High Level 03 Chassis Build

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Blue & Yellow
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Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:28 pm

High Level 03 Chassis Build

Postby Blue & Yellow » Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:31 pm

Hi

I was planning to do regular progress updates on this build on here as well as on other social media.
However.... This kit will be considerably easier to build than loading photos up to this site!!

Can anybody tell me how I actually load photos up to here?

Cheers, Graham.

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Will L
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Re: High Level 03 Chassis Build

Postby Will L » Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:45 pm


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Flymo748
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Re: High Level 03 Chassis Build

Postby Flymo748 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:38 pm



Or you can now do it in an even more straightforward way, by dragging the image into the text reply box, then dropping it.

It appears in the "Attachments" box below, and you just place your cursor in the appropriate place in the text box and click [Place inline]

Like this:

Designer showerhead.JPG


You can then add a tag if you wish, manually, but if there is a sensible filename, that can be enough.

BTW, there is a P4 modelling connection to this seemingly random image!

Cheers
Flymo
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk

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MarkS
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Re: High Level 03 Chassis Build

Postby MarkS » Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:13 am

BTW, there is a P4 modelling connection to this seemingly random image!


Your new airbrush from the tanning salon?
Cheers,

Mark.
"In the end, when all is said and done, more will have been said than done..."

Blue & Yellow
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Re: High Level 03 Chassis Build

Postby Blue & Yellow » Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:45 pm

Cheers guys, much appreciated. In future ill try not to upload photos on here with my 2 year old daughter playing up at the same time :D

Graham.

Blue & Yellow
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Re: High Level 03 Chassis Build

Postby Blue & Yellow » Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:55 pm

30707062_1947368315304580_2709798831024766976_n.jpg
Now that's sorted let the butchery commence :D

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RobM
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Re: High Level 03 Chassis Build

Postby RobM » Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:17 pm

Enjoy..... :thumb .....High Level, an excellent choice, almost build themselves......
Rob
http://www.robmilliken.co.uk
Updated December 2016

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Flymo748
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Re: High Level 03 Chassis Build

Postby Flymo748 » Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:37 am

Enjoy the build! High Level kits are wonderful to put together.

Just be patient, as the level of detail is more than normal on an etched kit, and given their diminutive size, it adds to the fiddliness. But it's so satisfying.

You might find this of interest, for a read through before you start off...

https://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1333&p=9765

Do keep us posted on progress.
Cheers
Flymo
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk

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Flymo748
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Re: High Level 03 Chassis Build

Postby Flymo748 » Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:38 am

I forgot to say...

John's build sequence starts with an almost identical photograph ;-)

Cheers
Flymo
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk

Blue & Yellow
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Re: High Level 03 Chassis Build

Postby Blue & Yellow » Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:54 pm

HI

I have literally just seen the photo in question for the first time. It's uncanny isn't it but I managed to get a Panzer MKIV J in the back ground.
This is the progress so far and up to now it's been a pretty easy build. However, as it's my first chassis build in any gauge/scale I don't have an Axel/Hornblock jig. So the question is how do I do it on the cheap if at all possible?

Building up the rods later on this eve.

Thanks, Graham.
Attachments
31131101_1953812487993496_1674669780923056128_n.jpg

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Flymo748
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Re: High Level 03 Chassis Build

Postby Flymo748 » Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:58 pm

Blue & Yellow wrote: However, as it's my first chassis build in any gauge/scale I don't have an Axel/Hornblock jig. So the question is how do I do it on the cheap if at all possible?


PM me your address, and I'll stick my spare set of hornblock jig axles in the post...

I don't need them at the moment, and all it will cost you is a second class stamp to send them back when you're done with them.

HTH
Flymo
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk

Blue & Yellow
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Re: High Level 03 Chassis Build

Postby Blue & Yellow » Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:38 pm

Thanks Flymo, Very appreciated. Graham.

Blue & Yellow
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Re: High Level 03 Chassis Build

Postby Blue & Yellow » Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:12 pm

It's been wile since I last posted an update on the build and it's coming along nicely... Or I should say it was coming along nicely. I can't fault the kit in any way and it's been a pleasure to build without any problems until now, the wheel fitting stage. I'm using Gibson wheels and I've managed, with some difficulty to get them wobble free but the whole chassis bobs ever so slightly up and down as obviously the axles are not in the exact centre of the wheel/s. This is frustrating as I will have to buy another set of wheels. I do have a GW wheel press but does anyone know where I could be going wrong?

Thanks, Graham.

Andrew Ullyott
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Re: High Level 03 Chassis Build

Postby Andrew Ullyott » Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:19 pm

Hi Graham
It may not be you. I had the exact same problem with my 03. I got through a couple of extra axles worth of wheels during my build and that included bushing out an axle after reaming through on a lathe. I also know a very respected modeller who also had the same problem. He only solved it by using Ultrascale, with the inherent cost they bring. We weren't convinced that the Gibson wheels were truly circular. If you can take the tyre off you might check for moulding pips on the plastic wheel centre which sometimes can throw a tyre out of true.
In the end I accepted the slight bounce with the Gibson wheels as apparently the real thing bobs about quite a bit too.
Good luck!

Jeremy Good
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Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:36 pm

Re: High Level 03 Chassis Build

Postby Jeremy Good » Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:35 pm

I’ve been having the same problem with mine but I persevered as you can buy a lot of Gibson wheels for the price of the Ultrascale set!

My pet theory, so far unproven, is that the moulded balance weights don’t have the same flexibility as the spoked section of the wheel which helps to push the axle slightly off centre. I’ve now got 5 out of 6 wheels running true but this has only been with a lot of tinkering.

Following various advice the axle ends have been chamfered slightly and then a gentle curve introduced to remove sharp edges. The axle holes in the wheels have been gently reamed to remove any lumps and try to ensure the axle can go part way in (about a third of the way in) without being forced. The axle holes were also countersunk with a 5mm drill again to ease the entry into the axle hole. This seems to work if set up carefully but you also need to be sure that the crankpins are perpendicular to the wheel backs before trying to use the GW wheel press.

Once the wheels are ready to go in the axle is introduced part way into the hole before the GW press is pushed tighter together. I also create a small plasticard overlay on the face of the wheel so the the wheel press is pushing against the boss/tyre rather than giving it any opportunity to twist, even a slight twist will cause a wobble.

Hope this helps. I’ve just got the final wheel to do once the workshop comes back down to a sensible temperature.

Jeremy

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Will L
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Re: High Level 03 Chassis Build

Postby Will L » Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:36 pm

Hint. On a compensated chassis, it will bob most noticeably, if an eccentric wheel is on the fixed axle. An eccentric wheel on the compensated axle(s) will be significantly less obvious. Of course a CSB sprung chassis will be affected even less.

Philip Hall
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Re: High Level 03 Chassis Build

Postby Philip Hall » Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:56 pm

Jeremy, your theory about the balance weights sounds interesting, but as the same slight eccentricity sometimes occurs with other kinds of Gibson wheels, it’s probably not that. Sometimes you get eccentricity, which can be soaked up with compensation as Will says, particularly if all wheelsets can move up and down. However, anything more than about 2-3 thou runout on a wheel and that idea doesn’t work. Nor does it work if you are one of those renegades like me who use RTR rigid chassis from time to time.

In those instances the only option (apart from exchange) is to true the wheel up, by popping off the tyre, skimming the centre and gluing the tyre back on (simple description for about four hours work on six wheels). At a more basic level, taking off the tyre and making sure any moulding pip is cleaned smooth from the centre can help. Otherwise it’s Ultrascale. But I like Gibson wheels, so I will spend some time fettling them to make sure I get the best out of them. Sometimes I feel that the much tighter fit of tyres these days might introduce some tiny distortion of the tyre. The difference between an interference fit for a tyre and a loose one is very small!

Wobble is often the case of the tyre moving on the centre as the wheel is pressed on the axle, although with the modern tighter fit of tyres to centres this is less the case than it used to be. If I true up a wheel, I always skim the front face of the moulded rim to make sure it’s at right angles to the hole.

Philip
Last edited by Philip Hall on Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:23 am, edited 2 times in total.

nigelcliffe
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Re: High Level 03 Chassis Build

Postby nigelcliffe » Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:12 am

I've noticed a perception issue with eccentricity. In 2mm Scale, I assemble a large fraction of the wagon wheels. Those undergo testing. Some years ago we had problems with eccentricity, and did a lot of measurements and observations. We found that we might have an eccentricity measure of anywhere from 0.005 to 0.10mm, distributed across the whole range. But in tests under vehicles we found there was a critical measure when suddenly the bobbing up/down became visible, and the wagons were hopping up/down like the a clown's comedy car. Below that measure and they looked fine.

So, the issue might be that the loco wheels are varying over a range, but at a critical value the eccentricity becomes noticeable.


- Nigel

Blue & Yellow
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Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:28 pm

Re: High Level 03 Chassis Build

Postby Blue & Yellow » Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:53 pm

Thanks all for the tips and advice. It all works but I'm not happy with the 'bobbing' wheels or the Gibson plunger pickups (Will try something different next time). Going to buy another set of Gibson wheels and try again. It's a shame Ultrascales are not currently available as they are worth every penny.

Cheers Graham.

Philip Hall
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Re: High Level 03 Chassis Build

Postby Philip Hall » Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:24 pm

Plunger pickups are a dead loss, effectively acting as a heavy brake on the wheels. Wire of any sort is much better.

Philip

Blue & Yellow
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Re: High Level 03 Chassis Build

Postby Blue & Yellow » Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:12 pm

E481191E-0A82-4DF8-81E4-CE9C55E00A0E.jpeg
Attachments
274B0FFA-8858-4E7B-A982-F48E4440EEB4.jpeg
061DE60C-28A7-42D4-A243-DC3F8684C294.jpeg

Blue & Yellow
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Re: High Level 03 Chassis Build

Postby Blue & Yellow » Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:14 pm

A few pics so far of the build.

Tony Wilkins
Posts: 390
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Re: High Level 03 Chassis Build

Postby Tony Wilkins » Wed Aug 01, 2018 8:52 pm

Philip Hall wrote:Plunger pickups are a dead loss, effectively acting as a heavy brake on the wheels. Wire of any sort is much better.

Philip

My experience with plunger pickups mirrors Philips. The large size of the contact area can cause problems. As I was not convinced by the commercial offerings, I designed and made some of my own using 0.5mm diam copper wire and turned plastic sprue for the bushes for an 08 chassis some years ago. There are two main problems I encountered. One is with the plastic centres occasionally lifting the plunger off the tyre if the back of the centre is proud of the tyre and alignment is out between the plunger and the wheel tyre. The second is the tendency for the treads to rapidly collect dirt and lose pickup as a result. I have for many years preferred tread scraper pickups for this reason.

I have taken an interest in this thread as I have one of these chassis kits to build myself in a bid to cure the severe limp my 03 currently suffers. Yes I know it is mainly the wheels. but I am not totally convinced that I have the Perseverance chassis absolutely right either.
Regards
Tony.

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Flymo748
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Re: High Level 03 Chassis Build

Postby Flymo748 » Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:14 am

Blue & Yellow wrote:Thanks all for the tips and advice. It all works but I'm not happy with the 'bobbing' wheels or the Gibson plunger pickups (Will try something different next time). Going to buy another set of Gibson wheels and try again. It's a shame Ultrascales are not currently available as they are worth every penny.

Cheers Graham.


Graham,

Forgive me if I'm teaching you to suck eggs, but I've been mulling over one comment to make about this.

When you mentioned "buy another set of Gibson wheels", I hope that you're not intending the throw the baby out with the bathwater.

I've had issues with Gibson wheels in the past, as have others. When you are buying something that by the standards of the competitors is cheap and cheerful, that is what you occasionally get. It's not a criticism, it's horses for courses - I had to buy a plastic jug yesterday for mixing fuel in, so I went to Poundland rather than John Lewis...

I'm suggesting checking the wheels that you have carefully before dismantling your chassis. It may be that only two out of the six are off-centre with the axles. You may have one true wheel and one squiffy wheel on an axle. It makes no sense to remove the "good" wheel only to risk a worse replacement or damaging a wheel refiutting it unecessarily.

Good luck, and keep us all posted with progress :-)

Cheers
Flymo
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk

High Level Kits
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Re: High Level 03 Chassis Build

Postby High Level Kits » Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:33 am

Colin will provide replacement wheel centres on request with a SAE if you have problems. I wonder if it might be worth trying some Caley Pug centres instead - no moulded balance weigths which could cause the concentricity - and detail them yourself. You'd need to check with Colin that they'll fit the 03 rims you have... Just a thought.


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