The Burford Branch

Tell us about your layout, where you put it, how you built it, how you operate it.
martin goodall
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Re: The Burford Branch

Postby martin goodall » Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:16 pm

It was only after I had posted the two photos above that I realised that the oil lamp tops were out of true.

A quick tweak with the fingers was enough to sort this out. I haven't photographed this correction, but those of you who may have noticed the fault can rest assured that it has now been remedied.

martin goodall
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Re: The Burford Branch

Postby martin goodall » Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:35 pm

Further progress on the bridge has included adding the piers, buttresses or pilasters (whatever you prefer to call them) on either side of the main arch on the Downward face of the bridge and at the point where the approach to the bridge turns through an angle, plus filling in the facing stone at this end of the bridge.

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I have deferred adding the string course and the parapet for the time being.

The next job will be turning the subsidiary arch, which spans the engine siding, before completing the stone facing on the Down side of the bridge.

martin goodall
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Re: The Burford Branch

Postby martin goodall » Wed Apr 29, 2020 7:19 pm

Before moving on with further work on the stone facing of the bridge, I decided that I really must sort out a few design details that had not previously been resolved, such as the precise height of the bridge parapets, how far they should extend at the end of the bridge nearest the front of the baseboard, and how to arrange the wing walls at that end of the bridge. This also required a decision as to the precise footprint of the approach embankment on each side of the bridge. The site for the embankment has now been cleared.

IMG_6146.JPG

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Work then turned to the secondary arch, which spans the engine siding, in the same order that I had adopted in building the main arch - first building the abutments, with their imposts/springs for the arch, then adding voussoirs and springers to the face of the arch, before adding piers on either side of this face of the arch, and then infilling the spandrels above the arch up to string course level.

IMG_6155.JPG

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The Up side of the bridge is still plain for the moment. Stone facing similar to that on the Down side will be added later.

IMG_6163.JPG

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The underside of the second arch (the soffit or intrados) will be dealt with next.

martin goodall
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Re: The Burford Branch

Postby martin goodall » Sun May 03, 2020 2:33 pm

The second arch was formed in a different way from the main arch, due to its narrower radius. I decided to stick formers across the arch in this case, rather than longitudinally. The formers were cut to the same radius as the underside of the voussoirs on the faces of the arch, plus a slight allowance for the 20-thou thickness of the styrene sheet that would be used to form the underside (the soffit or intrados) of the arch.

IMG_6169.JPG


For ease of fitting, I cut the styrene sheet for the soffit in two halves, which would be joined longitudinally. In order to ensure a reasonably smooth joint in the middle, I decided to add a longitudinal ‘spine’ to the formers, to which the edges of the two halves would be stuck where they join in the middle.

IMG_6172.JPG


The larger radius of the soffit of the main arch was easily formed by bending between the fingers but, to be on the safe side, I decided to heat-form the radius of the soffit of this smaller arch, by strapping both halves of the styrene sheet to a suitable tin can, using Sellotape ‘hot tape’, and for good measure I then wrapped the can in parcel tape, before pouring boiling water into the can. After a couple of minutes this was replaced with cold water, before unwrapping the parcel tape and taking off the ‘hot tape’ to reveal the curved shape of the two pieces of styrene sheet.

Members are no doubt familiar with this technique (which is also useful for forming van roofs). I forgot to photograph this when I did it, so I took this next photograph afterwards, using one of the card templates that I had cut out earlier when checking the correct shape for the two halves of the soffit, and simply using standard Sellotape for the purposes of illustration.

IMG_6173.JPG


The radius of the styrene sheet did not have to be exact; it was easily adapted to the right radius to fit snugly against the formers, to which it was cemented while being held firmly in position. I wanted to get the join in the middle reasonably smooth, but an exact fit was not essential, as any minor discrepancies will (I hope) be covered by brick paper later.

IMG_6178.JPG


IMG 6175A.jpg


The slight gap between the abutment and the pier on the left will be filled with Squadron White Putty before painting.

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jim s-w
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Re: The Burford Branch

Postby jim s-w » Sun May 03, 2020 3:23 pm

Good stuff Martin.

martin goodall
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Re: The Burford Branch

Postby martin goodall » Fri May 15, 2020 9:56 pm

By the time I posted the last set of photos of the bridge, I was beginning to get a bit bored with this model. So I took a week off and indulged in some armchair modelling instead (mainly browsing through old model magazines). After this short break, I got on with adding the stone facing to the Up side of the bridge.

I dealt with things in a slightly different order on this side of the bridge, starting with the piers. The first shot shows the faces of the piers propped in place after they had been built up to the required height. This side of the bridge will be seen only obliquely at an acute angle, so I did not bother to sand down the face of the stonework on this side of the bridge.

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Each of the piers was assembled and stuck in place.

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and the spaces between the piers were then infilled with facing stone.

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This is as far as this side of the bridge has progressed so far.

IMG_6199.JPG

The spandrels of each arch will be infilled next, before dealing with the parapets and wing walls.

martin goodall
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Re: The Burford Branch

Postby martin goodall » Fri May 29, 2020 9:01 pm

While the ‘lockdown’ drags on, I have continued to make slow progress on the bridge. The complexities of this structure, with its buttresses, pilasters and parapets has made this a time-consuming project.

My attention in the past two weeks has been concentrated on the Up side of the bridge, first adding the spandrels of the two arches.

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After adding the string course, I added the various sections of the parapet, and added spacers for the pilasters.

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The pilasters above the buttresses were then added, together with an extra length of string course and section of parapet.
(Capping stones will be added after the inner faces of the parapets are added later.)

IMG_6233.JPG

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I will deal with the remaining facing stone on this side of the bridge, together with the adjoining wing wall, later.

The next job will be to add parapets and pilasters to the Down side of the bridge. So far, it’s got as far as the string course.

IMG_6214.JPG
Last edited by martin goodall on Sun May 31, 2020 8:54 am, edited 2 times in total.

DougN
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Re: The Burford Branch

Postby DougN » Fri May 29, 2020 9:46 pm

Martin the bridge is looking fantastic. I can understand how this is taking so long. The strange question is how are you cutting the wills sheet as at is so thick?
Doug
Still not doing enough modelling

martin goodall
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Re: The Burford Branch

Postby martin goodall » Fri May 29, 2020 10:27 pm

Thanks, Doug, for that encouragement.

Over the years, I have used various methods for cutting Wills scenic sheets, but in the case of this model I have used only a Stanley trimming knife (with a sharp blade, changing the blade when necessary). I cut from the back of the sheet against a heavy steel straightedge, so as to keep the cut straight. It requires repeated passes with the knife. If you cut into the front of the sheet, the blade may wander to follow the moulded stone courses. Edges sometimes need slight cleaning up with a file. I don't try to snap the sheet (as one can after scoring ordinary styrene sheet), because the moulded sheet may not part cleanly.

I had to make some large-radius curved cuts. These are not as difficult as you might think. After carefully marking out the curve with a pencil, I carefully follow the line with a craft knife, to mark the cut clearly, so that it can be followed by the blade of a trimming knife. This is done free-hand, which is a lot easier than it sounds. This line can then be deepened with the Stanley trimming knife, again following the line free-hand. With care, an accurate curve can be cut, with repeated passes of the knife until it breaks through. It simply needs patience. Any necessary cleaning up or adjustment can be done with a file. (In the case of the spandrels for the two arches, I had kept the sheet from which the voussoirs had been cut, and these served as templates for marking out the spandrels with the pencil.)

Accurate fitting of adjoining components may need further filing in order to avoid gaps, but some slight gaps are unavoidable (as you can see in my photos), and these will be filled before painting.

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steve howe
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Re: The Burford Branch

Postby steve howe » Sat May 30, 2020 10:35 am

Really heroic effort with the Wills sheets Martin :thumb

I've used these sheets too, mainly for bridges or retaining walls and apart from the thickness, the biggest snag is the small size of the sheets. I find mitering the corners to 45* by rubbing the edge on a large coarse file gets good corners, but as Martin says, still need tidying up and the mortar courses continuing round, I do this with a coarse fretsaw blade and knife-edge file. Its messy work, but the result is worth the effort! I also sometimes 'point' the stonework after basic colouring with Polyfilla or tile grout, cleaned off when almost dry with a damp cloth, and weathered with thinned matt black/dark earth when dry, it just takes off the heavy moulded look of the Wills sheet.

Great stuff! :D

Steve

martin goodall
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Re: The Burford Branch

Postby martin goodall » Sun May 31, 2020 8:49 am

My efforts in the construction of this bridge pale into insignificance compared with the massive retaining wall and bridge abutment that my good friend Karl Crowther built on his Hebble Vale Goods layout, and which he described in MRJ 247.

I agree that the small size of the Wills scenic sheets is a potential problem, but in practice I have not found any real difficulty in joining the sheets seamlessly. It just needs a bit of care in matching them up, and also (where possible) arranging the joins in the most inconspicuous place. Several vertical and horizontal joints were required on this bridge.

As regards the texture of this particular Wills scenic sheet (SS MP 200), I reduced the moulded relief to some extent on the Down side of the bridge (facing towards the station) by rubbing down the surface, as described by David Cox in Railway Modeller in January 2006. But, because the Up side of the bridge is seen only obliquely at an acute angle, I didn’t bother to do this on that side of the bridge.

Like Steve Howe, I mitre the corners of the Wills sheets. Karl suggested that one can make a butt joint at the corner, and then cut or file stone courses around the corner to make good the surface on the return. I tried this out on one buttress, but couldn’t make it work to my satisfaction, and so I reverted to mitring the corners on the other buttresses.

If you look carefully at the photographs above, you will see that the stone courses are Imperfectly matched on the returns of the buttresses in some cases. It was in fact very difficult to match the courses here due to the batter on the buttresses, and so I have had to ‘fudge’ these joints. Like Steve Howe, I rounded off the corners slightly with a file, and used a knife-edged file and a scraper board stylus to incise the pointing around the corner wherever possible.

The final appearance of the model will depend very much on how it is painted and weathered. My intention is to ensure that the bridge blends in with the other buildings on the layout, which have been illustrated in earlier posts in this thread.

One final point which might be worth adding is that whenever one is constructing a model of a building or structure, after cutting out and assembling the main walls or structure, all further measurements should be taken from the model as built (not from your original drawings, which from this point should be treated simply as a guide to what you intended). This ensures that any dimensional discrepancies, which are bound to occur, are factored in to the further assembly of the model. On the bridge, I took all the measurements for the upper parts of the stone facing, the string course, the parapets, and the pilasters above the buttresses from datum (the baseboard surface), and then calculated the dimensions of the individual components from there.

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Will L
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Re: The Burford Branch

Postby Will L » Sun May 31, 2020 9:15 am

martin goodall wrote:...all further measurements should be taken from the model as built (not from your original drawings, which from this point should be treated simply as a guide to what you intended). ..

As in the finest traditions of British Victorian engineering! :D

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Flymo748
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Re: The Burford Branch

Postby Flymo748 » Sun May 31, 2020 4:00 pm

Will L wrote:
martin goodall wrote:...all further measurements should be taken from the model as built (not from your original drawings, which from this point should be treated simply as a guide to what you intended). ..

As in the finest traditions of British Victorian engineering! :D


Viz, Stratford works "Bench" drawings:

- the GA was what the locomotive designer intended

- the Bench drawing was what the bloke in the workshop actually built

We're fortunate that the GERS has copies of both ;-)

Cheers
Flymo
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www.5522models.co.uk

Terry Bendall
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Re: The Burford Branch

Postby Terry Bendall » Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:03 am

Flymo748 wrote:- the Bench drawing was what the bloke in the workshop actually built


An interesting book, "Life at Brighton Locomotive Works" has the following tale :

"Look Dan," says the Chief Draughtsman, "you know what we want you to fix up?"

"Course I do. I've done it many times before." says Dan.

"Right. Go back and fix it up in your way and we'll come over and make a new drawing to suit the job you've done," said the Chief Draughtsman. :)

Terry Bendall

philip-griffiths
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Re: The Burford Branch

Postby philip-griffiths » Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:26 am

Terry Bendall wrote:
Flymo748 wrote:- the Bench drawing was what the bloke in the workshop actually built


An interesting book, "Life at Brighton Locomotive Works" has the following tale :

"Look Dan," says the Chief Draughtsman, "you know what we want you to fix up?"

"Course I do. I've done it many times before." says Dan.

"Right. Go back and fix it up in your way and we'll come over and make a new drawing to suit the job you've done," said the Chief Draughtsman. :)

Terry Bendall


And this tradition continues in construction with “as built” CAD/BIM models.

martin goodall
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Re: The Burford Branch

Postby martin goodall » Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:25 am

I think this has always been pretty widespread in industry, and also in the construction industry. (Getting builders to follow the architect's drawings in detail and with complete accuracy is like trying to herd cats!)

Many years ago, I was involved (as a very junior assistant) in some litigation involving the chocking of marine engines. This is critical in order to ensure the accurate alignment of the propeller shafts. I learnt that shipyards routinely prepared a set of 'as built' drawings, which will be needed when the ship is refitted, because the naval architect's drawings will not show the actual alignment of the ship's machinery as installed in the shipyard. Our engine chocking case turned on this point.

DougN
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Re: The Burford Branch

Postby DougN » Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:15 am

Oi I heard cats every day! I have a day job trying to follow some errr, architects and engineers drawings... I spend more time trying to figure out how they came up with certain details that don't work. So i spend a lot of time trying to correct designs that don't comply with planning, building codes, keep the water out.... the list goes on. Please don't get me wrong we need designers and architects to put in place good design, liveable spaces, inspiring and useful spaces. I have a thought that the skills of good architects has been run down somewhat by the chase of the dollar. There is, as you have suggested, the person putting the thing together some latitude to build what the designer intended but didn't get on paper!
Doug
Still not doing enough modelling

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Noel
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Re: The Burford Branch

Postby Noel » Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:30 am

martin goodall wrote:I think this has always been pretty widespread in industry


Certainly much British industry, from what I read, especially the shipbuilding and aircraft industries; each ship or aircraft handbuilt by craftsmen and no two the same as a result, which accounts for the disaster area that was Nimrod and why we now have very little of either. Henry Ford would not have been impressed, and nor, actually, would most railway works, who, at least in latter days, expected a part off one loco to fit all the others in that class, and often other classes as well...
Regards
Noel

martin goodall
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Re: The Burford Branch

Postby martin goodall » Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:02 pm

I suspect that at Swindon Works there was a difference in the practices of the Locomotive Works and of the Carriage & Wagon Works.

In the loco works, the standardisation of components was started by William Dean and continued and developed by his successors, so that many parts were interchangeable, and the loco works prided themselves on the precision with which GWR locos were erected, especially the rods and motion. The work of the C&W works, on the other hand, was derived from traditional hand-crafted methods of woodworking, and it was in the coachbuilding that variations from the drawings were most likely to occur.

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Flymo748
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Re: The Burford Branch

Postby Flymo748 » Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:18 pm

Noel wrote:
martin goodall wrote:I think this has always been pretty widespread in industry


Certainly much British industry, from what I read, especially the shipbuilding and aircraft industries; each ship or aircraft handbuilt by craftsmen and no two the same as a result, which accounts for the disaster area that was Nimrod and why we now have very little of either. Henry Ford would not have been impressed, and nor, actually, would most railway works, who, at least in latter days, expected a part off one loco to fit all the others in that class, and often other classes as well...


Hey, I've owned and driven a TVR for twenty years.

IMG_2115.JPG


Just don't get me started on trying to follow the wiring in the car versus the workshop manual!

"Made in Blackpool, by Northern Blokes" ;-)

Cheers
Flymo
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www.5522models.co.uk

Philip Hall
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Re: The Burford Branch

Postby Philip Hall » Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:35 pm

Lovely car, Paul. I hope you have accommodating neighbours. Thirty years ago, in another house, we had installed a security alarm, linked to the police via a monitoring service. We had (unwisely) agreed to vibration sensors on the windows nearest the street. There was a bloke just up the street who owned a TVR with a really loud exhaust, and every so often he would roar off late into the night, setting the bells ringing in our house, waking us up and occasioning frantic phone calls to prevent arrival of the blue light brigade. After a while we gave up and had the sensitivity reduced almost to zero. I was quite pleased when my wife chose a MX-5...

Like the 48xx by the way. I have a few spare Riceworks bits should you have any casualties.

Philip

DougN
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Re: The Burford Branch

Postby DougN » Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:21 am

Ahh yes noisy cars. I once had a Monaro (5.7l V8 with upgraded exhaust) I didnt drive it hard as it would lose traction even on dry roads. My neighbours said that they could always hear the car start up.... 4 houses away! It was never a practical car. 2 door with 2 kids in car seats, manual (my partner cant drive manuals) massive boot but small opening... I was so happy when the boss changed it to a sedan, I had that car for 9 years, and no problems with the neighbours! :D
Doug
Still not doing enough modelling

martin goodall
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Re: The Burford Branch

Postby martin goodall » Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:02 am

On glancing through this thread again the other day, I noticed that several photos were still displaying upside down on the screen (even on a Lenovo PC). I have re-edited these, using ‘Paint’ (as recommended by Keith Norgrove) and I hope that I have finally corrected all the shots that were the wrong way up on the screen. Please let me know if there are still any photos anywhere in this thread that are not now displayed the right way up.

[Belated thanks to Alan Turner for his edit of the three photos in his post of Thursday 27 June 2019 (on Page 10), so that these three photos also now display right way upon all platforms. This was a post that Alan kindly contributed in an effort to resolve the issue which had arisen with my original post of those three photos.]

Now back to the saga of the bridge, after the recent diverting digressions. The facing stone on the parapets and pilasters on the Down side of the bridge has now been completed, and the next job will be to add the stone facing to the inside face of both parapets.

IMG_6236.JPG
Last edited by martin goodall on Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Guy Rixon
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Re: The Burford Branch

Postby Guy Rixon » Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:31 pm

Flymo748 wrote:
Will L wrote:
martin goodall wrote:...all further measurements should be taken from the model as built (not from your original drawings, which from this point should be treated simply as a guide to what you intended). ..

As in the finest traditions of British Victorian engineering! :D


Viz, Stratford works "Bench" drawings:

- the GA was what the locomotive designer intended

- the Bench drawing was what the bloke in the workshop actually built

We're fortunate that the GERS has copies of both ;-)

Cheers
Flymo


There's also the distinction between the GA drawings, which are often preserved, and the component drawings, which we often lack; this leads to weirdness on the GA. E.g. length of main springs on 7-ton wagons of the LNWR: the GAs don't state this and the drawn length between spring shoes varies significantly from GA to GA if you scale it from the prints. I think it goes like this:

1. GA states the spring to be 7 leaves 3" x 0.5", and the load to be carried.
2. The spring section and the load identify a kind of spring that has a component drawing (long since lost to us modellers).
3. Smiths make the springs accurately and repeatably according to the component drawing.
4. Wagon assemblers set the spring centres from the GA and the shoe positions to suit the springs they're given by the smiths.
5. Because the springs all match the component drawing and the shoes match the first springs, springs can be replaced and the new ones will always fit. Everybody is happy ...
6. ... except Rixon, who doesn't have the component drawing but still needs to know the length of the spring, dammit. And I can't measure a full-size wagon because none of the 7-ton ones survived, AFAIK.

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Paul Townsend
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Re: The Burford Branch

Postby Paul Townsend » Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:46 pm

DougN wrote:Oi I heard cats every day! I have a day job trying to follow some errr, architects and engineers drawings... I spend more time trying to figure out how they came up with certain details that don't work. So i spend a lot of time trying to correct designs that don't comply with planning, building codes, keep the water out.... the list goes on. Please don't get me wrong we need designers and architects to put in place good design, liveable spaces, inspiring and useful spaces. I have a thought that the skills of good architects has been run down somewhat by the chase of the dollar. There is, as you have suggested, the person putting the thing together some latitude to build what the designer intended but didn't get on paper!


I agree the implementer should be allowed some initiative but there is a need for consultation back to the designer and/or customer else the risk of the end product being so far off the original design that it won't work or the customer will scream " thats not what I agreed to ".

Been on both sides of this and got several tee shirts!


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