Lighting for exhibiting

[Tim Hale]

Hi,

I am just planning the lighting for a small 2M diorama and would welcome any thoughts on my requirements.

Having exhibited for the best part of thirty years, my requirements are fairly simple - robust and cool lighting. Fluorescent tubes fulfil the latter but not the former and Ikea spots have the opposite qualities.

Considering the plethora of innovative products, are the any that will meet my simple need?

Thank you for your suggestions.

Tim

[John Bateson]

GU10 LED Minisun - a rack of these.
I use them for desk top lighting.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Pack-10-MiniSun ... B007VNXSK8

After an hour in use I can touch the bulbs without burning myself.

John

[Tim Hale]

Hi and thanks,

How do you use these? I presume special holders and a transformer are needed?

Tim

[John Bateson]

Tim,
These are mains driven, no transformer needed. Sockets are available (also from Amazon) in bags of 10 or more. These come with a couple of screw holes (same as the traditional fittings.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lamp-Holder-Reg ... 434&sr=1-1

Simply daisy chain some mains lead for however many you need so that the lamps are in parallel.

Note that I haven't actually done mine yet, this is just the plan for when son-in-law has his next break. I have 3 lamps bought from Homebase at £8 each which sit over the lathe, the workbench and the desk.

John

[LesGros]

John Bateson wrote:

... I have 3 lamps bought from Homebase at £8 each which sit over the lathe, the workbench and the desk.

Happy New Year John,
I note that there is a choice of LED colour, and rating. eg warm white, cool white etc. Which do you prefer?

[Tim Hale]

Tim,
These are mains driven, no transformer needed.

That is odd, the Halogens currently in the study use a step-down for each strip of three.

I,too, have ordered a box of ten GU10's and intend to use them in both the study and on the layout, does it follow that I most remove the step-down from the study before using the GU10's?

Presumably, the LED's need a lighting box built into the lighting pelmet?

Tim

[John Bateson]

Tim,
The ones I pointed to from Amazon are 240v. If you are replacing halogens that are stepped down (probably to 24v) then you will need to remove the transformer. However, for stepped down systems the wiring is usually rated at 24v between the transformer and the lights - this will not suit a 240v system. You may need to rewire as well!
There are 24v and 12v LED GU10s available but they are expensive and I have no experience of them.

May I recommend you get this checked before you replace the bulbs.

Les
The choice seems to be between 'daylight' and 'warm white'. In the house we are used to the output from incandescent bulbs, so to match that 'warm' white would be the choice.
However, if yiu have ever used 'daylight' incandescent bulbs (usually a blue colour glass) the difference is easily seen. I would tend to choose the 'daylight' version of the new LED bulbs. This is a very confusing area to understand and it hurt my brain! 'White' and 'cool' seem to mean different things depending on which fact sheet you read.
I can only suggest buying a couple of each and comparing them in a real model railway situation.
John

[Mark Tatlow]

Personally I am not convinced by LED lighting for layout elimination on the grounds that it takes a lot of LEDs to get a level of illumination that will actually light up the layout. They would have the potential advantage of giving a flat multi-directional lightin though.

Floursecent bulbs are moderately durable (I am struggling to find an alternative that is much more durable as even LED's are prone to strikes by blunt instruments such as the ground!). They are available in a choice of colours (albeit only from electical suppliers, not B&Q). However, I am of the view that if you keep your lighting source consistant at the time of painting to the time of exhibiting, you will go a long way to having the right sort of feel for colour.

My one other observation is to mount the lighting such that it is 150 - 200mm in front of the layout face. This both ensures that the front of the layout is illuminated (not doing so is a common problem on the exhibition circuit) but it also encourages punters to stand just a little bit back from the front of the layout to ave them bumping their heads!

[Paul Townsend]

Tim,
The ones I pointed to from Amazon are 240v. If you are replacing halogens that are stepped down (probably to 24v) then you will need to remove the transformer. However, for stepped down systems the wiring is usually rated at 24v between the transformer and the lights - this will not suit a 240v system. You may need to rewire as well!
There are 24v and 12v LED GU10s available but they are expensive and I have no experience of them.

May I recommend you get this checked before you replace the bulbs.

Les
The choice seems to be between 'daylight' and 'warm white'. In the house we are used to the output from incandescent bulbs, so to match that 'warm' white would be the choice.
However, if yiu have ever used 'daylight' incandescent bulbs (usually a blue colour glass) the difference is easily seen. I would tend to choose the 'daylight' version of the new LED bulbs. This is a very confusing area to understand and it hurt my brain! 'White' and 'cool' seem to mean different things depending on which fact sheet you read.
I can only suggest buying a couple of each and comparing them in a real model railway situation.
John

GU10 spec lighting is only and always mains fed. The leds have built in electronics to give low voltage internally.

The QIs of old and led replacements are 12v and use external transformers or electronics, they use a different plug design family called MR12 which prevents interchange with GU10s.

Colour temperature of LEDs in lighting is a minefield as they are by definition narrow spectrum devices so manufactureres use a group to simulate white and every manufacturer varies in the white quality; all are blind to a few colours! Better suppliers publish graphical data sheets so you can see what you are buying. Cheapo unbranded Chinese dont and are unpredictable, same supplier changes spec without notice.

I recommend a trial of a few that are currently good value, choose/decide and buy bulk quickly before they change. Or stick to the most expensive which stick to a published spec.

[Terry Bendall]

A look round most exhibitions will see almost as many ideas for lighting layouts as there are layouts on show. I think that the best thing is to look and see what others are using and choose the method that works best for you, and which appears to give the best results for the layout.

For small and medium sized layouts at exhibitions there seems to be an increasing use of a pelmet of some sort, and usually strip lights of some description. On Ravenscroft Sidings we used four of the small strip lights intended for use under kitchen units to illuminate work surfaces. These are (I think) fluorescent lamps and are 15 watts, but they give sufficient even lighting all over the layout. As Mark says one of the key things is to have the lights in front of the front edge of the baseboard so that all the layout is lit. The pelmet on Ravenscroft is in two 5 foot sections which are bolted together and supported by 25mm dia steel conduit at each end of the scenic section. It does tend to sag a bit in the middle.

The main problem with pelmets, if you use one is supporting it, and for exhibition layouts, it is something else to transport. On Pulborough we use a pelmet for the whole length of the layout ( 50 feet including the fiddle yards) and this was made of plywood with a lightweight wooden frame. It is supported on 20 mm diameter steel conduit tubes, in a L shape fixed to the back of the baseboard which fit into wooden blocks on the floor. We used refelector type adjustable spot lamps which are fine and have not suffered from breakages. It is however bit of a trail to put up.

The South London group use a very neat system on St Merryn with the pelmet supported at each end in sockets which are an integral part of the baseboards and this shows the value of thinking about the lighting at the start of planning the layout. All the details are in the St Merryn book published by the Society and still available from the Stores. Looking at the pictures in the book this also sags a bit but I think that is almost inevitable.

Terry Bendall

[Ian Everett]

Hi,

my requirements are fairly simple - robust and cool lighting. Fluorescent tubes fulfil the latter but not the former
Tim

I've used the same fluorescent tube for some 15 years on the fascias for Clecklewyke and Humber Dock. Despite my clumsiness it has survived. Maybe I've been lucky?

I like the light it gives - cool both in colour and to the touch.

Ian

[LesGros]

John Bateson Wrote:

...I can only suggest buying a couple of each and comparing them in a real model railway situation

.

Thanks John,
I wondered if there was any preference, in your view, of which is best for the two applications; lathe and layout. but trying some out is the way forward.
Thanks too to Paul T for pointing out the different specs, and the obvious need for matching the lamps.

[doktorstamp]

En passen so to speak; use of white LEDs can lead to problems when photographing layouts, either for yourselves when promoting the layout, or more likely for visitors at a show.

White LEDs have a penchant for causing a colour shift into the violet spectrum, although most viewing screens on digital cameras will show some colour shift, it is more pronounced once the pictures have been uploaded to a PC. This I only discovered myself when using LED arrays designed for macro-photography.

Furthermore the drop-off in strength (Kelvin) is more pronounced than with other light sources, to wit halogen or fluorescent tubes. With these latter the auto white balance on digital cameras copes adequately in the main.

Myself I resort to using a colour correction filter, but many digital cameras have no facility to attach these, and so post "shopping" will be necessary.

Use of flash eliminates the above problem, however my own feeling on this is that flash is an unwelcome distraction for the operators of layouts, static subjects are, of course, different.

I am not saying do not use LEDs; cool, light, and robust, and wiring relatively simple; however even those to the the highest spec are, to the best of my knowledge, possessed of this problem.

DSLRs and digital Bridge cameras have facility to change the white balance, many will allow you to view the histogram prior to shooting, but if 10 layouts at a show were all illuminated with LEDs, this would quite likely require resetting the camera for each situation, as most certainly not all LEDs will have been sourced from the same supplier/manufacturer, and ambient light will also play its part.

kind regards

Nigel

[DougN]

Nigel, I have just put 2 lengths in a project that I am completing. The LED's were on a strip and slid into the holder they came in 5m lenght! These ones (and knowing what the architect was like they were the most expensive they could find!) were very expensive but at only 16mm (W)x 8mm (H) (in the defuser) were very light (weight wise) and easy to install the trandformer was bulky though! As you say they are not the correct light (kelvin) temperature so may not suit every one. Personally if I was building my OO layout again I would seriously think about using them. I would think that in time every one will be able to walk into the big hardware chains and buy these under bench lights which will come down in price allowing cheaper lighting for layouts. I think even with the know how on this list you may be able to change the surface mount LEDS to other colours giving a better colour balance. It may just take some time and effort on the purchaser!

I must admit that I was surprised at how these were delievered. The diffusers came in a single length and cut to size with a hack saw but the lights them selves were on a backing strip of ultra thin PCB type strip.
http://www.led-shop.com.au/shop/strip-l ... strip-blue in that link there is a very similar product just with out the diffuser! (I might say that website is Heap cheaper than what I had to buy!) Surprisingly this 5 meter length is cheaper than the 2 15W fluros i have on my layout!

Just thinking out side the square (sorry about the pun) these could even illuminate a curved fascia.... umm I will go back to thinking about my circular layout! I was wondering how to light it!

[Tim Hale]

In the end,


I bought two spotlight bars from Amazon, each has two spots which stay where they are pointed and a very robust construction. I just need to connect and mount on the fascia - the box carries the following info: United Lights Chrome Mini-2B.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00817OUOG/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00

The filaments supplied are not LED's but this not surprising at just £22.00 for two units plus post. With the Mini-Sun LED's they provide ample light to the layout, they are robust and cool. All of which fulfils the original requirement at the start of the thread. My thanks to John B for his advice.

Tim

[martin goodall]

En passen so to speak;

Les francais dit "en passant", je pense.

[Alan Turner]

As do us chess layers.

Alan

[Paul Willis]

Hi,

I am just planning the lighting for a small 2M diorama and would welcome any thoughts on my requirements.

Having exhibited for the best part of thirty years, my requirements are fairly simple - robust and cool lighting. Fluorescent tubes fulfil the latter but not the former and Ikea spots have the opposite qualities.

Considering the plethora of innovative products, are the any that will meet my simple need?

Thank you for your suggestions.

Picking this up again, at the St Albans Show on Saturday I had a very pleasant chat with the owner of "Corris 1930". http://www.uckfieldmrc.co.uk/exhib11/corris1930.html and wait - it's a slideshow.

I'd previously been tipped off by Chris Longley of "New Mere" that the lighting was very clever, and indeed it was. It was two joined strips of LED lighting behind the fascia (you'll see it in one of the pictures that I linked) running the full width of the layout. The lighting covered the whole of the layout with a good level of light, and no obvious bright spots or dark shadows.

The colour temperature seemed good as well, being dexcribed as the "warm white" grade.

The chap didn't have any details of the company that he used, although he remembered that it had a name like "Perfect Lighting" and was based in Liverpool. The other point was that he said that the customer service was immaculate, and took care to understand exactly what was required.

A google didn't produce a company of that name, but I *suspect* that it might be this one:

http://www.simplelighting.co.uk/categor ... ip-Lights/

I suppose that I'll find out when I have some free time for layout building...

Flymo

[Tim V]

I had problems at St Albans with the stage lighting. It was high level LEDs. Dreadful colour balance, made the layout look like a heavy frost, apart from the bars of normal colour caused by the beams carrying the strip lights.

Cured by getting the stage lighting pointing away from the layout.

The lights were interesting. They were red, blue and yellow (I think) LEDs in a spot. To adjust them, the lighting technician used an app on a mobile phone, to adjust the colour balance, on or off and direction. Very impressive. Probably beyond the spending power of the average layout.

[Paul Willis]

I had problems at St Albans with the stage lighting. It was high level LEDs. Dreadful colour balance, made the layout look like a heavy frost, apart from the bars of normal colour caused by the beams carrying the strip lights.

Cured by getting the stage lighting pointing away from the layout.

The lights were interesting. They were red, blue and yellow (I think) LEDs in a spot. To adjust them, the lighting technician used an app on a mobile phone, to adjust the colour balance, on or off and direction. Very impressive. Probably beyond the spending power of the average layout.

Wot? Thirty eight quid? Plus the cost of the appropriate LED strip itself.

http://www.simplelighting.co.uk/product ... -Tape.html

At that price I'm tempted to have a play myself. And I'm sure that it's tax-deductible as well

Flymo

[Terry Bendall]

They were red, blue and yellow (I think) LEDs in a spot. To adjust them, the lighting technician used an app on a mobile phone, to adjust the colour balance, on or off and direction.

They probably were red, blue and yellow, since with light when you blend these three colours together you get white light. I have not played with stage lighting for about 25 years so things will have moved on a lot since the days of filiment lamps and thrystor dimmers. You could of course have lots of fun with lighting on a layout. I remember seeing Shirley Rowe's layout at St Albans many years ago in a dark corner and the lighting went through a 24 hour sequence. It was a small town scene set in Spain and the trains were almost incidental to the rest of the layout but it was very nicely done.

Terry Bendall

[Tim V]

Wot? Thirty eight quid? Plus the cost of the appropriate LED strip itself.

http://www.simplelighting.co.uk/product ... -Tape.html

At that price I'm tempted to have a play myself. And I'm sure that it's tax-deductible as well

Flymo

I was talking about the stage lights!

I also don't think it would be tax deductible.....

[DougN]

I think some one has had to do their tax return and the deduction thing might be a bit stuck!... only another 7 months till I have to do mine again ....this years going to be a &^^%&^% type one.

[Tim Hale]

The chrome units were unusable due to their awkward design, so i looked at the use of LEDs in other units. A fortuitous Ebay purchase of linkable cabinet lights, which were a bargain at just £8.00 including the fluorescent tubes, but these have been replaced with LEDs. The result is a pleasant cool light that was easy to install, benefitting from their intended use for the DIY trade, this has the added bonus of easy to source.

No need for separate transformers or indeed any extraneous wiring as everything is mains and is supplied with special links to connect the units. Finally, they are much lighter than the GU10s which is useful for a long unsupported pelmet.

Tim

[Paul Willis]

The chrome units were unusable due to their awkward design, so i looked at the use of LEDs in other units. A fortuitous Ebay purchase of linkable cabinet lights, which were a bargain at just £8.00 including the fluorescent tubes, but these have been replaced with LEDs. The result is a pleasant cool light that was easy to install, benefitting from their intended use for the DIY trade, this has the added bonus of easy to source.

No need for separate transformers or indeed any extraneous wiring as everything is mains and is supplied with special links to connect the units. Finally, they are much lighter than the GU10s which is useful for a long unsupported pelmet.

Very interesting Tim. Do you have a link, or some specific search term for Ebay?

As winter draws in I'm yet again returning to the struggle of thinking that I have insufficient light above the workbench, let alone on any putative layout.

Cheers
Flymo