Hessle Haven - a model of a railway

Tell us about your layout, where you put it, how you built it, how you operate it.
mikemeg

Re: Hessle Haven - a model of a railway

Postby mikemeg » Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:24 am

Andy,

Many thanks for the kind comments. All of this is very much a first attempt, at least this time around, so I'm still learning. I would very much like to see this forum becoming as interactive as RMWeb, though I'm not sure as to the extent to which the Scalefour membership has broadband or, indeed, PC's, so that could become something of a barrier to a more widespread participation.

The next section of the railway, once the section shown in the most 'adjacent' photo above is 'planted' and detailed, will be the one covering the picture of the B16/3 earlier in the thread. This will certainly test the track building capabilities, with all of the crossovers, slips and diamonds; not to mention that damn great signal bridge. Anyway onwards, ever onwards.

Regards

Mike

mikemeg

Re: Hessle Haven - a model of a railway

Postby mikemeg » Thu Mar 26, 2009 8:01 am

dave k wrote:I've been following the 'Hessle Haven' story and the building of signals on RMWeb. Its a pity that the signal building saga has only been posted and not here as I am sure it would be of interest.


As a final contribution, to this thread, let me answer this comment. When I posted the signal building thread on RMWeb, I thought that I might be able to offer some slightly new approaches, new techniques for making these things. But, the thread occasioned literally dozens of replies on all sorts of aspects of modelling these things, not least circuit diagrams and illustrated designs for 'memory wire motors'.

Far from me imparting what experience I had gained, I was one of the biggest beneficiaries and learned a lot more about doing this.

Let me treat you to some numbers. Here we will assume a Scalefour membership of 1750 - might be slightly more or less.

Of the 1750 Society members, 335 are members of this forum - slightly less than 20% of the membership.

Of the 335 members of this forum, over 210 have never posted - that's 65% inactive on here. So that leaves around 35% of 19% as active forum members. Put another way that is 6.7% of the Society membership which has posted, at least once, to this forum. If I extend this to who has posted more than 10 postings, then you wouldn't believe how small the percentage is.

Who are the most active participants on this forum? Is it the Committee? Er No.

Interestingly, of those who do post regularly here, most are even more active participants in other forums, most notably RMWeb.

So I hope that answers the comment, quoted above.

So that's it for this thread. There is much more to write and to say on the railway and its models; it will be on RMWeb.

Mike

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dcockling
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Re: Hessle Haven - a model of a railway

Postby dcockling » Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:05 am

mikemeg wrote:Of the 335 members of this forum, over 210 have never posted - that's 65% inactive on here. So that leaves around 35% of 19% as active forum members. Put another way that is 6.7% of the Society membership which has posted, at least once, to this forum. If I extend this to who has posted more than 10 postings, then you wouldn't believe how small the percentage is.

Who are the most active participants on this forum? Is it the Committee? Er No.


Is there any particular reason why Committee members should be posting on the forum more than anyone else, given that it was set up as a medium for members to communicate with one another? And what kind of Committee postings do you think there should be?

In actual fact over 400 postings have been made by elected or appointed officers of the Society. Even if you discount Keith's postings as administrator, he's still made many modelling related postings and Terry Bendall, Paul Willis, Jim Smith-Wright, John Bateson and I have made over 200 postings between us.

We are never going to rival the on-line community on RMWeb, but I think tou'll find that the participation level over there percentage wise probably isn't that much different, especially if you discount all of the 'what I watched on telly last night' and 'me to' postings, which thankfully we don't seem to suffer from.

All the Best
Danny

mikemeg

Re: Hessle Haven - a model of a railway

Postby mikemeg » Sat Mar 28, 2009 5:45 am

dcockling wrote:Is there any particular reason why Committee members should be posting on the forum more than anyone else, given that it was set up as a medium for members to communicate with one another? And what kind of Committee postings do you think there should be?


This following posting should, perhaps, be in the members lounge section, but as the question (above) is posed here, let me offer the answer here. Then this thread should revert back to Hessle Haven.

The Committee is faced with a number of dilemmas :-

Static or even falling membership, this at a time when personal budgets are under ever more severe stress.

Sensing the 'mood' of the membership, and would be members, to determine what they seek from the Society.

Establishing just what role, in this information age, the Society should now play.

A proliferation of Model Shows and Exhibitions - there is some show, somewhere, almost every week.

And a whole lot of other questions and issues.

Now, what's the easiest way to establish 'touch' with the more active members - this Forum. Sure there is a large proportion of the membership who do not post to this forum; they do not post to anything; they do not use the web or Information Technology.

Those members may have staunchly supported the Society over the years of its existence but they are not the future. The future, as someone observed in the Members Lounge section, is those folks on here and, even more significantly, on RMWeb.

So that's why the Committee should be ensuring that they 'trawl' this forum and all other forums, regularly and comprehensively :-

To see what is happening in the hobby; to see how the Scalefour Society needs to evolve and change; to see what members and would-be members actually want from membership.

Quite frankly, Danny, if you need to ask the question, quoted at the top of this thread, then my point is only to aptly made - by your good self.

Regards

Mike

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Where's the Committee? (was Re: Hessle Haven)

Postby Flymo748 » Sat Mar 28, 2009 7:02 am

mikemeg wrote:
dcockling wrote:Is there any particular reason why Committee members should be posting on the forum more than anyone else, given that it was set up as a medium for members to communicate with one another? And what kind of Committee postings do you think there should be?


Quite frankly, Danny, if you need to ask the question, quoted at the top of this thread, then my point is only to aptly made - by your good self.


I think that you're being extremely disingenuous in drawing that conclusion. I'll say first of all that I share your concerns about what the Society will do in the future, and the impossibility of resting on the laurels of the past.

However I read Danny's comment as asked in the content of general material about modelling, not in the communication of "Society" or Committee business. There is a role for that, and it's going to grow.

It's simply not fair to expect Committee members to be more active modellers (and writers of threads about modelling) just because of their position. You know as well as anyone that they have less hobby time for actual modelling than anyone else! Also, if you look to the Snooze, you'll see that most of the articles in the last couple of years have been contributed by current or past Committee members. Without those, it would be a much slimmer publication.

Also I know, because I'm participating in it, that the Committee is continuously discussing issues that arise from E4um, P4Talk or here. I'd include RMWeb as well, but I think that we'd have no time left for breathing if we tried to cover the volume on there!

So I feel that you're deliberately twisting Danny's intent in asking his rhetorical question, and being rather unfair to him personally in responding as you did. Apologies for the hijacking modelling thread, and I look forward to the modelling posts returning soon!
Cheers
P.
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Re: Hessle Haven - a model of a railway

Postby Ashley » Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:02 pm

Gosh, who would have thought that a simple model thread could so quickly disintegrate like this? Hum, not getting political, but Mike has a point. Forums are for the member, and if you are on the committee you are also a member. Members contribute to the forum and by doing so become stakeholders, thereby creating a profile from their contributions.

As to the 200 hundred post between us comment, from Danny etc, seems to me to be a rather sad as by the criteria of forum postings where such a level of activity would be considered rather low. Just saying is all. :ugeek:
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Re: Hessle Haven - a model of a railway

Postby jim s-w » Sat Apr 18, 2009 11:40 am

Hi all

Danny's 200 postings comments actually equates to roughly 12% of messages posted so far. I dont think that figure is particularily unusual for a society based forum.

It stands to reason, that if you post similar messages on more than one forum they will tend to head off into different directions and the larger forum will, of course, generate more interest. However is an endless stream of 'thats nice' comments that you tend to get on other forums actually contributing anything? It could be argued that the posters here have a little more confidence in what they are doing than a general forum and the praising comments, while very much appreciated, are not required.

As it stands at the moment this forum is coming along just fine (IMHO) and worrying about the number of posts is of no relevance what so ever. I would even argue that the concise, heavily fact or modelling based nature of the messages on here is what many forums wished they had!

Regards

Jim

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Ashley
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Re: Hessle Haven - a model of a railway

Postby Ashley » Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:50 pm

Good point, but I would disagree. I disagree because those "that's nice" comments are the equivalent of social lubrication. The little things that at first glance appear meaningless, but have purpose. A bit like saying hello & how are you really. A totally meaningless question question most of the time. However, it is considered polite and friendly.

Perhaps then the fact that forum doesn't support social/internet niceties is a good thing, but OTOH perhaps not?
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Re: Hessle Haven - a model of a railway

Postby grovenor-2685 » Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:12 pm

Perhaps then the fact that forum doesn't support social/internet niceties is a good thing, but OTOH perhaps not?


I don't see any 'fact' in the above, just opinion.
Regards
Regards
Keith
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Re: Hassle Haven - a model of a modern major general

Postby Flymo748 » Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:50 pm

grovenor-2685 wrote:
Perhaps then the fact that forum doesn't support social/internet niceties is a good thing, but OTOH perhaps not?


I don't see any 'fact' in the above, just opinion.
Regards


My perspective is that you're both right ;-)

Keith is correct that Ashley's view on the level of social interraction is mere opinion, however Ashley has highlighted a charcteristic of S4Webforum that is distinctive, if not quite unique. There is a definite lack of smilies :-(

You look on most forums, and the dialogue is peppered with expressions of shock, approval, disgust, confusion or just plain happiness. This makes S4Web a somewhat less animated, or perhaps emotionally stilted in its content. One-dimensional, perhaps?

of course, this may be what people actually want. I was busy on motorbike mailing lists at the time, so I wasn't around when p4Talk was set up. However I understand that the driving force for that was for a place of peace and tranquility away from the hurly burly of robust opinions (and generally innovative thinking) that is the bear-pit known as E4um...

I subscribe to both lists, and both competing forums (somehow, using fora seems _wrong_ in an internet context - discuss...) and appreciate both for what that are. Whether one is better than any other depends entirely on what you are looking for ;-)

All the best,
P.
(or Flymo in other places, where the world is less formal that the Society requires)
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Re: Hessle Haven - a model of a railway

Postby Ashley » Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:44 pm

grovenor-2685 wrote:
Perhaps then the fact that forum doesn't support social/internet niceties is a good thing, but OTOH perhaps not?


I don't see any 'fact' in the above, just opinion.
Regards


So let me see if I have got this straight, because I'm a bear of little brains, and can become easily confused...

Jim S-W says quote "It stands to reason, that if you post similar messages on more than one forum they will tend to head off into different directions and the larger forum will, of course, generate more interest. However is an endless stream of 'thats nice' comments that you tend to get on other forums actually contributing anything? It could be argued that the posters here have a little more confidence in what they are doing than a general forum and the praising comments, while very much appreciated, are not required."

Now I foolishly took this to mean that social niceties, my code word for "that's nice" comments are seen as not contributing anything to the forum. I then made my comment to address that point; adding a perhaps comment, so as to leave it open and signal that further dialogue might clarify the perceived lack of value that Jim S-W posits.

You replied by arguing that because in your opinion, my statement was not factual, it was somehow invalidated? Okay, let's assume that you are right.

If it is true that what I said was just an opinion, then what was it about my opinion that upset you so much?
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Re: Hessle Haven - a model of a railway

Postby grovenor-2685 » Wed Apr 22, 2009 8:37 pm

Where did I say I was upset?
Your statement could easily be read to state that 'social niceties' are somehow banned or blocked from this forum. Which is not the case. Anyone is free to be as nice as they want.
Regards
Regards
Keith
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Re: Hessle Haven - a model of a railway

Postby jim s-w » Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:16 pm

Ashley wrote:
So let me see if I have got this straight, because I'm a bear of little brains, and can become easily confused...

Jim S-W says quote "It stands to reason, that if you post similar messages on more than one forum they will tend to head off into different directions and the larger forum will, of course, generate more interest. However is an endless stream of 'thats nice' comments that you tend to get on other forums actually contributing anything? It could be argued that the posters here have a little more confidence in what they are doing than a general forum and the praising comments, while very much appreciated, are not required."

Now I foolishly took this to mean that social niceties, my code word for "that's nice" comments are seen as not contributing anything to the forum. I then made my comment to address that point; adding a perhaps comment, so as to leave it open and signal that further dialogue might clarify the perceived lack of value that Jim S-W posits.



Hi Ashley

Further to you point, that answered my original question (thanks) I don't think is so much that its a lack of niceness but more a greater understanding of what the audience is looking at. Perhaps, conversely increasing the value of the 'thats nice comment?' While some of us may post a picture of handbuilt track over on RMweb it will usually be met with glowing praise from those who are not used to seeing such a thing. Thats not to say their comments are wrong or the piece isnt good but over here it might just be that people are used to seeing it, we see it all the time, and as such its a bit less unusual.
People are more likely to chip in here with advice or observations that help the modeller to improve the work and perhaps its the agreeable silence (as so beloved by some over on E4um) that can be read as approval?

I am still a member of some yahoo groups that havent seen a post for over a year! I dont think this forum is doing too badly at all

Cheers

Jim

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Ashley
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Re: Hessle Haven - a model of a railway

Postby Ashley » Sat Apr 25, 2009 7:30 pm

jim s-w wrote:Hi Ashley

Further to you point, that answered my original question (thanks) I don't think is so much that its a lack of niceness but more a greater understanding of what the audience is looking at. Perhaps, conversely increasing the value of the 'thats nice comment?' While some of us may post a picture of handbuilt track over on RMweb it will usually be met with glowing praise from those who are not used to seeing such a thing. Thats not to say their comments are wrong or the piece isnt good but over here it might just be that people are used to seeing it, we see it all the time, and as such its a bit less unusual.

People are more likely to chip in here with advice or observations that help the modeller to improve the work and perhaps its the agreeable silence (as so beloved by some over on E4um) that can be read as approval?

I am still a member of some yahoo groups that havent seen a post for over a year! I dont think this forum is doing too badly at all


Hi Jim...

Not sure I buy the idea that silence equals approval for a dollar. :P

The way I see it is thus. When I go down to my club, CLAG, and I take something along, it usually generates comments, which can be quite robust, but more usually appreciative and supportive. What never, ever happens is that I go along with something and nobody says anything. Using this experience as a metaphor for what goes on in forums, when people post stuff one kind of expects some comments, feedback, even if it is something along the lines of what Sergeant Wilson would say in "Dads Army", "are you sure that's wise?" ;)

When I read mikemeg comments, the impression I got from his post was one of "well where is the chat?" For me, not him, or you, but me, if I were to start posting work here and getting very little feedback I would start to wonder if what I was doing (choose one):

a. Rubbish. :cry:
b. Of no interest. :(
c. Intimidatingly good and cause others total jealousy. :P
d. No one was home, and they forgot to switch out the lights. ;)
e. Some other reason I can't think of. :?

So as you say, even a "that's nice" comment means something. Now what I also understand from mikemeg comments, was on RMweb, lots of people brought other stuff to the thread. Useful informations, ideas, insights into his work. The trouble is you only get this synergy when people feel that posting adds value. When you look at the numbers, the volume of posts here reflects the numbers of people posting.

The question for me is how do you get people to post more? For me the issue of quality post versus quantity of posts is less relevant for me as I think that "quantity has a quality all of its own"! :twisted:

As for the whole track thing, well without hand-built track, there are no P4 layouts, because AFAIK Peco have not yet introduced P4 RTR track system. Oh yeah, I know you can get flex, C&L turnouts in a bag, and the wonderful P4TCo turnout kits, but for the great majority of railway modellers, building anything, let alone track is not an easy task to be taken for granted.

So when I post here I will be doing it to generate conversations, which in the many years of experience I have of being a member of many other forums, which IMNSHO is primarily the purpose of forums; that is a forum to talk about the topic that as members of this forum we have a passion for. :ugeek:
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Hardwicke
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Re: Hessle Haven - a model of a railway

Postby Hardwicke » Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:52 am

I'm interested in the point rodding stool supports. I added my own to Forge Mill Sidings but very few noticed. Do you have any closer shots of yours and what shape are they? I know they varied depending on region and time.
Michael.
Builder of Forge Mill Sidings, Kirkcliffe Coking Plant, Swanage and Heaby. Still trying to "Keep the Balance".

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Re: Hessle Haven - a model of a railway

Postby DougN » Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:48 am

Michael, you might want to check out the new Wills rodding and stools kit... I think it is just out or about to come out. I saw some topics on Rmweb the other day.
Doug
Still not doing enough modelling

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LesGros
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Re: Hessle Haven - a model of a railway

Postby LesGros » Sat Jun 29, 2013 6:26 am

Micheal,
I visited peco recently, they are on sale there.
LesG

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never made anything useful

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Re: Hessle Haven - a model of a railway

Postby grovenor-2685 » Sat Jun 29, 2013 10:24 am

I have a sample of the Wills rodding, it is correct lengthwise with 18ft rods and 9ft stool spacing, however, the rods are 1mm, ie 3" wide, twice what they should be so a run with more than 1 or 2 parallel rods is going to get much wider than it should be. They will probably look Ok for a small run in a background location. I intend to assemble my sample in such a location and see how it looks.
Keith
Regards
Keith
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DougN
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Re: Hessle Haven - a model of a railway

Postby DougN » Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:55 am

Interesting Keith, I guess wills have a problem with the manufacturing of such a small section in plastic. I guess if people are willing to install rodding is better than no rodding at all.

I tHink I will have to get some just to see what is in the pack. :)
Doug
Still not doing enough modelling

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Re: Hessle Haven - a model of a railway

Postby grovenor-2685 » Sun Jun 30, 2013 2:40 pm

Pictures of pack contents below, the pack has 4 of the large sprue with 4 rods each, ie grand total of 288ft of rodding.
Also 2 each of the other 3 sprues which gives you a fair selection of cranks and rod ends but only two compensators.
DSCF1705.JPG

The other two pics show 3 rod sections assembled side by side on a couple of blu-tack stools. There are holes though the bottom of the A frames so a wire can be inserted to keep them in line. No help is provided for joining the rods lengthwise, just a butt joint, drilling the ends for a wire could be a bit masokistic but may be eased by a jig. Or perhaps just use a piece of brass channel to hold the butt joints in line while they set. With a wider grouping of rods a sheet of 20 thou plasticard under the whole joint would probably be unnoticeable.
Keith
DSCF1707.JPG

DSCF1710.JPG
Regards
Keith
Grovenor Sidings

Kos
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Re: Hessle Haven - a model of a railway

Postby Kos » Sun Jun 30, 2013 10:05 pm

I've only just tuned in to Hessle Haven, though some time ago I cut out of Snooze a pic of Mikemeg's bridge as an inspirational pic.

Where are you Mikemeg, I'd like to see how you are getting on with Hessle Haven.

Stuart

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Re: Hessle Haven - a model of a railway

Postby Flymo748 » Mon Jul 01, 2013 6:40 am

Kos wrote:I've only just tuned in to Hessle Haven, though some time ago I cut out of Snooze a pic of Mikemeg's bridge as an inspirational pic.

Where are you Mikemeg, I'd like to see how you are getting on with Hessle Haven.

Stuart

Hi Stuart,

Mike is now over on RMWeb, although he doesn't seem to have been active in the last month or so. This is the layout thread:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index. ... sle-haven/

Cheers
Flymo
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Re: Hessle Haven - a model of a railway

Postby Kos » Mon Jul 01, 2013 4:36 pm

Thanks Flymo, I hope Mike posts some newer pics,

Stuart

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jon price
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Re: Wills rodding

Postby jon price » Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:28 pm

Hi

this looks to be wider than it is deep, ie if it is 1mm wide it is .5mm deep. Is this actually the case? At double the width it should be plus excess gaps between it seems to look quite wide. How does it compare to other options such as Brassmasters?

Jon Price
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Re: Hessle Haven - a model of a railway

Postby grovenor-2685 » Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:33 pm

this looks to be wider than it is deep, ie if it is 1mm wide it is .5mm deep. Is this actually the case?

No, the rod is near as dammit square, 1mm wide and 1mm deep.
Keith
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Keith
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