Brimsdown-The last grand project.

Tell us about your layout, where you put it, how you built it, how you operate it.
User avatar
Colin Parks
Posts: 570
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 4:44 pm

Re: Brimsdown-The last grand project.

Postby Colin Parks » Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:10 pm

Hi Tony,

This has become a most inspirational thread for me. Your track work, especially with the complex formations, is quite magnificent (I do not envy you the task of adding all the half-chairs though). From reading through the 'Garden Shed' topic on this forum, your shed is equally impressive!

Eagerly awaiting your explanation of the process of building flat-bottom (FB) rail turnouts. I am holding off building my FB crossover until seeing how you would go about it.

All the best,

Colin

Tony Wilkins
Posts: 248
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:57 pm

Re: Brimsdown-The last grand project.

Postby Tony Wilkins » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:20 pm

Hi Colin.
Thanks for the kind words of support. I don't do things by half’s do I? Never have. But then if a jobs worth doing...
The trouble is that once you have a reputation it can be difficult to live up to sometimes.
At the moment, I have just finished riveting the timbers for a bullhead C-6 1/2 crossover with a single slip in the middle of it. The idea is to use this as detailed look at turnout construction, which will be the subject of a separate thread. I need the daylight to take a picture of it before I start though.
I have printed out the templates for all the Flatbottom turnouts and have been giving some thought to how I shall approach them.
Regarding the chairing of the track, I hope you realise that most of the pointwork is for the storage sidings so won't be chaired. There is or will be quite enough scenic track to chair though to keep me busy for a while.
Regards
Tony.

DougN
Posts: 839
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:57 am

Re: Brimsdown-The last grand project.

Postby DougN » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:01 pm

Tony I am amazed at your capacity to have this all moving at a nice pace. I can barely get at the 3way Tandem and single slip that had a few hours on it last week end but dates back to November last year! I must spend some more time on it but at barely 30minutes each night and even then tired after work and the 4km walk I take the dog on... the brain is willing but the body is generally saying bed is a better option. I will keep reading your exploits and Colins for my trackwork, for the future P4 layout I have been planning and I am slowly building the trackwork for!
Doug
Still not doing enough modelling

Tony Wilkins
Posts: 248
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:57 pm

Re: Brimsdown-The last grand project.

Postby Tony Wilkins » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:34 pm

18 months ago all that existed of Brimsdown was the crossover above, a Templot plan and some second hand baseboards acquired from the late departed Chris Archbold's layout Welwyn. Here are a couple of pictures I took when I used them to put out all my mineral wagons so I could sort through them to find the ones that needed correction. Wrong body / brake-gear combination, wrong numbers etc. I needed to do this because Green Street was due to be exhibited at Scaleforum and I had been offered help to paint some of my mineral wagons for me to number before the event. Hence the dire need to sort them all out.
A siding was allocated for each variable and paper numbers were printed out for each wagon. These can be seen in some of them. I then worked though them in a logical manner beginning with those that were correct, which were sent to the paint shop first. Slowly working my way though to those that required the most work. The last few had to have the body completely replaced.
Old boards 1.JPG

Old boards 2.JPG

I had briefly considered trying to reuse the baseboards as is, but the more I looked them the less viable this became. The track design was totally incompatible with what I wanted to do and the standard of the trackwork left a lot to be desired. The curved end boards were designed for a different radius to the track as laid and worst of all the two tracks were laid at standard centres. When I tested some rolling stock on them the centre of a mk1 coach collided with the nose of a class 40 on the inner road. Oh dear!
Once Scaleforum was out of the way. Green Street was stacked in a corner and has remained there since as thoughts turned increasingly to the new project. The curved end boards were consigned to the scrap pile and the decision was taken to lift all the track. This proved to be surprisingly easy as none of it was glued down. Everything was either screwed or pinned to the baseboard. I think Chris must have had shares in Peco, the number of Peco track pins he used. His aim had been to achieve floating track, but judging from the multiple layers of card, foam and paper packing discovered underneath the track, I don't think it could have been very successful. Having got back to the bare board surface of the first baseboard I discovered that the top surface was 9mm plywood as were the side frames. I removed the edge strips that Chris had fitted, these are the unpainted ply edges visible in the pictures. These were glued and screwed to the frames, but as the wood frame had been painted first, the glue bond was not that strong fortunately. This revealed yet more screws holding the top layer to the subframe. Since I wanted to replace the ply top with Sundelea board, I needed to remove the ply top. I removed all the screws I could find and tentatively pushed the ply wood layer, not expecting it to move as I expected it to be glued down, but it slid away from the subframe. Result! But this was when I discovered the next problem.
The geometry of the subframe was all its members were at right angles, there was no cross bracing and hence no resistance to twist. I was also to discover that several of the baseboards were not square either, so what I had hoped would make life easier as so often was to prove otherwise.
How I got round these problems is for another post.
Tony.

Tony Wilkins
Posts: 248
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:57 pm

Re: Brimsdown-The last grand project.

Postby Tony Wilkins » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:53 pm

DougN wrote:Tony I am amazed at your capacity to have this all moving at a nice pace. I can barely get at the 3way Tandem and single slip that had a few hours on it last week end but dates back to November last year! I must spend some more time on it but at barely 30minutes each night and even then tired after work and the 4km walk I take the dog on... the brain is willing but the body is generally saying bed is a better option. I will keep reading your exploits and Colins for my trackwork, for the future P4 layout I have been planning and I am slowly building the trackwork for!


Hi Doug.
As I put in another post, what you need for a big project is Dedication, Determination and Retirement. I didn't actually retire. I always say that work gave me up after I was made redundant for the third time at 56. That was when we took the decision to move out of London and came to Nottinghamshire and acquired the Garage with a house. We also have a dog that I usually take for a good walk most days. I probably wouldn't get enough exercise otherwise.
Brimsdown has been 40 years plus in the planning, so I thought if I didn't make a start it would never happen. If I looked at the magnitude of what I am attempting, I probably never would have, but by breaking the project down into smaller manageable steps and ticking each one off in turn, one is encouraged to keep going and now it is my bed time.
Regards
Tony.

DougN
Posts: 839
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:57 am

Re: Brimsdown-The last grand project.

Postby DougN » Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:39 am

Oh I agree with what you are saying Tony, many moons ago ok 2011 I had planned on meeting you and the NLG but it was about the time that Ted had his accident. But due to that and a number of other things it didn't happen. Your comments about dedication etc and eating the elephant one bite at a time. I see modelling as long as I do a small amount each week the small pile of things end up finished and that is what I am trying to do each month this year.
Doug
Still not doing enough modelling

Tony Wilkins
Posts: 248
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:57 pm

Re: Brimsdown-The last grand project.

Postby Tony Wilkins » Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:01 pm

DougN wrote:Oh I agree with what you are saying Tony, many moons ago ok 2011 I had planned on meeting you and the NLG but it was about the time that Ted had his accident. But due to that and a number of other things it didn't happen. Your comments about dedication etc and eating the elephant one bite at a time. I see modelling as long as I do a small amount each week the small pile of things end up finished and that is what I am trying to do each month this year.

Hi Doug.
If Ted were involved it would have been CLAG rather than the NLG. The confusion is understandable as I was member of both at the time.
I do remember Prem telling us about the planned visit and its subsequent cancellation.
Regards
Tony.

Tony Wilkins
Posts: 248
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:57 pm

Re: Brimsdown-The last grand project.

Postby Tony Wilkins » Sat Apr 28, 2018 6:24 pm

I thought I would come back to this topic and was somewhat taken aback to discover that it was nearly 3 months ago that I last posted. The diversion to turnout construction has obviously taken up time I would have devoted to this and that is far from finished, but was I thought sorely needed.

Baseboards.
As already noted, those I had left much to be desired. Having already spent much time stripping them I was loath to abandon them and start afresh, so they were carefully examined and the best ones were put to one side and those that did not pass muster were dismantled into their component parts, which I have to say was alarmingly easy, remove the screws and a few deft taps with a mallet. The best of those parts were cleaned up and reassembled leaving a pile of seconds for further sorting and possible reuse.
As I have a need for a lot of storage, the plan had always been to use 'cheap' / second hand kitchen units as cupboards underneath the layout boards. Some of these are visible in the picture below. Over the years I had acquired enough for one side of the garage where the storage sidings would go, but still needed more for the other side. The advantage of these units is that they are adaptable and with care can be installed with the top surface level. Their disadvantage is the wasted space underneath where the legs should be and with the hollow cavity for the services at the rear. You may not be surprised to learn that very few are assembled as per the full instructions. Many have had the hardboard back left out altogether, the wall acting as the back, some have a solid chipboard back, but all have been strengthened with extra pieces of 15mm chipboard across the top rear forming a right angle section to support the weight of the worktop surface and stop it sagging between the side panels. If you think that kitchen units are standard sizes think again. Obviously the Euro standards police haven’t got to them yet. Although they are standard lengths i.e. 30, 50 or 100 cm, that is as far as it goes. The thing that varies most is the height. I have not used the plastic legs / feet supplied. Mine have all sorts of scrap wood sheets and strips underneath to align the top surfaces and give the cupboard doors clearance above the floor. I have kept many old, scraped flat pack furniture units for the "wood" including a wardrobe that our next door neighbours turfed out because a door had come off. It could have been fixed, but they preferred to replace it. They were grateful to get rid of it as I saved them a trip to the dump.
Two 3 metre worktops were then added and checked with a 2 metre spirit level purchased specially for the purpose. The object of the exercise was to achieve a flat and level surface that I could assemble the baseboard frames on and thus be sure that the top surface was flat before adding the surface sheet. Even so some pieces of card were required under the worktops in places to achieve this.

Before cutting anything one needs to think about point blades and hence where any operating mechanisms will be in order to try to avoid them with the diagonals. This can be done in Templot using just track centre lines. Note below that they aren’t all the same way round. Although slightly out of sequence as it already has the top surface fitted, here is a picture to show what I was aiming to achieve.
Baseboard 1.JPG

The first baseboard frame was placed upside down on the worktop and the lengths of the diagonals measured.
My original approach to this was to measure the length of each piece and calculate the angle of the diagonal to be able to cut it with the band saw just in shot. I now cut each piece long enough to just overlap the internal corners and plane the end angles and length to fit.
My first attempts produced diagonal pieces that were a good push fit, but having assembled the board for a dry run discovered that it was no longer square as the pressure of the first diagonals distorted the baseboard and pushed it out of square. I removed them and the squareness returned. So the aim is to plane up the diagonals to be a gentle sliding fit with no end pressure. When all the diagonals were in place and there was no distortion of the frame, each was removed in turn and PVA wood glue applied before placing back into position until all six are done. This then relies on the glue to hold everything in place. The assembly was then left overnight to fully set. Being top surface down the theory was that if the surface is flat then the diagonals would automatically align level with frame when they hit the surface. The results were not always 100%, but close enough for me. A plane and sanding block dealing with any problems when all had set.

Philip Hall
Posts: 1109
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:49 pm

Re: Brimsdown-The last grand project.

Postby Philip Hall » Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:59 pm

Tony,

Interesting that you recycled old units for use in he support structure. My neighbour had a new office installed and donated all his old bookshelves. We used a great deal of them for cross bracing in the baseboard frames, and cut into triangles, as support for a narrow shelf that carries the track beneath the windows at the front of the building. Saved a fortune!

Philip

Tony Wilkins
Posts: 248
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:57 pm

Re: Brimsdown-The last grand project.

Postby Tony Wilkins » Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:11 am

Hi Philip.
Yes and no doubt the quality of the wood was better than one can get today being well seasoned.
Regards
Tony.

Philip Hall
Posts: 1109
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:49 pm

Re: Brimsdown-The last grand project.

Postby Philip Hall » Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:00 am

Tony,

Most of them were furniture board, but of an age as you say, and good quality. One thing was that where the end supports had been standing (for thirty odd years) they had expanded a little with moisture absorbed from the flooring. That didn’t matter for cross supports, of course, but precluded its use for the actual baseboard shelf surface.

Philip

Tony Wilkins
Posts: 248
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:57 pm

Re: Brimsdown-The last grand project.

Postby Tony Wilkins » Mon Apr 30, 2018 5:13 pm

Here is another baseboard frame with a different diagonal arrangement and no top.
DSCF0553.JPG

DSCF0554.JPG

Note the extra ribs around the inside of the top.
DSCF0556.JPG

These are required because the baseboard frames are 4' x 2' but the Sundeala board sheets are 1200 x 600 mm and thus under size.
This is an end shot showing the Pattern makers dowels I fitted. These are not the easiest of things to position accurately, especially with already assembled baseboards. Preferable to fit them to the end boards before assembly when a pair can be clamped together and a pilot hole drilled through both layers and a Fosner bit used in a pillar drill for the dowel recesses. This has far less tendency to wander and any small misalignment causes problems later on. The circular wood pieces are added behind the dowels to provide enough thickness for the fixing screws and are the leftovers from the holes in the cross members cut out with a circular hole saw or tank cutter.
DSCF0557.JPG

Five baseboard frames similar to this were required for the storage sidings and these were all prepared before fitting the surface sheet.
Sundeala has a tendency to curve, indeed much of mine arrived that way and despite conditioning stayed that way. It also seems to have changed its composition from that I used on Green Street. Each frame was generously glued and the Sundeala board placed in position and severely clamped into position and left to set.
The torture chamber 2.JPG
The torture chamber.

The construction method used in these baseboards is not ideal. The corners are glued and screwed into the end grain of the ply as can be seen in some of the pictures. This does not produce a particularly strong joint as was demonstrated by the ease with which I was able to dismantle some of the others. Indeed some joints parted company when I removed the screws. Not very reassuring. My preferred method is to use wood corner blocks glued and screwed as demonstrated by the most recent baseboard I have built.
DSCF0549.JPG

DSCF0551.JPG

DSCF0552.JPG
Last edited by Tony Wilkins on Mon May 28, 2018 7:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tony Wilkins
Posts: 248
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:57 pm

Re: Brimsdown-The last grand project.

Postby Tony Wilkins » Fri May 04, 2018 8:15 am

Baseboards of course require support. My situation with the straight baseboards being about a foot above cupboard units required an alternative solution to legs. I was quite taken with the idea of the L girder principle and have adapted this to my particular situation. Rather than L girders mine are T section. The top piece is 9mm ply 5" wide and the verticals are two strips of 4mm ply 4" wide separated by spacer blocks 3/4" thick. Four would be required for each side of the room, which I did in two batches of four (more of which later). These are 6' long and the band saw made short work of cutting the 6' x 2' boards into strips. The flat worktop surface was used for assembly as these needed to be straight.
The 6' spirit level was use to check the edges of the thin ply strips were straight and any that weren't were carefully trued up with a plane before use.
Rather than just dive in, I decided to construct a prototype to test that the idea was sound.
DSCF0536.JPG

First joints glued and left to set.
DSCF0537.JPG

Ready cut strips of ply on the left.
DSCF0538.JPG

The top row of blocks are just used to spread the pressure of the clamps across the joint during assembly.
DSCF0539.JPG

Two of these were assembled and left to set before the top rail was screwed into place, holes being drilled for the fixing screws to align with the centre of the spacer blocks, or as near as I could manage. Two end boards were then cut from some spare 9mm ply and glued and screwed to the ends of the T girders using corner blocks. They had to be a special shape to fit into a support unit with adjustable feet so that everything could be levelled on the worktops.
Monsterous construction 1.JPG
Monstrous construction

The bottom edge of the end board extends an inch or so below the side rails and the theory was that this would hold the support unit upright. In practice it was discovered that this arrangement was unstable and I had to modify the end board by adding two layers of 9 mm ply to form a slot for the edge of the support unit to latch into. The row of screws holding this internal arrangement can be seen in the above picture. The support unit is intended to support either one end of a rail unit or two depending on the situation.
Here is the prototype subframe with the first two storage yard baseboards in place.
Monsterous construction 2.JPG

Those of you who attended last years Scalefour AGM at Watford may recall seeing them there together with some of the pointwork I had then built, where they generated quite a lot of interest. Not that you would know it from these pictures.
agm02.jpg
agm02.jpg (108.72 KiB) Viewed 1683 times

agm09.jpg
agm09.jpg (74.83 KiB) Viewed 1683 times

Tony.

User avatar
Colin Parks
Posts: 570
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 4:44 pm

Re: Brimsdown-The last grand project.

Postby Colin Parks » Fri May 04, 2018 9:14 pm

Hi Tony,

Looks like your baseboard building is as thorough as your track making! Your re-cycling of materials is quite inspiring and the way to go for the future. For one thing, you would expect the materials to be quite stable after a period of time rather than using newly produced timber products.

All the best,

Colin

Tony Wilkins
Posts: 248
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:57 pm

Re: Brimsdown-The last grand project.

Postby Tony Wilkins » Wed May 09, 2018 8:08 am

Here are a couple of pictures of the inside ends of the support rails showing the fixing arrangement.
The three layers of 9mm ply form a sandwich, the centre slot being the same width as the thickness of the side of the adjustable foot unit.
DSCF0562.JPG

DSCF0563.JPG

The second picture shows the down side of reusing old material. The holes in the end boards are not woodworm but holes left by dropper wires feeding the track as much of the spare ply came from the redundant baseboard tops.

What thickness is your 9mm ply mister?
This may seem like a daft question, but I was to discover notable variations in the nominal thickness of plywood sheet supplied by the various well know timber outlets. I resorted to taking a vernier calliper with me to check the thickness of the stock. I found variations in the 9mm ply from barely 8mm to 8.6mm. None were actually 9mm apart from the old stock I already had. A colleague in NAG who has a decent timber merchant near him obtained some 9mm ply that was actually 9mm thick. I have also checked some 4mm ply I have obtained from a well known DIY store and this is 3.5mm thick, so be warned.
For most uses this variation will probably not matter much, but when making what is in effect a tongue and groove arrangement, mixing different thickness’s of timber produces an unworkable result. This was how I discovered the variation in the first place. I assembled (dry fortunately) an end frame from new stock and no way would it fit onto the foot unit made from old stock.

User avatar
Colin Parks
Posts: 570
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 4:44 pm

Re: Brimsdown-The last grand project.

Postby Colin Parks » Wed May 09, 2018 3:45 pm

Hello Tony,

It looks like a lifetime's experience is going into the construction of those baseboards.

Given your observations on variations in plywood thickness, I wonder if there is a particular type available which is more consistent. In the past, I have used 22mm marine ply for tops and thinner WBP grade ply elsewhere. Despite the screw holes etc., your old ply is surely going to be more stable than new material - the same goes for timber I suppose.

Looking forward to more pictures of your project.

All the best,

Colin

Tony Wilkins
Posts: 248
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:57 pm

Re: Brimsdown-The last grand project.

Postby Tony Wilkins » Thu May 10, 2018 8:25 am

Colin Parks wrote:Hello Tony,

It looks like a lifetime's experience is going into the construction of those baseboards.

Colin

Hi Colin.
Well maybe, but it doesn't necessarily mean that I always get it right first go.

Meanwhile to accompany the above pictures, here are some of a support unit the T girders slot onto with the adjustable feet .
No wood screws were harmed in the manufacture of these items being entirely clamped and glued.
DSCF0572.JPG

DSCF0573.JPG

DSCF0574.JPG

A bit of detail.
The thickness of the end separators is a nominal stock 20mm but in practice slightly less than this. I aimed for 18mm clearance.
The idea behind the design was to support the baseboards on the worktop surface but allow separate legs to be used if needed for some reason. These will slot into the bottom of the support unit and allow adjustment with the screw feet without having to get down to floor level. A consideration as one gets older.
I know this is a lot of extra woodwork, but my situation is a bit special anyway. The T girders can be levelled before the baseboards are placed on top.
Tony.

User avatar
Colin Parks
Posts: 570
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 4:44 pm

Re: Brimsdown-The last grand project.

Postby Colin Parks » Thu May 10, 2018 9:07 am

Hi Tony,

Having the adjustment to the feet from above is a good idea. It does get hard make adjustments right down on the floor as one gets older! Last year, there was a layout exhibited locally which had the adjustable feet at the top of the trestle supports, so that the baseboards were levelled not the trestles. This meant there was no bending down at all. I think the trestles were designed by our fellow S4 Soc. member Bernie Baker, though it was not his layout.

All the best,

Colin

Tony Wilkins
Posts: 248
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:57 pm

Re: Brimsdown-The last grand project.

Postby Tony Wilkins » Thu May 10, 2018 11:04 am

Having successfully proved the T girder principle, a further three T girder pairs and associated supports were assembled and added to the assembly plus baseboards. The baseboards are aligned with Pattern makers dowels as already mentioned and for the moment held together with nuts and bolts. This is the Achilles heal of the system as getting at the bolts and wing nuts through the T girders is challenging in places with access from only one side. The long term plan, when all is finalised, is to use half hinges with loose pins to hold the baseboard ends together. These can hopefully be inserted from above without difficulty.
The next challenge was the curved baseboards at the workshop end of the room. Holes have already been hacked through the workshop partition to accommodate the baseboards continuation into this area as originally planned. There was originally a large workbench that I inherited with the garage. It was enormous and stretched almost the width of the garage and was so deep that it was almost impossible to reach the back of it. It was positioned with the right-hand side against the wall, not much use to a right-handed person for sawing timber. The weight of it made it impossible to move. The top surface consisted of one and a half 8'x 4' 1" plywood sheets and the subframe was 6"x4" timbering. As the house had been owned by a miner, I could hazard a guess where he obtained the timber from. Unfortunately the middle of the bench had sagged about 1/2" as well. In order to shift it I removed the top surface which was nailed in place. This reduced the weight enough to be able to move it. The four legs were fixed with lengths of studding, nuts and washers. I took the decision to dismantle the frame completely and reduce it in size whilst I was about it. As I wanted to reuse some draws that came from under an old bed under the bench for storage, this dictated the width of the bench to a large extent. The various timbers were thus sawn down to the required lengths and reassembled. I added two legs at the centre of the bench frame only to find that the bench now rocked due to the bow in the long beams. Undaunted, I cut the top boards down and refitted them. The bench was moved against the left hand wall and as much weight as I could sensibly find placed on top of it. Over time the bow has disappeared and I now have a reasonably flat, absolutely solid workbench.
The baseboards in this area have to pass over this, so that was another problem area.
Tony.

Tony Wilkins
Posts: 248
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:57 pm

Re: Brimsdown-The last grand project.

Postby Tony Wilkins » Fri May 25, 2018 6:09 pm

The next problem to tackle was the curved baseboards at the layout ends. I decided to construct one set first to see how accurately I could achieve a 90 / 180 degree turn. The other end also will have a lifting flap for access, which will bring further complication and so will be tackled last. I also had some untried ideas to test. First the baseboards were designed such that I knew the joins would fall at a convenient position relative to any pointwork as much of it extends into the end curves to maximise storage yard capacity. In Templot, it is possible to add in baseboard dividers and bracing as track centre lines. This has the benefit of being able to alter things if necessary on screen, knowing that things should fit for real. Each baseboard was then printed out (as centre lines only) on a single sheet of A4 paper at a suitable scale to allow the maximum size for each baseboard. Then the dimensions and angles were obtained from the Templot info box for each Template / timber member of the baseboard. The angles of each join were worked out from the differences between the pegging angles of the various pairs templates where they met. The circled numbers relate to each angle.
Here is an early example with many of the dimensions pencilled in.
Baseboard plan 1.GIF

I later adopted a system whereby the overall dimensions were marked outside of the lines and the required dimension (minus overlapping wood thicknesses) marked inside. The end pieces are always the full width pieces and pairs pre-drilled and joining dowels fitted before use to make sure they mate correctly. It is much easier to achieve this using a small pilot hole drilled through both layers of wood clamped together and a pillar drill to maintain the accuracy required for the Forsner bit when drilling the recesses for the pattern makers dowels than it is once the baseboards are assembled.
From this a cutting list was drawn up for each baseboard, not just for the various lengths of plywood, but also for the angles of the various joining blocks needed to fit into the corners at the joints.
EDIT.
Cutting list for the above baseboard plan.
Baseboard cutting list001.JPG

These were primarily intended for my own use and contain various measurement from which further calculations were made. Also note that the Band saw angles were for the cutting table and are thus subtracted from 90 degrees for the required block angles marked on the above drawing. All notes were made in pencil for ease of subsequent alteration.
END EDIT.

For the straight pieces 9mm plywood was used, however for the curved edges I wanted to try some 5mm bendy ply (also known as flexi-ply) that I had obtained through a fellow NAG member. For those who are as ignorant about such material as I was, this is a specially designed type of plywood with three layers where the grain runs in the same direction. The middle layer is typically thinner than the outer layers resulting the material being very flexible in one plane but not in the other. It is used in the furniture trade among others. The band-saw was then set to work.
Once I had cut a full set of members, these were half lapped where needed and the various angled corner blocks (numbered as they were cut) glued and clamped to the ends of the cross members and allowed to set.
The next step was to try a dry run assembly.
Curved boards 1.jpg

The overall dimensions were carefully checked and any adjustments made at this stage.
Note the next baseboard end fitted to the near end of the baseboard.
Note also the large square being used to check the 90 degree angle.
Curved boards 2.jpg

The left board is a mixture of old and new ply to produce a part curved board. The white piece is at 4' from the far end. I have doubled up the thickness of the bendy-ply at the top with a 1" strip glued along the inside. This stiffens up the bendy-ply considerably and helps hold the correct curvature. A similar strip will also be fitted to the bottom inner edge as well. One problem I found was that once the bendy-ply was screwed to the corner blocks, it distorted the smooth curve I was hoping to achieve due to the flat surface of the blocks. A situation I decided to live with.
Curved boards 3.jpg

The baseboard was then dismantled and glued and screwed together upside down on the worktop to ensure squareness and flatness. Next the diagonals were very carefully cut and fitted ensuring no distortion occurred during the process and the whole thing left to set once again.
Curved boards 4.jpg

The next baseboard was tackled in a similar way up to the dry assembly stage.
Curved boards 5.jpg

Some of these pictures were posted on the Templot forum some time ago when the subject of Baseboards came up.
For reasons that I shall explain shortly, I then decided to tackle the rest of next bit of this curve from the other end.
Curved boards 6.jpg

Although this baseboard is small, it is rather complex. I have made more angled blocks so that the ends of the diagonals are positively held rather than just sitting in the corners and relying on the glue joint only. The resulting baseboard is very strong and stable, but took at least three times as long to assemble and tested my woodworking skills to the limit, so that will be the only one done that way.
Tony.
Last edited by Tony Wilkins on Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:02 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Terry Bendall
Posts: 1521
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:46 am

Re: Brimsdown-The last grand project.

Postby Terry Bendall » Sat May 26, 2018 8:00 am

Vary impressive Tony. Grade A for woodwork! :D Shows the advantages of careful planning and implementation

Tony Wilkins wrote:The other end also will have a lifting flap for access, which will bring further complication


Given the curves a hinged flap may increase the complications unless you can arrange this on a straight section. Possibly a complete lift up section would work if this can be done?

Terry Bendall

Tony Wilkins
Posts: 248
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:57 pm

Re: Brimsdown-The last grand project.

Postby Tony Wilkins » Sat May 26, 2018 1:48 pm

Terry Bendall wrote:Very impressive Tony. Grade A for woodwork! :D Shows the advantages of careful planning and implementation

Tony Wilkins wrote:The other end also will have a lifting flap for access, which will bring further complication


Given the curves a hinged flap may increase the complications unless you can arrange this on a straight section. Possibly a complete lift up section would work if this can be done?

Terry Bendall


Hi Terry.
Thanks for the compliment.
The complication with the lifting flap is that as well as being the first section of the curve, there will also be three curved turnouts on it. The actual baseboard will be four sided but with the sides all straight. In plan it will be the base of a triangle with the apex cut off. This will be part of the last section to be made as I want to make sure it will fit between the two adjacent baseboards. There will not be much room for error as there is pointwork (crossovers) across both joins.
Hopefully the logic of my approach will become clear as things develop, not that I necessarily always know how I am going to tackle a particular issue until I have to address it. I am facing one such situation at the moment caused by using second hand baseboard frames.
Tony.

User avatar
Serjt-Dave
Posts: 227
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:31 pm

Re: Brimsdown-The last grand project.

Postby Serjt-Dave » Sun May 27, 2018 9:18 am

Hi Tony, some fantastic woodworking there. Puts my efforts to shame {should have paid more attention in woodwork at school}. If you ever feel the need to practice making boards before you commit to making your own ones please feel free in get in touch. LOL. Please keep posting images and I'm keen to learn.

All Best

Dave

Tony Wilkins
Posts: 248
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:57 pm

Re: Brimsdown-The last grand project.

Postby Tony Wilkins » Mon May 28, 2018 8:00 pm

Serjt-Dave wrote:{should have paid more attention in woodwork at school}.
All Best

Dave


Hi Dave.
Can't say I learned an awful lot of woodwork at school. I was the one whose Mortise and Tenon joints parted company when the woodwork master picked them up. Our school did one year of woodwork class followed by a year of metalwork whereon we could choose which to carry on with. Only three of my year went back to woodworking and I wasn't one of them.
I learned most of my woodworking from my Father and a member of CLAG who was a pattern maker (in wood) for the car industry, pre CAD / CAM. His carpentry skills were something else. I certainly don't class myself as a craftsman, but I get by.
Many of the methods used here are derived from the construction of and lessons learned from my previous layout Green Street.
Having the correct tools for the job definitely helps in my opinion.
Tony.

Tony Wilkins
Posts: 248
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:57 pm

Re: Brimsdown-The last grand project.

Postby Tony Wilkins » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:29 pm

After constructing one further curved baseboard subframe, all the curved sections were then positioned and support units fabricated to cope with the work bench support. These support units are made from 6mm MDF I had to hand. Starting from the left hand side this was the result. Anyone with an aversion to clutter should perhaps look away now, if they have got this far.
It was at this stage that I discovered the Vice was in the wrong place, in spite of what I thought was forward planning and this had to be shifted to the right some 6 inches before the baseboard could be installed.
Curved boards 7.jpg

Checking and adjusting for level as I go. It will be noted that this baseboard is still unfinished as the unpainted piece of ply is not glued and some of the screws missing as are the diagonals. I subsequently had to shorten this piece of ply slightly in order for the full curve to attain 180 degrees.
Curved boards 8.jpg

In the background of this picture can be seen the four (second hand) baseboard subframes to be used under the scenic section. This decision was to incur additional penalties later on.
Curved boards 9.jpg

View from the other side of the partition showing the view from the main area. The first straight board of the scenic return installed. This needed to be parallel to the storage yard boards and this is critical for what is to come.
Curved boards 10.jpg

When the storage arrangements were designed, a gap was left at a consistent height all the way around the walls, however I am now having second thoughts about the headroom in places.
Having satisfied myself that the geometry of the end curved baseboards was satisfactory, they were separated again for the next stage.
The centre baseboard was dismantled and reassembled with screws and glue.
The next step was to add the top surface. This was cut to shape by the simple expedient of placing the baseboard upside down on the underside of the Sundeala board and marking round with a pencil. This outline was then cut out with the band-saw. Larger baseboards required at least two separate pieces of Sundeala to cover them with support ribs (doubled in thickness here by gluing an inch wide strip of 9mm ply along the top edge) in the frame used to support both edges at a join. Careful thought was needed to make best use of the available full sheets and remnants thereby minimising waste.
Here is one of these baseboards with the surface being glued into place.
Curved boards 11.jpg

As already noted, Sundeala board has a strong tendency to curve, indeed mine arrived that way and despite conditioning mostly stayed that way. There are three packs on the floor behind the floor behind the workmate. Note that the right hand end is off the floor. Yes it really was that bent. Hence the need for very firmly held clamps and coulées to spread the pressure while the glue sets.
Curved boards 12.jpg

Mention has already been made of the Band-saw part visible in the above picture. Below is the weapon of choice. You probably won't be surprised to learn that this was also acquired second hand (primarily for this project) as the result of a chance conversation. It is one of those tools that you soon wonder how you managed without previously.
Weapon of choice.jpg

The single most limiting factor with any Band-saw is the throat depth, this one is 12" and it is often not enough. However bigger Band-saws begin to cost serious money, so one compromises.
The two boxes visible in the background are more kitchen base units awaiting assembly and this was the next job to be tackled followed by a major reorganisation of the scenic side of the garage furniture and a clear-out before the next layout steps could be taken.
Tony.
Last edited by Tony Wilkins on Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.


Return to “Layouts and Operations”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests