Mitchell Castle bogie

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zebedeesknees
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Mitchell Castle bogie

Postby zebedeesknees » Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:34 am

This kit design from the 1990s was S-o-t-A at the time, one driving axle rigid, the other two compensated, and the bogie 'just along for the ride'. One of the bogie axles rigid, the other 'compensated' to try to keep it on the track, but otherwise it was just a cosmetic appendage.
The frame had circular holes at one end, and slots at the other, as do the four equalising (not) beams, which were designed to fit on either side of the frame side plates, with a cosmetic cwm spring casting between them. All holes at one end, all slots at the other.
But the beams could be soldered together with one reversed, so that circular bearing holes were at each end. The space where the cosmetic spring was intended to fit is ideal, somewhat ironically, for the handrail knob anchors and the spring wires that enable the sprung equalisation.

CastleBogie02.jpg
The components


The frame shown is the EM one from the kit, as the ideal locations of the handrail knobs was somewhat uncertain, and I wanted to prove the possibility before committing the P4 one. As it happened, instinct and a little careful measurement prevailed. The wires are 0.014", which feels about right, but of course alternative diameters are available should testing indicate different.

CastleBogie05.jpg
Assembled


The other bogie components are not so readily detached from the EM to the P4, and unfortunately, due to the lockdown, I do not have access to the kit instructions or a parts list, just an exploded view of the components. If any member has a copy of the Mitchell Castle instructions, I would be most grateful to receive a scan so that the chassis can be completed by the time international travel resumes!

Ted.

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johndarch
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Re: Mitchell Castle bogie

Postby johndarch » Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:17 pm

Hope these are what you are looking for
Castle parts.jpg

Castle bogie instructions.jpg

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zebedeesknees
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Re: Mitchell Castle bogie

Postby zebedeesknees » Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:19 pm

johndarch wrote:Hope these are what you are looking for


That is helpful John, thank you. But I really need the full instruction set to ascertain what Mr. Mitchell intended for the front of the frames, including which castings were supposed to go where. And a parts list to identify some of the more obscure parts. I may yet have to wait for international travel to resume!

Ted.

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Rod Cameron
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Re: Mitchell Castle bogie

Postby Rod Cameron » Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:21 pm

Where are you Ted?
Rod

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zebedeesknees
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Re: Mitchell Castle bogie

Postby zebedeesknees » Fri Jun 12, 2020 8:10 am

Rod Cameron wrote:Where are you Ted?


Hi Rod, I am shielding at home in the 'Forest Gate Works'... My 'Warder' hasn't let me out since the middle of March! I may get parole at the end of this month. I can get things done, but I get interrupted every 45 minutes or so with a big mug of tea, which means I also get interrupted about every hour... If that wasn't the case, I'd get interrupted that often by concern that she hadn't interrupted me...

My address hasn't changed, I think I shared my postcode, E7 0NN on here before when pointing out that I am surrounded by railways.
Cheers!
Ted.

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johndarch
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Re: Mitchell Castle bogie

Postby johndarch » Fri Jun 12, 2020 8:15 am

Hi Ted,
I have two sets of instructions. The first came when I bought the first kit fro Malcolm Mitchell. These are very detailed but are poorly printed and do ramble on a bit. The second set came with a kit bought much later from David Geen. They are much briefer and rely a lot more on the drawings. Unfortunately, page 9 (which has most of the frame instructions) is missing as page 7 was photocopied twice instead! I do have the complete parts list. Is it the full instructions you need or just the chassis. Do you have all the drawings?

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johndarch
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Re: Mitchell Castle bogie

Postby johndarch » Fri Jun 12, 2020 8:16 am

I can photocopy what you need and pop it in the post but I will need an address.

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grovenor-2685
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Re: Mitchell Castle bogie

Postby grovenor-2685 » Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:41 am

zebedeesknees wrote:
Rod Cameron wrote:Where are you Ted?


Hi Rod, I am shielding at home in the 'Forest Gate Works'... My 'Warder' hasn't let me out since the middle of March! I may get parole at the end of this month. I can get things done, but I get interrupted every 45 minutes or so with a big mug of tea, which means I also get interrupted about every hour... If that wasn't the case, I'd get interrupted that often by concern that she hadn't interrupted me...

My address hasn't changed, I think I shared my postcode, E7 0NN on here before when pointing out that I am surrounded by railways.
Cheers!
Ted.

I think Rod was querying the significance of international travel to get you to your instructions. Thought that you may be stranded in Spain or somewhere more exotric. :)
Regards
Keith
Grovenor Sidings

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Rod Cameron
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Re: Mitchell Castle bogie

Postby Rod Cameron » Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:00 am

grovenor-2685 wrote:
zebedeesknees wrote:
Rod Cameron wrote:Where are you Ted?


Hi Rod, I am shielding at home in the 'Forest Gate Works'... My 'Warder' hasn't let me out since the middle of March! I may get parole at the end of this month. I can get things done, but I get interrupted every 45 minutes or so with a big mug of tea, which means I also get interrupted about every hour... If that wasn't the case, I'd get interrupted that often by concern that she hadn't interrupted me...

My address hasn't changed, I think I shared my postcode, E7 0NN on here before when pointing out that I am surrounded by railways.
Cheers!
Ted.

I think Rod was querying the significance of international travel to get you to your instructions. Thought that you may be stranded in Spain or somewhere more exotric. :)


I was thinking more Cornwall ...
Rod

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zebedeesknees
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Re: Mitchell Castle bogie

Postby zebedeesknees » Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:19 am

johndarch wrote:I can photocopy what you need and pop it in the post but I will need an address.


That would be great John, will pm you.

Ted.

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JackBlack
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Re: Mitchell Castle bogie

Postby JackBlack » Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:28 am

grovenor-2685 wrote:I think Rod was querying the significance of international travel to get you to your instructions. Thought that you may be stranded in Spain or somewhere more exotric. :)


It's me that's the problem! It's my Castle, I'm stuck in Portugal and the instructions are in my room in London (along with my stash of kits, tools, bits and bobs etc etc), all very frustrating....

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zebedeesknees
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Re: Mitchell Castle bogie

Postby zebedeesknees » Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:33 am

Rod Cameron wrote:
I was thinking more Cornwall ...


In my dreams...!! Our Daughter, hubby and two grandchildren live in Plymouth, and much as I enjoy locked-down modelling here, I would rather be there. The History of Plymouth's railways and trams would satisfy sufficiently.. GW and LSWR, Turnchapel, Cattedown, the original Devonport terminus...

No, the answer is that the owner of the Castle is stuck in Portugal, and the instructions are in a pied-a-terre in West London.

Ted.

DougN
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Re: Mitchell Castle bogie

Postby DougN » Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:20 pm

This might sound crazy but could the list here have a section for instructions? Thankfully brassmasters have theirs online along with their Finney kits. No doubt Chris at high level might put his up on his website but older kits etc as people find them scan them and up load?

Is this a good idea to solve these types of problems?
Doug
Still not doing enough modelling

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Flymo748
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Re: Mitchell Castle bogie

Postby Flymo748 » Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:35 am

DougN wrote:This might sound crazy but could the list here have a section for instructions? Thankfully brassmasters have theirs online along with their Finney kits. No doubt Chris at high level might put his up on his website but older kits etc as people find them scan them and up load?

Is this a good idea to solve these types of problems?


Doug,

this is a very useful idea. It's something that I've been doing at a personal level for a while:

Kit instructions example.JPG


However, in terms of copyright, there may be a world of difference between saving copies for personal use and making publicly available. I suspect that is less of an issue for suppliers like Brassmasters who do this themselves, but the two scenarios of (i) those who don't and (ii) deceased (in the commercial sense) producers would need to be clarified.

On the day that I leave the Committee (for it is Not The AGM today), I'm acutely aware of the danger of being one of those people who cry "do this!" without any sense of ownership...

It would need a proper consideration though, from someone with a subject matter knowledge, and a formal policy which should be respected. Just to keep the Society with a good reputation.

Perhaps the solution is to ask the owners of ranges still in production for permission on behalf of the Society. They may even see it as a marketing tool. I certainly do for 5522, http://www.5522models.co.uk/?page_id=75, which I really must update, as the whole website should be.

Cheers
Paul Willis
Deputy Chairman (for about the next six hours)
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk

DougN
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Re: Mitchell Castle bogie

Postby DougN » Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:40 am

Thanks Paul. I agree it is a mine field when the legalities are included. I guess solutions to the problem are not straightforward and could take time and effort to file and make accessible, whether publicly or to members only. The interesting thing is even the manufacturers struggle at times as I believe slaters had to get original copies of their wagon instructions when they had sucked back the kits from cooper craft.

Worth the thought for the committee to have a think about.
Doug
Still not doing enough modelling

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zebedeesknees
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Re: Mitchell Castle bogie

Postby zebedeesknees » Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:28 pm

Flymo748 wrote:
DougN wrote:This might sound crazy but could the list here have a section for instructions? Thankfully brassmasters have theirs online along with their Finney kits. No doubt Chris at high level might put his up on his website but older kits etc as people find them scan them and up load?

Is this a good idea to solve these types of problems?


Doug,

this is a very useful idea. It's something that I've been doing at a personal level for a while:

Perhaps the solution is to ask the owners of ranges still in production for permission on behalf of the Society. They may even see it as a marketing tool. I certainly do for 5522, http://www.5522models.co.uk/?page_id=75, which I really must update, as the whole website should be.

Cheers
Paul Willis
Deputy Chairman (for about the next six hours)


I think this is a great idea, perhaps a Committee position for someone with charm and persuasion. (clearly not me). But I can offer .pdfs of several of the chassis kits that Bill recently withdrew from his website for the personal use of members.

Some years ago, the late Dave Haswell handed me a part-built 2-6-4T in a Lima (!) box with no instructions and lots of tiny parts, many of which were cut from the fret. From the wheels and the shape of the running plate, and the smokebox/boiler/firebox castings I would guess it to be a Gibson Stanier. If anyone has a copy of the instructions, etc., I would be most grateful for a scan.

Ted.

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Horsetan
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Re: Mitchell Castle bogie

Postby Horsetan » Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:57 pm

....the late Dave Haswell handed me a part-built 2-6-4T in a Lima (!) box with no instructions and lots of tiny parts, many of which were cut from the fret. From the wheels and the shape of the running plate, and the smokebox/boiler/firebox castings I would guess it to be a Gibson Stanier. If anyone has a copy of the instructions, etc., I would be most grateful for a scan...


I have instructions for the 3-cyl Stanier 2-6-4T, but need to remember where I put them.

Presumably yours is the 2-cyl?
That would be an ecumenical matter.

DougN
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Re: Mitchell Castle bogie

Postby DougN » Sun Jun 14, 2020 6:57 am

This is exactly the thing I was talking about. Horse has lost his, Zebedeesknees doesn't have his! So waiting on the generosity of the great community to find and share another set! :thumb
Doug
Still not doing enough modelling

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David B
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Re: Mitchell Castle bogie

Postby David B » Sun Jun 14, 2020 8:16 am

DougN wrote:This might sound crazy but could the list here have a section for instructions? Thankfully brassmasters have theirs online along with their Finney kits. No doubt Chris at high level might put his up on his website but older kits etc as people find them scan them and up load?

Is this a good idea to solve these types of problems?


I offered to do this a few years ago but it was not taken up.

billbedford
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Re: Mitchell Castle bogie

Postby billbedford » Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:00 am

Flymo748 wrote:However, in terms of copyright, there may be a world of difference between saving copies for personal use and making publicly available. I suspect that is less of an issue for suppliers like Brassmasters who do this themselves, but the two scenarios of (i) those who don't and (ii) deceased (in the commercial sense) producers would need to be clarified.


All you have to do is ask permission from the copyright holder. For ranges that are no longer extant, a note can be attached to the effect that the items will be removed if the copyright holder objects to them being made public. Of course, you will have to have some sort of test to ensure that the person who objects is actually the copyright owner.
Bill Bedford
Mousa Models
http://www.mousa.biz

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Horsetan
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Re: Mitchell Castle bogie

Postby Horsetan » Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:43 am

DougN wrote:This is exactly the thing I was talking about. Horse has lost his, ....


I haven't lost mine. I just can't remember where I put them!!
That would be an ecumenical matter.

DougN
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Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:57 am

Re: Mitchell Castle bogie

Postby DougN » Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:21 am

Oh ok I believe you :D
Doug
Still not doing enough modelling

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zebedeesknees
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Re: Mitchell Castle bogie

Postby zebedeesknees » Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:21 am

Horsetan wrote:
....the late Dave Haswell handed me a part-built 2-6-4T in a Lima (!) box with no instructions and lots of tiny parts, many of which were cut from the fret. From the wheels and the shape of the running plate, and the smokebox/boiler/firebox castings I would guess it to be a Gibson Stanier. If anyone has a copy of the instructions, etc., I would be most grateful for a scan...


I have instructions for the 3-cyl Stanier 2-6-4T, but need to remember where I put them.

Presumably yours is the 2-cyl?


Thanks Ivan, without the instructions, the etch frame, or even the box, I'm not sure how to tell. One clue I have is the Hornby body numbered 2546 on the shelf, which is a 2-cylinder. I am informed that the Hornby body is/was more accurate than the Gibson castings, and the allocations of the 2-cyl allow for more options. I would guess that there are more similarities than differences in the instructions.

Incidentally, the BR database indicates that the first 22 3-Cyl locos were all allocated to Northwich from Nat. to withdrawal, which is odd since I saw 7 of those during my spotting days in the London area, and only 4 of the later numbers.

Ted.

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grovenor-2685
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Re: Mitchell Castle bogie

Postby grovenor-2685 » Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:42 am

What BR database is that? My understanding was that, except for wartime, almost all the 37 stayed on the LTS until electrification. Mass withdrawal was 1962.
Regards
Keith
Grovenor Sidings

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zebedeesknees
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Re: Mitchell Castle bogie

Postby zebedeesknees » Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:55 pm

grovenor-2685 wrote:What BR database is that?


http://www.brdatabase.info/index.php

grovenor-2685 wrote:My understanding was that, except for wartime.


Aaaa-Ha! That may be why 42500/21 were listed as allocated to Northwich in 1948..

grovenor-2685 wrote:Mass withdrawal was 1962.


Except for 1 in 1960 and the 7 in '61, if the database is correct.

Ted.


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