The Burford Branch

Tell us about your layout, where you put it, how you built it, how you operate it.
Terry Bendall
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Re: The Burford Branch

Postby Terry Bendall » Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:48 am

The book Creating a backscene, by Paul Bambrick and John Ellis-Cockell, reviewed in News 201 has a very useful section on perspective in relation to back scenes. Not a cheap book by any means but still very useful and good for a Christmas or birthday present.

Terry Bendall

martin goodall
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Re: The Burford Branch

Postby martin goodall » Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:06 pm

The appearance of the latest photos of the layout took me by surprise, as I had been convinced by an error message that they had failed to upload, and I was going to have another go when I get back to base.

Just to deal with the various points raised – First of all, the wagon turntable is ‘dummy’ in the sense that it is fixed in position, and cannot be turned. Before I built it, I spent some time trying to work out how wagons could be hauled on and off the turntable, but observation of various layouts convinced me that this could not be made to work satisfactorily. When chain shunting or hauling model wagons by means of a scale ‘rope’, they always seem to move in a series of jerks, which looks most unrealistic. I even thought about magnetic propulsion (!), and various other complicated methods of moving a wagon. Coupled with the problem of messing about with capstans, etc. this convinced me that the WTT should be fixed and immoveable.

The next point is that locomotives will very definitely be banned from running onto or across the WTT. It has always been my intention to erect beside the gate post of the brewery gateway a sign that clearly states :

GWR NOTICE
ENGINES MUST NOT
PASS THIS BOARD.
BY ORDER

As several readers have pointed out, a WTT simply couldn’t take the weight of a loco. It is an easy matter to avoid an engine encroaching on this turntable; you simply make sure that there is a rake of wagons between the loco and the wagon to be dropped or picked up, so that the engine doesn’t need to venture onto the brewery premises. Any wagons left on the siding at right-angles to the main siding are purely static; they have to be crane-shunted when no-one’s looking!

Incidentally, you will see that there is only a single line of rails on the WTT. I am aware that most wagon turntables had two pairs of rails at right-angles to each other. I’m just lazy, but I have seen one or two photos of such turntables with only one pair of rails.

Alan Turner
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Re: The Burford Branch

Postby Alan Turner » Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:55 pm

[quote="martin goodall"]

Just to deal with the various points raised – First of all, the wagon turntable is ‘dummy’ in the sense that it is fixed in position, and cannot be turned. Before I built it, I spent some time trying to work out how wagons could be hauled on and off the turntable, but observation of various layouts convinced me that this could not be made to work satisfactorily. When chain shunting or hauling model wagons by means of a scale ‘rope’, they always seem to move in a series of jerks, which looks most unrealistic. I even thought about magnetic propulsion (!), and various other complicated methods of moving a wagon. Coupled with the problem of messing about with capstans, etc. this convinced me that the WTT should be fixed and immoveable.

quote]

The "FlyShunter" from High Level Models.

regards

Alan

martin goodall
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Re: The Burford Branch

Postby martin goodall » Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:56 pm

I see that I have failed to mention so far what the paving is made of. My thanks to Andrew Ullyott for contacting me to ask me about this. It is embossed styrene sheet from South-eastern Finecast - FBS420 Paved Roadway Setts. It just has to be cut to fit the space available (which is quite an interesting jig-saw puzzle in itself!). It's quite thin (about 30-thou), so it needs some sort of base or foundation. I have learnt from experience not to try to lay it at rail-top height; it needs to be about 20-thou below the tops of the rails to prevent wheel treads being lifted off the rails .

Mark Tatlow has also been in touch to point out that wagon turntables normally had a sort of sprag (called a “dog” ?) on them. This is a spigot that comes out from the deck of the table and engages in a hole in the well. They stop the turntable moving unintentionally. I confess to having been aware of this (it is a feature that can clearly be seen in photos of the prototype), but deliberately ignored it. Call it laziness if you like, but the wagon turntable is not very clearly visible on the layout, being half-hidden behind the brewery wall, and so I decided to omit this detail. My usual excuse is that my models are “only an artist’s impression”, so I deliberately omit details if their absence will not be noticed when seen from a ‘normal’ distance and viewing angle. But pointing a camera at it in close-up gives the game away, and reveals my sins of omission!
Last edited by martin goodall on Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:45 am, edited 2 times in total.

martin goodall
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Re: The Burford Branch

Postby martin goodall » Wed Mar 08, 2017 3:03 pm

Alan Turner wrote:
The "FlyShunter" from High Level Models.



Mmm........You would need one for each wagon that's going to be shunted in this way (assuming more than one wagon left standing in the siding at any one time). And how do these wagons behave when marshalled in a train? The motor would presumably still turn the wheels of the wagon when the locomotive is hauling (or propelling) the train, before or after the wagon is detached/coupled up.

It would be interesting to share the experiences of someone who has actually shunted with one of these units.

I'm a great fan of Chris Gibbon's products, so I'm sure he worked all this out before releasing the FlyShunter.

martin goodall
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Re: The Burford Branch

Postby martin goodall » Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:28 am

I was going to delay posting more photos of the layout until the roofs of the buildings around the brewery yard are finished, but by choosing some careful camera angles to avoid showing their unfinished state it has been possible to take some further pictures to show the continuing progress on this part of the layout.

The first three shots show the scene now that the paving around the brewery siding has been painted, and the roof of the brewery stable has been completed (although not yet weathered).
(The wagon turntable is usually half-hidden behind the brewery boundary wall, which was removed after the first two of these shots was taken.)

IMG_2709.jpg


IMG_2729.jpg


IMG_2727.jpg


The building behind the wagon turntable is the brewery store, with its adjoining loading platform.
(Rain water pipes have not yet been added to this and other buildings around the brewery yard.)

IMG_2728.jpg


The stable has its back turned on the station, but the roof vent betrays this building’s function.

IMG_2733.jpg


By ‘doing a Hitchcock’ and removing the stable to get an unobstructed camera angle, I was able to take these two shots of the loading platform.
(The join in the platform face is usually hidden by the stable, and can’t be seen from a normal viewing angle, so I didn’t bother to disguise it – laziness again!)

IMG_2713.jpg


IMG_2742.jpg


At the back of the brewery yard, the staircase seen under construction earlier has now been painted and installed.
(This shot is what is euphemistically called ‘a cruel close-up’. The buildings are not intended to be seen this close or from this angle, so you can’t normally see the slight sheen on the wall of the bottling hall. And the fact that the glazing of the windows on the left is simply pencilled in is not usually so obvious. The fine vertical line pencilled on the left-hand wall indicates the location of a rain water pipe that has yet to be added. The steps down to the lower door are the result of my having got the levels wrong here – so I had to improvise.)

IMG_2715.jpg


Finally, lead flashing has at long last been added to the roof of the Station Building, and a nameboard has been added to the roof (replacing the less visible nameboard previously fixed to the end of the cycle shed). The GWR sometimes did this where the entrance to their station wasn’t obvious to approaching passengers.

IMG_2731.jpg


I’ll post some more photos when this part of the brewery is finally finished.

[I have now edited the note posted the other day so as to identify correctly the material used for the paving in the brewery siding. It is embossed styrene sheet from South-eastern Finecast - FBS420 Paved Roadway Setts.]

Phil O
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Re: The Burford Branch

Postby Phil O » Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:50 pm

Martin

That is simply some stunning modelling and it blends in very nicely, even without the subterfuge of hiding it behind other buildings.

Phil

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Paul Townsend
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Re: The Burford Branch

Postby Paul Townsend » Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:00 pm

martin goodall wrote:
Alan Turner wrote:
The "FlyShunter" from High Level Models.



Mmm........You would need one for each wagon that's going to be shunted in this way (assuming more than one wagon left standing in the siding at any one time). And how do these wagons behave when marshalled in a train? The motor would presumably still turn the wheels of the wagon when the locomotive is hauling (or propelling) the train, before or after the wagon is detached/coupled up.

It would be interesting to share the experiences of someone who has actually shunted with one of these units.

I'm a great fan of Chris Gibbon's products, so I'm sure he worked all this out before releasing the FlyShunter.

Tim Venton has done it at Clutton

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Le Corbusier
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Re: The Burford Branch

Postby Le Corbusier » Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:50 am

Martin,

I have been loving reading through these posts and studying the images .... wonderful!

Being relatively new to the society and railway modelling in general, I am not familiar with Buford Branch. Would it be possible to have an illustration of the track plan/layout plan and perhaps a few images of the overall layout to properly understand the context of the detailed photos?

Is it purely a home layout or might it ever be exhibited?

My own thoughts are beginning to turn to the planning of the Back scene and any relief modelling for my attempt at Monsal Dale - seeing this I am thinking very much on the lines of attempting a painted back scene.

Thanks for the thread.

Tim
Tim Lee

martin goodall
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Re: The Burford Branch

Postby martin goodall » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:13 am

My thanks to Phil O and to Le Corbusier for their kind remarks.

I don’t have a track plan of the layout that I could post here, but I could post copies of some of the photos from my original article in MRJ 71 (yes, it’s that long ago!) which show pretty well the whole of the layout with the track laid, but without any buildings. However, for purely for logistical reasons, I won’t be able to post those photos until towards the end of next week at the earliest.

As explained in my two-part article in MRJ 208 and 210, the townscape of which the recently photographed buildings form part is concentrated towards the right-hand end of the layout, around the station. In MRJ I explained that I had added a bridge for purely visual reasons, the experimental card mock-up for which was illustrated in one or two of the photos in MRJ 210, also reproduced earlier in this thread. This is not intended to divide the layout in two, and in practice I don’t think it will, but for the time being it represents the limit of the modelled townscape and landscape, and as yet there is only bare track beyond the bridge, where an engine shed and turntable will be located, plus a gas works. For the time being, I am concentrating on the area of the layout around the station itself, and will only move on towards the left-hand end of the layout when the station area and its surroundings are rather more complete. I have no illusions about the time likely to be required – this is a very long-term project.

In the meantime, there are one or two photographs that have previously been posted in this thread that show a slightly more complete picture of the part of the layout that lies to the right of the road overbridge.

The layout has been designed and built as a purely home-based layout. It is too big and heavy to be transported to exhibitions, and its lighting is plumbed in to the ceiling of the railway room. But the layout is capable of being dismantled and re-erected in the event of a house move, and in fact it is currently installed in its fourth home since construction began.

There is just one final point I would mention. No-one should underestimate the time required to build a layout like this. It is, as I have said, a long-term project, and I confess that there have been times when I have wished I had confined myself to building small and deeply rural light railway layouts like my earlier Crichel Down layout. Having got this far in constructing the Burford layout, I have no intention of abandoning it, but it is going to take a good few years before it is anything like complete.

Finally, thanks to Paul for reminding me that Tim Venton has a High Level “FlyShunter” for use on Clutton. Perhaps Tim could be persuaded to tell us on this workshop thread how this has worked out in practice, and how the wagon behaves when marshalled in a loco-hauled train.

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Tim V
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Re: The Burford Branch

Postby Tim V » Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:03 pm

That wagon was seen at Railex, doing its stuff. I think I covered it in my workbench thread a while ago.

Just think "what can I do with DCC" and you'll see the answer to the wagon in the train problem.
Tim V

martin goodall
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Re: The Burford Branch

Postby martin goodall » Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:48 pm

In answer to a query from Le Corbusier the other day, I promised (in lieu of a track plan) to post some early photos illustrating the general arrangement of the layout before the addition of any buildings or scenery. These photos illustrated my first article on the layout in MRJ 71. Between them they show the entire layout.

As I explained in that first article, I took the track layout at Ashburton as my starting point, but added a second goods siding going round behind the goods shed, and lengthened the run round loop to provide a carriage siding-cum-headshunt.

The first two views were taken looking in the Up direction, i.e. in the direction of the Fiddle Yard (which is further round the bend to the left, behind the backscene).

BFD TK (18).JPG


BFD TK (16).JPG


A clearer view of the track plan is given in this aerial view looking in the same direction.

BFD TK (1).JPG


This slightly closer shot is also looking out of the station. We are in effect looking over the Train Shed roof, with the location of the Station Building marked on the baseboard surface to its right. The position of the Cattle Dock was also marked on the baseboard on the left-hand side of the line.

BFD TK (13).JPG


This is an aerial view in the opposite direction, looking towards the buffer stops. The Brewery is in the area to the left of the back road in the goods yard, which has been extended across the Station Yard and into the Brewery.

BFD TK (21).JPG


These photos can be compared with various shots posted earlier in this thread, which show the gradual development of the scene in the intervening years.

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Le Corbusier
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Re: The Burford Branch

Postby Le Corbusier » Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:05 pm

Thanks Martin ... that is helpful.

Regards

Tim
Tim Lee

martin goodall
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Re: The Burford Branch

Postby martin goodall » Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:45 pm

It has just occurred to me that one of the drawings that appeared in MRJ 210 exactly illustrates the layout of the buildings that have been the subject of recent postings in this thread. So I am now (slightly belatedly) posting a copy of that drawing here, so that the layout of the various brewery buildings is a bit clearer.

Drawing (Burford - Fig 1).jpg

martin goodall
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Re: The Burford Branch

Postby martin goodall » Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:22 pm

News from Burford

I was hoping by now to report on the completion of the brewery buildings, but the work just goes on and on. I have been working on this group of buildings now for over 18 months. (Some people would have completed an entire layout in that time, and be well on with the next one by now!)

The buildings previously seen here have now been finished, and I’ll post some more photos when I have completed the entire complex. In the meantime, here is a selection of photos showing work in progress on the maltings building – representing a traditional floor maltings.

Aug 17 (1).jpg


Aug 17 (2).jpg

[The chain seen hanging down inside the door way in the photo above has since been trimmed back.]

Sacks of barley are hoisted up to the loft, and the barley is then taken down to the floor below, spread over the floor, sparged with water and gently warmed to make it germinate. The grain is then taken to the lower floor for further treatment, before being taken into the malt kiln (which in this case will stand behind the main building) to be heated in order to stop the germination and ‘fix’ the natural sugars (‘maltose’) created by the malting process. The heat in the malt kiln is regulated according to the colour of malt required, and hence the colour of the beer that will be brewed from it, ranging from Light Ale, through various strengths of Bitter and Brown Ale, to the dark beers such as Dark Mild, Porter, Stout and Entire, in which the case the malt is ‘roasted’ until it is dark brown.

I don’t generally model interior details, but in this case I decided to have the loft doors open, and to model the details that could be seen inside. These comprise the sack hoist and, inside the doors, sacks of barley stacked against the wall, together with a sack truck and a broom. The floor boards are ply sleeper strip, 3mm wide – perfect for 9-inch floorboards, and requiring only subtle tinting to remove the ‘new wood’ look of the ply.
Aug 17 (3).jpg


It occurred to me that I should also model a section of the inside of the roof on the far side of the loft (although I’m not sure how visible this will be in the gloom after the roof goes on). I have assumed that the roof was boarded to provide some insulation, and I have then added a purlin and rafters.
Aug 17 (4).jpg


Aug 17 (5).jpg

[The paintwork on the door frame has been touched up since these photos were taken.]

I can now add the roof, and then go on to finish the model of the malt kiln behind the main maltings building.
Last edited by martin goodall on Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Mark Tatlow
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Re: The Burford Branch

Postby Mark Tatlow » Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:47 pm

Very impressive Martin
Mark Tatlow

MikeH
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Re: The Burford Branch

Postby MikeH » Thu Aug 03, 2017 2:24 pm

Absolutely wonderful layout and full of the finer details. Out of interest, How long is the scenic section?

Andrew Ullyott
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Re: The Burford Branch

Postby Andrew Ullyott » Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:44 pm

Very nice Martin. I'm going to copy that somewhere.
I'd be tempted to have some form of illumination in there because it would be a shame to lose that detail.

martin goodall
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Re: The Burford Branch

Postby martin goodall » Thu Aug 03, 2017 5:11 pm

Thanks for the kind remarks.

In answer to Mike H, the scenic part of the layout is 11 feet from end to end, but it is angled out into the room, and also goes round a curve (see photos above, posted on 24 March this year), so it is probably a bit longer than 11 feet when measured along the track.

As I think I mentioned some time ago, there is an over-line bridge about half-way along the scene, and scenic development has been confined up to now to the area to the right of this bridge. The detailed architectural development so far is within a length of approximately 5 or 6 feet.

Taking up Andrew's suggestion, there are one or two places where I am tempted to install internal lighting, and yet I can't help feeling that this might look somewhat contrived. I had even considered how to connect up the wiring to buildings that are removable: I decided to use magnets for the contacts. In anticipation of this, I bought grain of wheat bulbs, LEDs and fibre optic cable to cover various options. (The lighting in the recent photos was simply provided by a desk lamp.)

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jim s-w
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Re: The Burford Branch

Postby jim s-w » Thu Aug 03, 2017 5:48 pm

Great stuff Martin.

Being critical I don't like the winch. It all looks far to chunky to me.

Jim

martin goodall
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Re: The Burford Branch

Postby martin goodall » Fri Aug 04, 2017 5:06 pm

jim s-w wrote:Great stuff Martin.

Being critical I don't like the winch. It all looks far to chunky to me.

Jim


Fair comment, Jim.

The photos do make it look a bit 'chunky', and I thought this myself when I first saw the images on the camera, but they represent a significant enlargement, compared with the size of the actual model. I think it looks OK on the layout. [My standard excuse is - "It's only an artist's impression".]

The pulley wheel was in fact cobbled together with the only bits and pieces I could find in my 'spares' box, and I didn't really want to bother with firing up the lathe to turn something up specially.

JFS
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Re: The Burford Branch

Postby JFS » Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:13 pm

All is looking very lovely Martin - well done.

Regarding Jim's point, I wonder if the chunkiness results from the use of a chain? Chains are always going to be difficult in 4mm. It would be a long and very heavy length of chain to reach to the floor and therefore, If it is just a hand powered sack hoist lifting at most a hundred weight or so, would a rope (and a fairly slight one at that) not be more likely?

Keep up the good work!

Best wishes,

martin goodall
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Re: The Burford Branch

Postby martin goodall » Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:05 pm

Thanks, Howard.

I have certainly seen fine chain used for sack hoists in mills, etc. and I chose a very fine chain for this model (far finer than anything I have found before). However, rope [cotton on a model] would probably serve as well.

dal-t
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Re: The Burford Branch

Postby dal-t » Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:19 am

Cotton has its own problems, particularly an insistence on maintaining unrealistic kinks that seem to defy 'scale' gravity. For working cranes I try to get as much weight as possible into the hook to stretch the rope (easier if it is attached to a moving pulley block, preferably two-reeve) but for the last static crane I built I pre-stretched the cotton and sealed it with superglue. It looks OK, still far from perfect, but it hasn't been in place long enough to see if it still suffers from the other problem of cotton, attraction of stubbornly persistent dust and fluff. Personally I prefer using chain, but even the finest is probably oversize for a lightweight hoist.
David L-T

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David B
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Re: The Burford Branch

Postby David B » Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:09 am

'Chain' can be made by twisting two strands of the fine copper in multistrand flex. This should straighten and would look good. The more you twist, the smaller the 'links'. I have done this on the roof of my Y6 tram loco and had a number of comments, several asking where I get the fine chain from!

Y6-roof_2565.jpg
Y6-roof_2565.jpg (52.23 KiB) Viewed 3136 times


Y6_6257.jpg
Finished model painted by Tim Shackleton
Y6_6257.jpg (33 KiB) Viewed 3136 times


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