Simons workbench industrials. Nonneminstre Coles crane.

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Terry Bendall
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Re: Simons workbench industrials. More mineral wagons

Postby Terry Bendall » Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:20 am

Simon Moore wrote:Doing this encourages me more to keep plodding away & telling myself i can do this.


You have already proved this Simon. :) There comes a time when the thinking needs to stop and the work of building starts. Actually doing something is the best way to learn. :thumb

Terry Bendall

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steamraiser
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Re: Simons workbench industrials. More mineral wagons

Postby steamraiser » Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:59 am

Looking good.

Simon Moore

Re: Simons workbench industrials. More mineral wagons

Postby Simon Moore » Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:44 pm

Thanks Chaps

I fitted the internal ribs to the second of the hopper chassis this evening & then finished the last bits on the lower part of the hopper bodies.

I am at a straight edge now so tomorrow evening i can continue to build the chassis side by side.

This lot turned up in the post today, should keep me out of trouble for a while :)

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Simon Moore

Re: Simons workbench industrials. More mineral wagons

Postby Simon Moore » Sat Feb 27, 2021 2:05 pm

My wheel order arrived from the stores this morning & so i decided on a quick project this morning.

A few years ago a friend of mine bought a collection & amongst the many locos was this tiny Muir Hill tractor sold by Branchlines. It was nicely built & painted & on closer inspection it was a Lawrence / Goddard model which are well sought after. I think i paid fifty quid for it & it has sat in a cupboard ever since.

The original intention was to convert it to EM but having since moved to P4 i thought it deserved its conversion & for the price of a set of lowmac wheels.

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Dead easy conversion in less than 20 minutes.
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Enigma
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Re: Simons workbench industrials. More mineral wagons

Postby Enigma » Sat Feb 27, 2021 4:14 pm

Blimey, those coupling hooks look MASSIVE! But it really is a very small loco. :)

Simon Moore

Re: Simons workbench industrials. More mineral wagons

Postby Simon Moore » Sat Feb 27, 2021 5:28 pm

They probably are but when you put the loco next to a 16t mineral wagon the wagon looks huge.

I have a few models fitted with exactoscale couplings & i wish i could still get them but my failing eyesight is probably going to force me to use smith from now on which i know are overscale but i can just about use them.

Terry Bendall
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Re: Simons workbench industrials. More mineral wagons

Postby Terry Bendall » Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:15 am

Enigma wrote:Blimey, those coupling hooks look MASSIVE


They do but needs must sometimes. I use Smiths couplings when I need 3 link or instanter couplings and whilst ovescale they do give a better chance of coupling up .

Terry Bendall

Enigma
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Re: Simons workbench industrials. More mineral wagons

Postby Enigma » Tue Mar 02, 2021 3:38 pm

Terry Bendall wrote:
Enigma wrote:Blimey, those coupling hooks look MASSIVE


They do but needs must sometimes. I use Smiths couplings when I need 3 link or instanter couplings and whilst ovescale they do give a better chance of coupling up .

Terry Bendall


i totally agree! Even better with a steel bottom link and a small magnetic 'pole'.

Simon Moore

Re: Simons workbench industrials. More mineral wagons

Postby Simon Moore » Sun Mar 07, 2021 8:01 am

It's been one of those weeks this week & i have not had chance to get in the workshop. My knee has been playing up ( old speedway injury ) so i have been getting up at silly o'clock most mornings in pain.

Yesterday i was determined to get weaving & do something. First job was to spray a Bradwell NCB hopper in a basecoat & a red oxide. Today the plan is to spray the black on & then leave it to dry.

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The hoppers i got stalled with so i will comeback to those after this next build. The wife bought me a judith edge 16inch hunslet a few christmases ago & slowly away i have been buying all the parts to complete the kit. I choose Primrose no2 as my prototype which was a local engine from Peckfield colliery here in the West Riding.

he-3715-on-the-embsay-bolton-abbey-steam-railway-september-1980-.jpg


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My last bit the gearbox arrived last week & so i decided to make it as it was not exactly a hard part to build up. If i am honest i am not a big fan of fold up worm & gear gearboxes but this little branchlines gearbox is spot on. I am glad as a lot of judith edge kits use them.

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Now the gearbox is complete today i want the chassis to a rolling chassis. Once i get this going i will happy i can get stuck in. Judith edge & London road models are my favourite kits they build superbly well which i good as i have stacks of them to make.
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Simon Moore

Re: Simons workbench industrials. More mineral wagons

Postby Simon Moore » Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:44 am

I have had a frustrating few days working on the Judith edge kit. I decided to build the kit as designed out of the box without checking the frame spacers firstly.

The frame spacers are EM which leaves around a 2mm space on the axle for P4 wheels which is not something i want. The other thing was the compensation beams that mike includes in the kit. I found these flimsy & not to my liking neither so i halted work on the build.

I slept on it & decided that i will compensate it with hornblock's & a beam & 1 fixed axle for the motor. I have found this system satisfactory & achievable.
Last night i built up the hornblock's & dug out the gibson frame spacers. I intend on marking out the hornblock's this evening & cutting them out once i have dismantled the chassis. Thankfully its only tack soldered together whilst i checked everything.

I hope this is the last of the issues to encounter on the chassis.

Simon Moore

Re: Simons workbench industrials. 16inch Hunslet

Postby Simon Moore » Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:07 pm

Well todays been interesting to say the least!

My day job is a class 1 artic hgv driver doing multi drop. I set off from the yard this morning to Burnley & after dropping one pallet i pulled off the bay & my air suspension dropped & the wheels were sat on the mud guards. That was 09.20am this morning & the breakdown wrecker didn't arrive until after 3pm.

As a result of this i was very late home so my planned workshop time didn't amount to as long as hoped. I have however got started on the chassis. I firstly lined up the frames & tacked them together so i could drill a pivot hole for my compensation beam.
I then cleaned up the frames & used the Highlevel csb jig to pot mark the frames for the hornblock cutouts. This kit doesn't have any so i marked them up & cut the first one out. Its amazing how time flys & before you know it it's time to tidy up & call it a day. Once the chassis is out the way those hoppers are getting finished off before i progress on to the loco body.

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Simon Moore

Re: Simons workbench industrials. 16inch Hunslet

Postby Simon Moore » Sat Mar 13, 2021 9:41 pm

I have finally had a bit of time to go in the garage & find the fret saw to cut out for the hornblocks. I have also soldered the bearings into the fixed axle & prepared the first coupling rod with the cuts needed to articulate them.

With a bit of luck i can get the chassis built tomorrow & have it rolling. The Markits axles are a god send which means the gibsons will sit until its time to fit them & then they only need fitting once.

I need to work out what red is best to paint the model so i can spray up the wheels.

Simon Moore

Re: Simons workbench industrials. 16inch Hunslet

Postby Simon Moore » Tue Mar 16, 2021 6:18 am

Over the weekend i have assembled the basic frames on the hunslet & got the chassis rolling freely with binding at all. Its taken a lot of work to get the chassis to this point as no provision for hornblocks or P4 is designed into the kit.

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Now the chassis is at its basic form & i am not too worried about it any longer i am going to turn my attention to the body. Once the basics of the body are done i will finish off the chassis.

I am going to plod away over the next few weeks & see where i get. Work is taking over at the minute & i spend more hours in a Iveco cab than i care for.
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Serjt-Dave
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Re: Simons workbench industrials. 16inch Hunslet

Postby Serjt-Dave » Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:14 am

Excellent work there Simon. That's one milestone reached. Keep up the good work.

Keep Safe

Dave

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PeteT
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Re: Simons workbench industrials. 16inch Hunslet

Postby PeteT » Tue Mar 16, 2021 1:06 pm

Looking good!

One thing the high level jig allows for, which it doesn't look like you've used - is the hole in the top of the hornguide. Drilling that and pinning the top of the hornguide to the frames makes the job easier (for me at least).

csb jig.JPG
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Simon Moore

Re: Simons workbench industrials. 16inch Hunslet

Postby Simon Moore » Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:37 pm

Cheers for the tip Pete, still getting my head around various things in P4. I have a few of Mike's kits that are like this so i think the next one i will be taking on board the many things i am learning from this build.

This one should turn out well. I have never had a bad model from them yet & i have made a lot of them.

Simon Moore

Re: Simons workbench industrials. 16inch Hunslet

Postby Simon Moore » Fri Mar 19, 2021 8:02 am

I got my silver steel from Eileens yesterday so i could knock up some axles for the slag ladle wagons. I put one together last night & whilst it is built perfectly flat & true i cannot for the life of me get it to pass through pointwork. The back to back is perfectly set & the wheels are straight on the axles.

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Anyone any ideas?
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davebradwell
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Re: Simons workbench industrials. 16inch Hunslet

Postby davebradwell » Fri Mar 19, 2021 8:27 am

It all depends what you call "flat and true". Suggest you try a small handbag mirror on turnout and wagon. Most rigid wagons in fact have quite a bit of slop in them.

DaveB

Simon Moore

Re: Simons workbench industrials. 16inch Hunslet

Postby Simon Moore » Fri Mar 19, 2021 9:12 am

Dave i have had it sat on a piece of plate glass to make sure it has all four wheels down. Its all straight & i have checked everything as i have gone. As soon as it hits the point blade its lifting. I have checked the back to back & those are fine. I have taken up the slop on the axles with some small washers. I have opened up a bearing set on one end so the bottom has a bit of room for downward motion too. They have plenty of weight in them from the castings its really gazumped me.

nigelcliffe
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Re: Simons workbench industrials. 16inch Hunslet

Postby nigelcliffe » Fri Mar 19, 2021 9:28 am

Simon Moore wrote:Dave i have had it sat on a piece of plate glass to make sure it has all four wheels down. Its all straight & i have checked everything as i have gone. As soon as it hits the point blade its lifting. I have checked the back to back & those are fine. I have taken up the slop on the axles with some small washers. I have opened up a bearing set on one end so the bottom has a bit of room for downward motion too. They have plenty of weight in them from the castings its really gazumped me.


I'd try to compensate one axle, rather than just "movement". Or spring an axle with a leaf spring at each end of an axle.
I suspect the rigidity of the wagon isn't helping, and the elongated bearings may be leading to changes in where the wagon is supported (one side, then the other).

davebradwell
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Re: Simons workbench industrials. 16inch Hunslet

Postby davebradwell » Fri Mar 19, 2021 9:41 am

But have you checked the point for flatness?

Actually, it sounds as if the point blade might be your culprit. Wasn't something done to the wheels? If the flange has a shrp corner, or the flange at too steep an angle it will pick-up on any slight protrusion on the blade. There's been a lot on the forum about blade tip profile. Is the blade above the sock rail? Just because most wheels go over a point doesn't mean they all will and you can have rogue wheels as well as rogue blades. Welcome to the world of P4 reality.

DaveB

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Julian Roberts
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Re: Simons workbench industrials. 16inch Hunslet

Postby Julian Roberts » Fri Mar 19, 2021 11:10 am

Simon Moore wrote:Dave i have had it sat on a piece of plate glass to make sure it has all four wheels down. Its all straight & i have checked everything as i have gone. As soon as it hits the point blade its lifting.


Simon you've got to the nub of the whole thing here. It's extraordinary how P4 flanges can just go straight on. But it's extraordinary how just a bit of filing can transform this problem. It's the design of the point blade that matters. Did you use joggles?

I'm just writing up everything I've learned about this from viewtopic.php?t=6399 in an easier to read summary which I'll post when it's done. But it won't say anything that isn't said here on Feb 14 2018 -
viewtopic.php?t=5727

But I'm afraid I don't think REALLY reliable running can ever be achieved without some form of compensation or springing, and its at the point blade that it shows, especially when propelling. Many here disagree :o so apologies all round.

allanferguson
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Re: Simons workbench industrials. 16inch Hunslet

Postby allanferguson » Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:41 pm

The wheels appear to be "specials" and I wonder whether the flanges are conforming to P4 specifications. any deviation in terms of flange angle, flange tip "roundness", especially if associated with miniscule overgauge may cause flange climb, The tips of switch blades are often prone to a tiny track undergauge, and this may be helped by tapering down the tops of the switch blades for a short distance. The prototype dealt with this problem on main lines with flange lubricators, but on lines such as these they got over it by being heavy enough. Brute force and ignorance rules!

Allan F

Enigma
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Re: Simons workbench industrials. 16inch Hunslet

Postby Enigma » Fri Mar 19, 2021 2:25 pm

I'm building one of Mike's chassis in OO at present (a 'commission') and must admit I've found the compensation parts a bit flimsy as well. In this kit (a 14" Hunslet) the 'double' beams have a central pivot hole and a corresponding one on the sideframe etch. I've built it using these parts - but if it was mine I would have used hornguides and axle boxes like you. When I need to mark out frames in pairs I ream the axle holes to a tight(ish) fit on top hat bearings and fit the frames together using bearings through 2 of the axle holes with the side frames pressed together. Any drilling or sawing can be done without the necessity of soldering the sides together. I also remove the spring hangers so I can remove and fit axles at will during the build process and also fit the wheels to the axles without having to do this through the frames - a lot easier especially with the gearbox axle. I often then solder the springs to the bottom of the axle boxes once I've finished using a short length of scrap etch located into the exposed 'slot' on the underside of the axlebox. To retain axles during use I use a brass tube/wire method.

Simon Moore

Re: Simons workbench industrials. 16inch Hunslet

Postby Simon Moore » Fri Mar 19, 2021 6:31 pm

Thanks for the tips guys i am investigating all the bits at present you have all mentioned. The wheels were turned up for me by Jeremy suter so should be P4. The point isn't fixed at present its still loose as i have not got around to fixing everything down.

Enigma so Dave got you to build it. He asked me to build it but i am too busy. Those beams are crap, mike does a superb kit but they are pants those beams.


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