Glenmutchkin - Turntable Troubles Reprise

Tell us about your layout, where you put it, how you built it, how you operate it.
User avatar
Mark Tatlow
Posts: 705
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:24 pm

Re: Glenmutchkin - A Bit of a Slip Up

Postby Mark Tatlow » Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:03 pm

Thanks Keith; I will look into the interlocking of the two turnouts electronically as I would appreciate the improvement of the idiot proofing of the layout as there are a number of idiots that are likely to use it!!

With regard to the differing cab sections, I am splitting the layout into power districts and one boundary happens to run at this point.

Having been at someone's fairly extensive DCC layout on Friday where the entire layout went into meltdown as a result of a very small knock to a connector; power districts are good!!
Mark Tatlow

DougN
Posts: 886
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:57 am

Re: Glenmutchkin - A Bit of a Slip Up

Postby DougN » Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:21 am

Mark, I hope you don't have to name the idiots one day :D

This is great as I have a thought to have 2 slips near each other and a 3 way point so all this discussion is rather interesting. I am also thinking of the Frog juicers which could solve a heap of issues.... though it is a very expensive option compared to using switches!
Doug
Still not doing enough modelling

User avatar
Jol Wilkinson
Posts: 780
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:39 pm

Re: Glenmutchkin - A Bit of a Slip Up

Postby Jol Wilkinson » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:03 am

Mark,

as Keith suggests a three way switch may provide a simple (?) answer.

I used a three way, four pole rotary switch for a similar "layout" on London Road to control the three routes through the point and slip (I had another point in the mix to create a double track junction). Two of the point motors are linked electrically, so you end up with a system that will only select the route needed.

I've modified my original wiring/control diagram I used to work it out, removing the extra point. It's a mirror to yours but may help. The point motors are Cobalts and I used the internal switches to feed the vees.

SS wiring.pdf
(1.32 MiB) Downloaded 100 times


Jol

FCA
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:49 pm

Re: Glenmutchkin - A Bit of a Slip Up

Postby FCA » Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:19 pm

Jol's diagram does I think help to clarify the problem and its solution.

If you simply wire the slip's motors to act in tandem, that is giving only two possible blade positions rather than four, the possibility of creating conflicting polarities between the slip's crossings is obviated. The three possible routes through the slip remain uncompromised.

The wiring can then be done on a conventional basis.

Richard

User avatar
grovenor-2685
Posts: 3167
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 8:02 pm

Re: Glenmutchkin - A Bit of a Slip Up

Postby grovenor-2685 » Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:55 pm

Jol's diagram contains additional switching only needed for analogue and not for DCC. It also omits the switching for the crossings of the slip.
The diagram in this most, https://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2420&start=125#p56572, in my view represents the conventional arrangement.
As mentionedby Mark and implied in Jol's diagram, the turnout works with the far end onf the slip on one lever as a crossover with the other end of the slip on a seperate lever. The interlocking needing the latter to be reverse before reversing the crossover. This interlocking prevents setting conflicting routes over the diamond.
If the two slip points are on a common lever you cannot get all of the 3 required route settings, it does not work.
Regards

User avatar
Jol Wilkinson
Posts: 780
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:39 pm

Re: Glenmutchkin - A Bit of a Slip Up

Postby Jol Wilkinson » Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:48 pm

My drawing was intended to show how you can operate the three motors for a point and single slip using a three way, four pole switch which gives the three possible route options and avoids conflicts. I didn't include the wiring to the Vees, as Keith has shown.

The system works satisfactorily on London Road which also has another turnout as shown here in the foreground of this photograph( taken during construction), operated by a separate toggle switch.

Under construction cropped.jpg

User avatar
Mark Tatlow
Posts: 705
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:24 pm

Re: Glenmutchkin - Calming an Exhibition Manager's Nerves!

Postby Mark Tatlow » Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:57 pm

With nine weeks to go (a couple of which will be lost with a summer holiday) to Glenmutchkin's first outing at Scaleforum, the state of its progress is at the forefront my mind!  It is probably rather more at the forefront of Terry's mind! 

So help to calm nerves, here is a progress report and update photographs to prove that even if I have not been providing many posts, progress is being made on a number of fronts:

IMG_2861 (2).JPG

Most of the track is laid and wired; much of it is also ballasted, although it still needs colouring.

IMG_2869 (2).JPG


IMG_2880 (3).JPG

Most of the signals are finished but not yet linked up (which explains some of the droopy angles of the arms!).  There will be more posts on this topic soon.

IMG_2855 (2).JPG

The principal bridge has been finished for a while, but it is looking a bit more "at home".

IMG_2881 (3).JPG

.....especially with a fine loco to set it off (thanks to John James for this!).

IMG_2891 (2).JPG
Attachments
IMG_2867 (2).JPG
Mark Tatlow

Terry Bendall
Posts: 1634
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:46 am

Re: Glenmutchkin - Calming an Exhibition Manager's Nerves!

Postby Terry Bendall » Fri Jul 26, 2019 11:24 am

Mark Tatlow wrote:So help to calm nerves, here is a progress report


No nerves need calming here Mark - I gave up that sort of thing a long time ago. :D

Progress is clearly being made and I think the majority of visitors like to see a layout in progress and ask about how things were done. There will be nine other layouts to look at almost all of which are complete, finished even and enough to keep everyone interested.

Terry Bendall

essdee
Posts: 380
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 4:47 pm

Re: Glenmutchkin - Calming an Exhibition Manager's Nerves!

Postby essdee » Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:13 pm

Mutch to savour there, Mark - worry you, not!

Hat-coat-gone...

Steve

User avatar
Flymo748
Posts: 2177
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:00 pm

Re: Glenmutchkin - Calming an Exhibition Manager's Nerves!

Postby Flymo748 » Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:26 pm

essdee wrote:Mutch to savour there, Mark - worry you, not!

Hat-coat-gone...

Steve


But in the pictures I see no Munchkins?

Coat? In this weather?

Cheers
Flymo
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk

RichardS
Posts: 98
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2016 7:51 am

Re: Glenmutchkin - Calming an Exhibition Manager's Nerves!

Postby RichardS » Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:55 pm

Flymo748 wrote:
essdee wrote:Mutch to savour there, Mark - worry you, not!

Hat-coat-gone...

Steve


But in the pictures I see no Munchkins?

Coat? In this weather?

Cheers
Flymo


I keep reading it as GlenMunchkin too. (Although Glen is not the name I would expect a munchkin to be given.)
After all it is 4mm scale.
Kind regards
Richard

I'm not always a railway modelling heretic

User avatar
Mark Tatlow
Posts: 705
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:24 pm

Re: Glenmutchkin - Calming an Exhibition Manager's Nerves!

Postby Mark Tatlow » Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:15 pm

With the need to load the layout in the back of a van to get it to Scaleforum looming, I have been pressing ahead with the creation of travelling boxes for the boards.

Despite being pretty simple, they do take a long time to make but those for the main visible boards are at least all now complete – and here they are on parade!

IMG_3148.JPG
Baseboards on Parade


A bit more on the detail on their features and how I built them can be found here. https://highlandmiscellany.com/2019/05/ ... ng-clever/

IMG_0932 (2).JPG
Baseboard casing
Mark Tatlow

User avatar
Mark Tatlow
Posts: 705
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:24 pm

Re: Glenmutchkin - Putting a Backbone into a Goods Shed

Postby Mark Tatlow » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:16 pm

The advantage of a railway company using standard building designs is that you can get to use them more than once. Thus Portchullin's goods shed will be getting to have a new lease of life on Glenmutchkin.

I think my goods shed is the oldest model that I still have and over the years it is fair to say has suffered. Some of this is simply the thirty six shows that it has done with Portchullin (hell...…...thirty six shows.......!) and almost as many years, as I was about 17 when I made it. However the main issue was the manner in which I built it, with minimal bracing over the top of the entrances. This has lead to it breaking its back and despite several attempts at repair, these have never been long lasting. So it is time to do it properly to allow its reincarnation on Glenmutchkin.

IMG_1282 (1).JPG


The key to the repair was to introduce a metal skeleton frame inside the model to strengthen it - particularly across the rail doors. This is something I now tend to do at the outset with any largish building I build to contain warping. The frame is invisible from the exterior - the view above shows the frame that I made with the first side attached.
IMG_1283 (3).JPG


The frame was made with some 3mm square and oblong section brass, with gusset plates - there was a fair amount of metal so it got close to blacksmithing at one stage.

Once the frame was inserted, the model was given an overhaul to repair the other dinks and marks that it has acquired over the years. There were a fair few, as can be seen.
IMG_1809 (2).JPG


I also to the opportunity to install gutters and downpipes; something I had been meaning to do since I was 17...……a bit of a shameful shortfall, given I am a chartered building surveyor!
IMG_3465 (2).JPG


IMG_3467 (2).JPG


I am pleased with the results and the model is now much more robust so it should do at least another 36 shows! Whether its owner can will be kept under review!

My goods shed is based on the Orbach drawings of the shed at Garve (the August 1952 edition of the Model Railway News). The prototype was swept away in the 1970s and whilst there are a pair of the smaller sheds still remaining (notably at Brora), there are no longer any of the standard Highland Goods sheds left. The last to go was in Golspie about two years ago and I did manage to both photograph and measure it before it went. Here are some views of it before it was demolished:

_DSC0307.JPG


_DSC0304.JPG
Mark Tatlow

User avatar
Mark Tatlow
Posts: 705
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:24 pm

Re: Glenmutchkin - Putting a Backbone into a Goods Shed

Postby Mark Tatlow » Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:20 pm

Back in November 2015 in this thread, I posted about the troubles that I had with the Chatham Turntable drive; Andrew Bluett Duncan was encountering similar issues - mentioned here viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5427&hilit=turntable&start=25

I am most of the way through solving my problems, but not without a fair amount of heartbreak! Details will follow (including of problems that I had not realised were apparent back in 2015!). However, I now have a pair of related questions.

These are what was the likely time it took to revolve a hand driven turntable (in reality) through 180 degrees and what is a sensible time for one to rotate the same degree on a model railway?

Watching a few videos suggests that the answer to question one is somewhere between 1'50" and 3'0" and it is quite clear that the start was rather faster than the finish! This seems rather too long to me when you see the turntable in the model form.

What do people think?

I would also be interested in hearing how Andrew got on with his turntable drive?
Mark Tatlow

Armchair Modeller
Posts: 1131
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:34 pm

Re: Glenmutchkin - Turntable Troubles Reprise

Postby Armchair Modeller » Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:11 am

Work out the circumference of your turntable and base the speed of rotation on the walking pace of the man pushing the turntable?

User avatar
Guy Rixon
Posts: 602
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 6:40 pm

Re: Glenmutchkin - Turntable Troubles Reprise

Postby Guy Rixon » Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:12 pm

Armchair Modeller wrote:Work out the circumference of your turntable and base the speed of rotation on the walking pace of the man pushing the turntable?

Yes. I suspect that tangental speed was even slower than that, but walking pace is an upper limit for a model; anything faster looks wrong. I've seen films of full-size, powered turntables that do go faster and they look implausible, like somebody speeded up the video.

How does one stop a human-powered turntable? Is it stopped in position by an almighty latch, like a wagon turntable? Or do the crew have to get in front of the pushing bars to brake it?



Return to “Layouts and Operations”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests