadhay Sidings in the latest copy of the Snooze. It's a bit overwhelming to be in such fine modelling company in what I thought was a really good issue! Thanks to Will and also to Mike G for the mentions - much appreciate your kind words. Still don't know about that signal box roof though!

Cheers

Chris

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CDGFife
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Re: Finally Made A Start in P4!

Postby CDGFife » Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:37 pm

And now all that electronicary is incorporated into this:

CSM16-1-3.jpg


Just got another 3 to build now

cheers

Chris

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CDGFife
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Re: Finally Made A Start in P4!

Postby CDGFife » Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:32 am

So one or two people have commented that we appear to have gained a double line looking instrument for a single line layout! This is of course correct. By way of explanation, I posted the following in my Cadhay thread on the MERG forum this morning:

I looked long and hard at replicating a Tyers No 3 single line instrument, but could not satisfactorily crack the issue of physically getting the token along the line without operators walking it there. I considered doing it using an electronic token but somehow that did not feel right for a 1930s layout. I appreciate that may sound odd given the Bus/control/Servo technology being used, but that is all under the bonnet and I've tried to keep the operator interaction feeling traditional (Lever Frame, Bell codes, etc.). So with all that in mind I decided to look at it another way - what control do I need and can I make that control have a 1930s railway look and feel to it?

Also Cadhay's entire concept is to be experimental with a view to eventually building Sidmouth Junction (which will need double line Block Instruments!) and that led me to build a pair of essentially double line block instruments, but add in some safety devices behind the scenes to allow my operators to run safely, but also practically on Cadhay's single line.

The decision I have made is to operate as follows:

1: The instrument indicators will govern line availability and there will be "start" signals for each block controlled by the relevant Signal Box or Fiddle Yard Panel interlocked with the block indicators.
2: The two different direction indicators for each block will be electronically locked so only one direction can be moved from "line blocked" at any time (hence single line protection).
3: The loco drivers will be instructed (cajoled/battered ;) ) to obey the signals at all times.
4: Depending on how well 3 goes I have the option of adding into this picture isolation of small track sections at the start of each block, locked back to the indicators.

I appreciate this is a fudge but it's one I'm not entirely unhappy with!

Cheers

Chris

Edit - inappropriate apostrophe removed from paragraph 2!

junctionmad
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Re: Finally Made A Start in P4!

Postby junctionmad » Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:06 pm

I was musing how to replicate miniature Webb and Thompson ETS machines on my " great final layout " plan for later this year ( it's a 5 line , single line junction , !! ) . Since without the physical token , the ETS machine is little more then a bell device , I considered modifying the galvo display to have some form of , " normal ( blocked ) , train towards , " train from" display. Which I beleive several token/tablet machines actually had such a type f display.

Hence on completion of is line clear bells, the distant box , would set the commutator to "trains from " which would set the galvo to " train to " on the local machine , releasing the section signal in the process.

Since all my remote stations are effectively the fiddle yard , my intention was to use my intended fiddle yard automation to act as the remote ets machine.

Again like you , this is a somewhat corrupt version of the real thing , but seems to be the closet I can get without physically moving tokens about.

Dave


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