1st P4 layout - Endex

Tell us about your layout, where you put it, how you built it, how you operate it.
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Knuckles
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1st P4 layout - Endex

Postby Knuckles » Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:55 pm

Rather than crack straight on with one of my main plans...

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I decided to play it safe and do this plan...

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probably the corner of a steel works. Unsure.

I've finally arrived at that golden area; started on a new layout.

This is a start on the mini lauout I proposed in the other thread...
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2133&start=25

It isn't my main layout idea but something to do while I finish sorting the loft out. Actually it serves severel purposes that will be more clear if they are listed.

1) Allow me to make copious amounts of balls-ups wich I hope won't be repeated on my more serious planned layout/s.

2) Allow some 'light relief' modelling if the other planned layout/s start to get stressfull or whatever. Being less serious I can just relax and not worry too much on accuracy.

3) To try different building methods and techniques, including turnout operation, wiring, lighting and a few other ideas I have up my sleeve.

4) To provide a small test track for future locomotive/rolling stock builds/conversions.

5) To provide a 'real' setting to photograph any models once complete rather than using my work desk.

6) Give me some wood working practice, other than a dabble at school over a decade ago I have none.

7) Have some fun! Mostly shunting due to small size. Also a testbed for coupling types.

As a first post on this I've brought progress. Without wishing to offend the baseboard is in my eyes a bit of an 'abortion effort.' It's not my first layout but it's my first attempt at any semi serious woodwork. It isn't that neat and a bit of a hotchpotch of scraps. The sides and top wete cut at a timber merchant though. Due to me having little experience, an uneven floor, a Mitre saw that I think is 'out' and 6mm plywood that I think us a tad thin-the middle section in the middle bows by a scale foot over 2 feet start to finish. Why? I think it wss the above problems, either way I'll try to learn from it for serious layouts later. Balls-up 1 complete.

Rather than start again I'm going to remidy it by packing it with Balsa wood strips (already started and it is leveling fine) this being an industrial layout (still not definetly decided what) will probably give the ground level that lumpy look anyway, so might actually help.

The board was pretty wobbily like a suspension bridge until I added all the strengthers. Nice and rigid now. The cut outs are for a bridge etc.

Image

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Construction is hot glue gun plus tacks. I tried screws but due to the plywood being so thin I snapped two small drill bits when doing pilot holes. Use thicker wood and a bigger pilot/screw. More lessons learnt. Seems this mini layout is proving worthwhile so far. Aside from the kack of skill, bodges and roughness, do you havd suggestions or comments? :-)
Last edited by Knuckles on Mon May 22, 2017 12:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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DougN
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Re: 1st P4 layout

Postby DougN » Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:23 pm

Knuckles, the carpentry is one aspect that a lot of people struggle with. Some suggestions

As you have found 6mm is too thin. Next time 9mm for narrow sections but if your muscles can deal with it go for 12(you can get screws into the side more easily).
Mitre saw being "out" this can be checked with a "square" which can be just a cheap and cheerful plast carpenters square. My Ryobi mitre compound is out by about 3 mm at the full reach set at 90degrees.... therefore I don't trust it either. ( I want one of the big Makita saws but at $800AUD the boss,swmbo, keeps saying no)
Hot Glue gun- if it is working and I see no reason why it shouldn't will be fine. I just don't see the volumn of hot glue getting full coverage but that is more me. I think next time I will be using gorilla glue which is a "expanding" polyurethane
How are your legs? Can I suggest using Aluminium section screwed together. I have been thinking about using the plastic connectors that are a sliding fit screwed to the base board that the square hollow section slides onto. I think you cen even buy adjustible slip in feet.
Breaking Drill bits - I think this might be a practice/ clamping problem. the only time drill bits break are when they have a lateral load on them. So it is a technique to drill square and keep the movement of the drill straight. If you are using a cordless have the speed as high as you can, the 2 advantages is the cutting of the drill will be easier and the movement becomes more fluid as the bit will "pull" the drill in. One thing is to make sure that all the work peices are clamped, and won't move around on you. I now have quite a collection of clamps for this reason. the big warehouse style chains do have some cheaper (not I didn't say cheapest) fast action pistol style clamps for not crazy money. I tended to buy the 2 packs of about a foot long. though there are some that can be over 3ft long but that is getting silly :) .... though I can think of some uses.

I should point out that like unbuilt kits, power & hand tools can become an expensive habit, sorry, collection.
Doug
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Terry Bendall
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Re: 1st P4 layout

Postby Terry Bendall » Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:28 am

Knuckles

Scalefour News 170 - 177 contained my series on baseboard building which you may find useful to look at. As with many other things in modelling, there is more than one way of doing this particular job, but I know the methods I use work. Other methods also work. I think that 6mm ply is a bit too thin, unless it is well braced or you use a box girder construction with thin ply each side of wooden blocks. Certainly screws into the edge of 6mm ply won't work. The thinnest wood screw that is generally available is a No2 gauge which is about 2 mm diameter. Putting these into the edge of 6mm ply will cause the layers to split apart, unless you clamp a wood block each side.

Glue guns have their uses but the problem with them is that the glue starts to cool down as soon as it leaves the nozzle. For something like the joint in a baseboard, by the time glue has been aplied to the joint, you have put the glue gun down and picked up the second piece, the glue will have cooled down and lost its stickability. I have not used it, but the "No more nails" type of glue might be better although my preference is always for PVA glue and clamping, screwing or nailing the parts together whilst the glue dries.

With any machine, it is always agood idea to check it for accuracy before use and if you can, before you buy it. Any decent supplier should be prepared to allow this. As with any other tool, always buy the best that you can afford and recognise that the lower the price the less likely the tool is to be accurate and long lasting. Getting strips cut in a timber supplier is a good idea as ling as their machines are accurate, but normally you will have to pay for the service.

DougN wrote:Mitre saw being "out" this can be checked with a "square" which can be just a cheap and cheerful plast carpenters square.


I would go for an accuarate engineer's try square. A moulded plastic one may not have a 90 degree angle. The way to check is to lay the square on a piece of wood and press the stock (the thicker part) tight to the edge and draw a line along the edge of the blade. Then flip the square over. If the line drawn is parallel to the blade then you have a 90 degree angle.

Terry Bendall

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Re: 1st P4 layout

Postby David Knight » Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:27 pm

Hi Knuckles,

A quick look at your track plan seems to indicate no room for a run-around so that all the sidings can be shunted. May I suggest a look at http://www.carendt.us/microplans/index.html and check out the many variations on the "timesaver" theme? It should be possible to work in the extra switches somewhere around the green shed. All it takes is the ability to run around one wagon to open up many more moves.

Cheers,

David

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Knuckles
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Re: 1st P4 layout

Postby Knuckles » Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:39 am

Hi DougN.
The local timber merchant only goes up to 9mm, but 12 would be nice. I'll definetly go thicker next time. The hot glue gun works well but you have to work fast otherwise it dries hard before you've stuck it to the other bit of wood-so you have to peel it off and start again! Better to use something else (as you suggest) for other bits, might try that glue you mentioned. For small bits hot glue gun is a real boon, grabs fast and strong.
How are your legs? Can I suggest using Aluminium section screwed together.

I don't have any legs, just a small baton on the wall and (as a tempory measure) a tripod bodged with a square plate of wood for the other end. Will be looking to get some mini legs for this though. This end is supported on my drawers.

Breaking Drill bits - I think this might be a practice/ clamping problem. the only time drill bits break are when they have a lateral load on them. So it is a technique to drill square and keep the movement of the drill straight. If you are using a cordless have the speed as high as you can, the 2 advantages is the cutting of the drill will be easier and the movement becomes more fluid as the bit will "pull" the drill in. One thing is to make sure that all the work peices are clamped, and won't move around on you. I now have quite a collection of clamps for this reason.
Noted!

I should point out that like unbuilt kits, power & hand tools can become an expensive habit, sorry, collection.
I have many hand tools but most of them are for small modelling work as apposed to baseboard type stuff. Thanks for the help. :)

To Terry.
Certainly screws into the edge of 6mm ply won't work. The thinnest wood screw that is generally available is a No2 gauge which is about 2 mm diameter. Putting these into the edge of 6mm ply will cause the layers to split apart, unless you clamp a wood block each side.
I found even some of the thicker tacks I was using would split the ply sometimes, was a literally a case of hit and miss. Some were ok, others were not. :(

Glue guns have their uses but the problem with them is that the glue starts to cool down as soon as it leaves the nozzle. For something like the joint in a baseboard, by the time glue has been aplied to the joint, you have put the glue gun down and picked up the second piece, the glue will have cooled down and lost its stickability.
I can't deny this and it did casue a few problems, but for small strengthener peices I've found it more suitable as it is a quicker task. For bigger bits I'll definetly be looking for something else.

With any machine, it is always agood idea to check it for accuracy before use and if you can, before you buy it. Any decent supplier should be prepared to allow this. As with any other tool, always buy the best that you can afford and recognise that the lower the price the less likely the tool is to be accurate and long lasting. Getting strips cut in a timber supplier is a good idea as ling as their machines are accurate, but normally you will have to pay for the service.

I'm still suspecting the Mitre saw, and as DougN said he was unsure of one I'll take that as proof they can be 'out', might have to get a new one. Buying at that timber merchant was the best thing I did becasue they cut it saving you a job, but it also ended up much cheaper than in the big hardware stoors that probably wouldn't cut it.
To Davnigh.
I was thinking of doing the Timesaver plan (you can see one in my other thread with earlier plans) but decided in the end not to. Reason being I didn't like the short shunt lengths at each side, wanted to preserve some room for scenics/buildings and thought if I kept it as it currently is then I already have the turnouts built. Operationally it will be more limited I understand, as can be read in this thread so far though I think doing this mini layout is proving to be worthwhile. Can make all the balls ups on this without it hurting things too much.

Thanks for the responces, it's took a while to reply becasue I wanted to use my computor and not my phone to do so. Phone typing takes ages and is sometimes impossible to correct typo errors due to the curser being a swine!
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Re: 1st P4 layout

Postby LesGros » Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:03 am

Knuckles wrote:
...I'm still suspecting the Mitre saw, and as DougN said he was unsure of one I'll take that as proof they can be 'out', might have to get a new one. Buying at that timber merchant was the best thing I did becasue they cut it saving you a job, but it also ended up much cheaper than in the big hardware stoors that probably wouldn't cut it. ]


it is possible that wear can cause inacuracy over time. The solution is to make a few cuts on scrap wood, and check for finished accuracy of the cut with a try-square, then re-set the saw angle(s) as required It helps to number the sides of the timber, keeping the same one to the fence .
Also check that the fence is still at 90 degrees to the table. Another source of error is that planed wood is not always supplied accurately parallel. Always setting the same face to the fence will eliminate the problem produced by the wedge shaped stick. As you can see, good quality wood is essential if you wish to avoid time conuming "planing square" by hand.

Finally, if you cannot get accurate cuts because of too much wear on the mechanism, then it is time to bite the bullet and replace it with as good a quality machine that you can afford [eg Bosch, De-walt- Makita]
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Knuckles
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Re: 1st P4 layout

Postby Knuckles » Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:46 pm

Thanks LesG', I'm going to discuss and transfer these advices to my Dad because I actually borrowed the Mitre saw from Him. If it needs replacing I'll get one. I'm not a fan of cheapo equipment either. If it's too cheap it causes more trouble than it's worth. :? He has had it for a while.
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Re: 1st P4 layout

Postby Terry Bendall » Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:27 am

Knuckles wrote:Buying at that timber merchant was the best thing I did becasue they cut it saving you a job, but it also ended up much cheaper than in the big hardware stoors that probably wouldn't cut it.


Thius is always a good move and hopefully you are dealing with people who know about timber. Finding such a place is another matter. Another good place for those who can is to use one of the Wicks stores who are in a lot of the larger towns, at least in the southern part of the country. A good selection, reasonal price and qualiity and supplied in 2.4 metre lengths that can fit in some cars (or on a roof rack). No cutting service however.

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LesGros
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Re: 1st P4 layout

Postby LesGros » Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:06 pm

Terry Bendall wrote:
... Another good place for those who can is to use one of the Wicks stores who are in a lot of the larger towns, at least in the southern part of the country. A good selection, reasonal price and qualiity and supplied in 2.4 metre lengths that can fit in some cars (or on a roof rack). No cutting service however...


In this part of the world B&Q and Homebase have a cutting service for sheet material; :thumb very handy for the 1200mm x 95mm wide strips for the sandwich beam method of construction.
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Knuckles
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Re: 1st P4 layout

Postby Knuckles » Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:20 pm

Small progress report.

Due to the bow in the middle I've had to play silly buggers packing it. I chose balsa strips as I find it easy to use and cut. C&L 3mm foam as a track bed has been used. nit tried foam before only cork. Anyone know if this type will perish or not? Some crumble apparently.

Most of the track is laid and ballasted, just needs a few sidings to be compkete.

I used Norman Solomon's method of PVA glue down first, then the track seated into this followed by ballast on topm After about 5 minutes the vacuum cleaner removed the excess. Result? Amazingly neat, convincing and quick, much to my supprise. . Point blades only had a few rocks in the way.

Currently I'm just waiting for it all to dry then I'll remove the weights. Pics to come after that in a day ir few.
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Re: 1st P4 layout

Postby Armchair Modeller » Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:58 pm

Wow! That sound like incredibly fast work. Looking forward very much to seeing the pictures. :thumb

You really are making me feel ashamed about my own lack of progress. I shall have to try harder! ;)

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Paul Willis
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Re: 1st P4 layout

Postby Paul Willis » Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:38 pm

Terry Bendall wrote:This is always a good move and hopefully you are dealing with people who know about timber. Finding such a place is another matter. Another good place for those who can is to use one of the Wicks stores who are in a lot of the larger towns, at least in the southern part of the country. A good selection, reasonable price and quality and supplied in 2.4 metre lengths that can fit in some cars (or on a roof rack). No cutting service however.


Oddly enough, I think that my local Wickes is one of the fee places around here that will cut timber to size for you...

I've never had it done there myself, yet I'm sure that down the back (next to the loft ladders, and opposite the drainage pipes) is a small area equipped with cutting gear. Next time that I'm in there (which at certain points of house refurbishment can be virtually every day!) I'll have a look.

Cheers
Flymo

PS - to the problem of long lengths of timber, I just leave the roof at home :-)
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Re: 1st P4 layout

Postby Terry Bendall » Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:36 am

Flymo748 wrote:PS - to the problem of long lengths of timber, I just leave the roof at home


Thanks OK for those who drive these fancy sports cars! The rest of us will need a roof rack or an estate car with room inside. :D

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Knuckles
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Re: 1st P4 layout

Postby Knuckles » Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:58 am

Update:
Bodge Jobs, Balls-Ups, & Pigs Ears!

As forecast here are a few pictures. I am yet to lay the four exits but that will be done soon as I wanted the 'harder' bits done first. Due to my faulty board build I used Balsa wood and C&L 3mm foam as the packing and trackbed. Most of it has gone ok but a few bits where the track joins hasdecided to be at a different height. To remedy this I soldered metal fishplates as a solid join whilst holding the track in place and height with pliers. I however faltered as I forgot (3 times!) that you need to keep the Frogs isolated. So I cut the soldered join with a mini disk, that way it still retains a little of the fish plate look. Should have just glued plastic ones there in the first place and done what is described below.... :shock:
Bodge job, due to the above method being a fail I this time had to hammer in a couple of pins next to the rail, and then solder the track to the pin thus setting the rail at the same height to the adjacient. I did initially try tacking a pin through the sleeper but this produced an epic fail with much visual interest! Looks a bit of a mess, but as I keep saying; this is my suck it and see layout in P4, can learn from all these mistakes as I go along and if I manage to start the bigger plans one day.
Not all the track bed and sides have been laid yet, but it'll be brought to the same heights later. The ballast is Javis 'Extra Fine' but to me it's still a tad fat, better than previous 00 efforts anyway. I used Normon Solomons method of spreading the base with PVA glue and theen laying the track on top followed by ballast on top of that, five minutes later and you can vacuum the rest up - looks great to my eye. it looks better than my last ballasting job on my 00 layout by miles so I'm happy.
Post Act Wisdom tells me I should have spray painted the plastic tracked sleepers before layout but never mind, I'll have to summon Peter Paintbrush and share a nice brew him..it,..whatever. The last picture shows a really wonky siding that I doubt any deicent loco would tremble to trundle, but as mostly wagons only are going down there I'll leave it and use the 'industrial line' excuse once more. Hope ye P4 n00bs are all learning from my feeble efforts/results. :D

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Will L
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Re: 1st P4 layout

Postby Will L » Thu Sep 20, 2012 5:50 pm

Personally I find that real track that's been down for a significant length of time tends to have an all over rust colour wash, which is best reproduced by airbrushing rust coloured paint over the rail, sleepers and ballast all in one go. If you haven't painted the rail before you started, then never mind, the airbrush will allow you to paint the rail/sleepers with reasonable accuracy, and any over spray on the ballast just fits in with the thinner coat you would have needed to give it anyway. All that's then left is to load up the air brush with grey/black and deal with the dirty bits where the loco's would have stood in the platform etc.

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Knuckles
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Re: 1st P4 layout

Postby Knuckles » Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:27 am

Thanks for the advice Will. I can't take it though because I can't use the airbrush in my room. I only ever use it in the shed.

I am however supprised at how easy and fun brush painting track can be. Neatness is only needed in a few areas so a slightly thinned mix seems to work. Not all track is laid but I have painted what is. I have not finished painting it but it oooks to my aye pretty good so far. Ive only used two coloures; Humbrol 32 and 62 Matt, just mixed differently in combination. One is a sort of brown lether colour and the other a kind of dark grey. Might add other colours but I'm awere too much is not convincing. Maybe a bit of grease on slide chairs.

Neither pic shows the true colours they are so here is a pic both with and without a flash, use your imagination. :-\

Image

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And a pic of my current congregation of P4 converts sitting in their pews.

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Re: 1st P4 layout

Postby Knuckles » Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:56 pm

It's been a long time since I have done an update so for those of you who may be interested here is the story so far. Due to the back log there are about 11 photo's.

The middle siding is my attempt at replicating that tasty combination of ash, oil, coal and crap you often see around steam engine sheds areas. Fine filler plaster mixed with PVA glue and some grey paint is the medium of choice, splodged and smudged into position and shape by the finger. For some reason I painted it brown, why? I don't know, maybie I was bored, maybie I was after a 'feel', can't really remember.

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This is it after more layers and about ready roughly. Had to make a small flange clearance but due to P4's flanges being so small it was easy.
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After some tweaking (maybe more layers) and paint it's roughly done. This is the close up.
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General view with truck acting as a scenic prop.
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On the other side things are different. I have been expreimenting to create inset congrete. There are many methods I've read but I thought I'd have a go at inventing one (no doubt someone already beat me to it). Seeing as I was using 1 and 2mm thick bits of Balsa Wood and I had a lot left over, after checking the heights seemed usable, so I cut it to shape, glued it in place with contact adhesive, applied weights and left it. Once the wood was in place a few thin skims of aforementioned plaster/pva/paint mixture was applied. Because this layout is an exercice in experimentation and to have an industrial scabby theme I thought it acceptable to make a bodge mess of the concrete presentation! Pot holes, unueven bits where I later wish to add weeds and a few puddles I think will add character to it too. One thing that I deem good about this method is that it isn't heavy and if you want to cut into it to bed anything in you don't need a pnumatic drill and a rucksack full of HE.
This picture shows a thin wash before the more 'real' colour was applied. I added it just in case things cracked as it in theory might give some shadow depth.
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And after I think the first proper grey layer. Isn't finished yet but you get the idea.
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I've never ever ever ever ever wired a model railway before, which is one out of 3 main reasons my last layout didn't work very well. I've since read a lot of books on model railway wiring. I'm still 80% clueless but I've learned a few things. What is scaring me the most is how to wire the Tortoise point motors. +,- and 1 auxilary to each frog? I don't know, plus I want to make a mini removable control panel with D connector things. unnessasary on such a small layout, but would be good practice to prepare for the bigger plans. I wish to go DCC this time so I'm going for the DCC Bus method. Wisdom has dictated that Id I install the Bus wires and track feeds now I can worry about the points until I have brought them so today I drilled 5 holes through each section, screwed a few 'Picture holder loop eye thingies' into the baseboard and threaded/soldered some ripped out mains copper to it.
Oh and also implemented a SCSCFS (Super Cheap, Super Crude Fail-Safe) to the mix. Black and Red felt marker. :D
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I've done a few more feeds off camera but you get the idea. I'm using DCC Concepts No Clean Flux so I can solder to the steel without rusting. After the trouble I had before I did some research, brought a bottle and am now finding it hard to look back. Isn't 'quite' as grab easy as Carr's Fluxes that I normally use but with the iron cranked to 450c it soon complies in a panic.
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Last 3 pics, general impressions so far. Concrete bit with scaby chipped area. (or unfinished, badly done if you prefer)
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Erm, just a view.
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And the shed area again after some lighter washes. Not sure about this as it looks like concrete again, might blacken it as before.
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If you have any thoughts good or bad please say. :)
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Re: 1st P4 layout

Postby DougN » Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:03 am

Knuckles, well done, the yard like look caked in oil, dust, coal, and other dubious detritus. Looks to be exacatly what you see around loco yards on the preservied railways. IF you can beg or borrow (or if you have to buy) the right track DVD on Scenic bits. I know that Barry Norman used a similar technique to get the same type of finish to his yard. there is a few other good ideas in the DVD's also. Dare I say keep up the good work.
Doug
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Knuckles
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Re: 1st P4 layout

Postby Knuckles » Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:36 am

Thanks DougN,

Do you think the latest pic is right or the earlier blacker ones? I added grey washes but it lightened it so much it is looking like concrete. So now I don't know weather to re-blacken it or build the layers a lityle more and have it as really dirty dmoky concrete similar to how it currently looks. :-\

All but the latest weathering DVD, Copenhagen Fields and the Over Plover thing I have in my posession. Bit of a right track fan to be honest!
Quite often I watch them for relaxing entertainment, also Tony Wright makes me giggle with the things he comes out with.
Call me sad if you want. :-D
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Mike Garwood
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Re: 1st P4 layout

Postby Mike Garwood » Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:26 pm

Well done 'SAD', strange name :D , looks really good, you haven't mentioned running any locos through it all yet...have you run some freight movements. You've put me to shame in doing this so rapidly, my Hengoed High Level is still in the planning stage!

Mike

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Knuckles
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Re: 1st P4 layout

Postby Knuckles » Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:12 pm

Thanks Mike. :-)
I have ran wagons through it all a few times and still do, but as there is no power yet and the wiring just started I cannot realistically run my only P4 ooco through it. Could power two lines and have it go as far as a frog but I'll wait.
“He who dares not offend cannot be honest.” Thomas Paine

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Mostly 3D Printed Loco kits etc.

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https://www.sparkshotcustomcreations.co ... e77d42.pdf

Chris Mitton
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Re: 1st P4 layout

Postby Chris Mitton » Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:39 pm

Knuckles wrote:What is scaring me the most is how to wire the Tortoise point motors. +,- and 1 auxilary to each frog?

Hi Knuckles

Wiring a Tortoise is quite un-intimidating really! There are eight pins on it: if you connect a supply to the outer pins (1 and 8) - the actual voltage isn't critical, I tried mine out quite satisfactorily with a 9V battery and loose wires! - the motor will push the stretcher-bar wire from one end to the other; reverse the polarity and it will go back, so you need to connect the motor via a changeover switch on your control panel. The other pins need connecting to the rails: the makers claim it will switch up to 1 amp, but as the V-crossing (frog) carries full traction current I connected both sets of terminals in parallel, you might get away with only one set. Pins 2 and 6 go to one stock rail, pins 3 and 7 to the other, and 4 and 5 go to the v-crossing. A bit of experiment (and preferably a good test meter) may be needed to get things the right way round.....
Of course you can wire a changeover switch to pins 1 and 8 on two Tortoises in parallel, so you get both turnouts in a crossover moving prototypically in unison.

You can download the Tortoise instructions from http://www.circuitron.com/index_files/INS/800-6000ins.pdf - I'd attach it but would probably breach someone's copyright.

Hope this is helpful,
Regards
Chris

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Knuckles
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Re: 1st P4 layout

Postby Knuckles » Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:29 pm

Thanks for the advice. Ive read it twice and still am a little confused. (I read instructions a while ago though)

So are you saying each stock rail needs two wires and also the frog needs two wires each? If so I'm confused! I thought each rail would have just one wire going to it unless there was a component to complete a functional circuit.

Those above wires equals six so I guess the other two are positive/negative with a switch. Guess.
“He who dares not offend cannot be honest.” Thomas Paine

https://www.sparkshotcustomcreations.com/
Mostly 3D Printed Loco kits etc.

SCC Price list (7/4/22)
https://www.sparkshotcustomcreations.co ... e77d42.pdf

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grovenor-2685
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Re: 1st P4 layout

Postby grovenor-2685 » Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:49 pm

Hi,
You need to separate out these concepts in your mind to avoid confusion:

1. Operating the point motor to change the points, this is the connection to pins 1 & 8 on the tortoise, nothing to do with the track, the tortoise instructions give 2 or 3 options, just choose one, they all work. And as indicated above you can test it simply with a 9V battery.

2. Switching logic for the frog, the frog needs to be connected either to the black or red wires on your bus depending on the position of the points, use either of the contacts on the tortoise for this, or a spare contact on the panel switch, if using a plug in panel then best to use the tortoise.

3. Doubling up for reliability, not really an issue with your small demo tracks, but it is usually recommended to install 2 droppers to each piece of rail, so if one breaks or the solder fails you don't lose power. Chris's suggestion to double up on the tortoise contacts is another variation on this theme, allows for a contact failure. Mostly I double up on droppers but not on tortoise contacts, never found any problem with those.
Regards
Keith
Regards
Keith
Grovenor Sidings

DougN
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Re: 1st P4 layout

Postby DougN » Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:55 am

Well I don't think I will go as far as Mike and call you "SAD" the DVD's show the limited pallet of colours that are need for weathering and making things look a little more prototypical. Toning every thing down with a mist (well thinned) of 50:50 matt black and leather weathering seems to be a big one on the DVD's. the one that surprised me was the "chocolate" to the sides of the rails. I still havn't had the courage to have a go at weathering stock too much. I did try but the brown was a bit light and as it was time to pack up the air brush everything didn't work out. :( must give it another try.

Personally I like to have a train running by every so offten on the TV. So I have a subscription to transport video and receive a DVD of the latest Preserved steam in the UK every 2 months.... drives the kids mad when they want to watch the childrens programs :twisted:
Doug
Still not doing enough modelling


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