Layout idea

[dgp1957]

Folks I came across this layout plan in the 0 gauge society document "Small layouts" "Beadnale & Bamburgh", I was thinking that I could try and build a similar layout maybe about 5 or 6 feet x 1 foot 6 inches in P4, is this quite feasable? Also any ideas on improvements would be very grateful (especially regarding point sizes etc)

1jpg.jpg

I apologise for the simplistic picture (I only have Paint on my PC) big change from AutoCad when I was working

Thanks
David

[Alan Turner]

You need catch points on the siding exits. Save space by using a tandem turnout at the righthand end.

Auto-CAD equivalent but FREE is: http://doublecad.com/Products/DoubleCAD ... fault.aspx

Alan

PS just tried to run it up on Templot. Bottom line, it ain't going to fit. Suggest you have a look at: http://www.scalefour.org/shows/S4SW2010/llanastr.html

[dgp1957]

Thanks Alan, Llanastr looks very neat, just what I'm looking for, do you have dimensions for the layout? and what turnouts would you recommend for the layout?
If I was to use CR buildings and structures etc for this layout, it wouldn't look out of place would it?

Thanks
David

[Alan Turner]

Llanastr is 6'-0" x 15". I believe it uses B6 turnouts.

You might consider Iain Rice's take on it as shown in "An approach to model railway layout design" - Wild Swan. That layout is 6'-6" x 21"

Alan

[dgp1957]

Thanks Alan, had a look on amazon for the book, came up priced 178 pounds, just a wee bit too much for me at the moment

David

[grovenor-2685]

big change from AutoCad when I was working

Try the free version of 'DoubleCAD XT', the price is right, just ignore the pleadings to upgrade to the paid version.
http://www.doublecad.com/
unless, of course, it would be to much like work
Regards
Keith

[dgp1957]

The reason I'm going for this size of layout is that I have an old N gauge layout, made up in a nice cabinet with lights etc, size 6' x 15"x 4'high, so I was going to strip out the n gauge stuff and build a new one with P4.

David

[Paul Willis]

The reason I'm going for this size of layout is that I have an old N gauge layout, made up in a nice cabinet with lights etc, size 6' x 15"x 4'high, so I was going to strip out the n gauge stuff and build a new one with P4.

That sounds like an excellent way to get something moving without delay.

Have you seen the pictures of Horsley Bank in the Scaleforum Retrospective? It shows how much atmosphere can be put into a space only 4' x 2'.

http://www.scalefour.org/shows/S4um2010/horsley.html

Flymo

[dgp1957]

Absolutely stunning, as you say very atmospheric, lovely layout.

David

[Alan Turner]

David,

My take on Elan to save you £178!

Templot Pages.png

[dgp1957]

Lol thanks Alan is that a traverser on the top left hand of the plan? So is that a slip (or maybe a diamond crossing) and two left hand turnouts I'll be needing

Oops, forgot to ask, so what is the best way of starting off, building the turnouts and putting them in place then add the plain track to suit?

David

[DavidM]

Thanks Alan, had a look on amazon for the book, came up priced 178 pounds, just a wee bit too much for me at the moment

David

There's one on eBay right now - current bid less than five quid!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LAYOUT-DESIGN-Iain-Rice-/170563354486?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item27b65e3f76

David

[Alan Turner]

Lol thanks Alan is that a traverser on the top left hand of the plan? So is that a slip (or maybe a diamond crossing) and two left hand turnouts I'll be needing

Oops, forgot to ask, so what is the best way of starting off, building the turnouts and putting them in place then add the plain track to suit?

David

Yes and a single slip.

Best way to start off is to set it out on the board. It looks deceptively simple but there is some quite tricky geometry to work out.

Congratulations on noticing the station turnout is a contraflexture left hand rather than a right hand turnout that may be supposed at first glance.

[dgp1957]

Alan, Im going to order my first points kit, I like the look of the C&L finescale timber tracks kit, they only do a B6 type in their kits, would this be suitable?

David

[David Thorpe]

Alan, Im going to order my first points kit, I like the look of the C&L finescale timber tracks kit, they only do a B6 type in their kits, would this be suitable?

I'd just point out that if you're going to model a rural Caley branch line, the points would almost certainly have interlaced sleepers.

DT

[dgp1957]

Hi David sorry to show my ignorance but what are interlaced sleepers, and what is the best way to model them?

[David Thorpe]

Points built with interlaced sleepers use ordinary sleepers, at least up to the "Vee". There are no long timbers up to there, though I believe that long timbers were (sometimes? always?) used after that point. Some examples here: http://85a.co.uk/forum/view_topic.php?i ... mp_to=4033

DT

[Paul Willis]

Points built with interlaced sleepers use ordinary sleepers, at least up to the "Vee". There are no long timbers up to there, though I believe that long timbers were (sometimes? always?) used after that point. Some examples here: http://85a.co.uk/forum/view_topic.php?i ... mp_to=4033

DT

And as you are already thinking of using TimberTracks, you'll find that there is one interlaced track base already in their range.

Halfway down http://www.finescale.org.uk/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=54#trackbases is "NER 1:8 Turnout - Interlaced Sleepers". I couldn't comment how close NER practice is to CR, but I suspect that it is a very good starting point.

HTH
Flymo

[David Thorpe]

Which appears to answer my uncertainty; full interlacing can continue after the "V" crossing.

Much depends on the period you are modelling and the type of railway. Gradually after the grouping, many interlaced points were replaced by conventional long-timbered ones, particularly on main lines, but interlaced points remained in situ on branch lines and many goods yards right up until closure. I'm sure some still exist.

DT

[allanferguson]

Regarding Interlaced sleepering, there has been a good deal of discussion about this amongst Caledonian modellers, and my view, which I think might be supported by most of those modellers, is that The Caledonian Railway used interlaced sleepering for both main lines and sidings up until grouping; that no long timbers were used; that after 1923 the LMS and BR would have gradually replaced these with the more modern timbered layouts, but sometimes the timbering was carried out under the crossing only; and that by BR times virtually only sidings would still be sleepered. All of this, incidentally, applies to plain turnouts; it isn't at all clear what happened under slips, diamond crossings, etc, though I can't see how they could have been done without using 12" timbers.

In my view, the Timbertracks kit, though based on an NER design, is an excellent representation of a CR turnout, and it's certainly a lot easier than handlaying the individual sleepers.

Allan F

[Alan Turner]

by all means use the Timber Tracks but they are for "B" type switches. As you are only building 2 or 3 turnouts and if you are going to the trouble to use interlaced timbering then why not go the full mile and use the proper switchs?

The Timber Tracks then of course won't work but for a couple of turnouts I would have thoght it worth getting right?

Alan

[dcockling]

Hi David sorry to show my ignorance but what are interlaced sleepers, and what is the best way to model them?

Hi David,

You'll also find an article by A C B Brenchley on interlaced timbering in our archives. It's from the Protofour Society's Precision No3, April 1972. It mentions the Caledonian too.

All the Best
Danny

[David Thorpe]

Although I'm not the David you're referring to, can I just say thanks for looking out this useful and informative article - very helpful.

DT

[dcockling]

Although I'm not the David you're referring to, can I just say thanks for looking out this useful and informative article - very helpful.

DT

You're welcome the other David

Sadly, although I can't remember mundane things like my mobile number, I do remember anything that I've ever logged in my mind as 'might be useful' (obviously my phone number isn't, as I don't ring myself) and I can actually remember getting the first few copies of Precision (aged 15).

Incidentally Tony Brenchley is still a member of the Scalefour Society.

All the Best
Danny

[Mark Tatlow]

If you are going to go down the route of interlaced turnouts (and this would be right for most of your era trackwork) then do not get too precious about things like sleeper spacings as the protoype didn't at this time.

I have found that interlaced turnouts can be a little floppy because a large degree of the diverging lines are not connected to each other - this can mean the turnout does not go down as it is intended. I therefore pop in a couple of extra rivets where the running line of one branch goes over the timbers of the other. These extra rivets are pretty subtle and do not get seen. You can not do this as readily with C&L/P4 Track Co solutions as they do not use rivets.