Berrington and Eye 1912 (Herefordshire)

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petermeyer
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Berrington and Eye 1912 (Herefordshire)

Postby petermeyer » Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:19 pm

Having posted in praise of the wrap function in Templot, I thought it might be an idea to post my own experience as I am literally building the layout onto a blow-up of an old O/S map and thought this could be a first.

Berrington and Eye was a small station on the North to West GWR/LNWR joint line. This is the plan showing the O/S map wrapped around the track plan

plan.jpg

And these are templates that I made therefrom to make the baseboards...

Templates.jpg

…and the baseboards subsequently built

baseboards.jpg

A fuller blow-by-blow is on RMWeb but if there is demand for me to elaborate here, I can.

Another member on RMWeb who lives/works nearby kindly offered to measure the station building (which is now in private ownership) and produced some wonderful scale drawings. I’ve overlaid the building footprint drawing over the O/S map and this shows how accurate the whole is.

IMG_1705.jpg

And as can be seen, the track is now also down...
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Last edited by petermeyer on Fri Oct 01, 2021 7:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

petermeyer
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Re: Berrington and Eye

Postby petermeyer » Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:54 pm

Baseboards5.jpg

This closer perspective probably displays the detail better. This is the centre and southern boards (of only 3) facing towards Hereford. On the right is the up platform followed by the signal box and then an embankment upon which is the up home signal. On the left in the yard is a dock. I have concluded that behind it is not a railway but an agricultural building but beyond is a plate layers hut next to the down entry into the yard.

This being a joint line, the track was under the management of the LNWR till around 1907/1908 at which point the GWR took over. Evidence that the GWR had a gang at Berrington and Eye is in that one of their number was killed in WW1 as is commemorated on the plaque at Chester.

G_Vaughan_packer copy.jpg

I built the track to LNWR spec on the basis that the GWR might not have replaced it all by 1912. But if anyone has evidence to the contrary, please let me know.

This is a shot from the opposite end of the baseboard with the track laid:

image3.jpg
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martinm

Re: Berrington and Eye

Postby martinm » Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:19 pm

On the left in the yard is a dock. I have concluded that behind it is not a railway but an agricultural building but beyond is a plate layers hut next to the down entry into the yard.

Hi there,

Given that the plan doesn't show any boundary to the yard, I'd suggest that what is shown is a weighbridge and office. They are often near to the exit, but their location can vary quite considerably.

regards,

martin

petermeyer
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Re: Berrington and Eye

Postby petermeyer » Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:19 pm

Thanks Martin

I don't have the width to get in the whole yard so it has to be cropped but I should be able to include the weighbridge and office. I was referring to the building next to the dock (circled):

map_withTrack.jpg

I think on the following image you can just see some livestock in the enclosure behind the dock and I am pretty sure it is some agricultural building/shelter.

Berringtonandeye013.jpg

The dock is interesting too as it does not have any railings trackside.

The location of the shack has also moved compared with the map and on some maps it's not there at all! So on that basis I probably won't include it.

Unknown.jpg
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John Palmer
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Re: Berrington and Eye

Postby John Palmer » Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:27 pm

I wonder whether the dock enclosure was not treated as forming part of the railway estate - the tye marks on the ordnance plans suggest that it was not. The area of the railway land seems to have diminished somewhat over the years, as it's shown as 7.932 acres on the 1928 edition of the plan.

Perhaps the shack was a provender store for animals in transit?

martinm

Re: Berrington and Eye

Postby martinm » Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:14 pm

[quoteThe dock is interesting too as it does not have any railings trackside.[/quote]
Sorry, I misunderstood your text.
I don't think it's a cattle dock in the normal sense - it appears to have no 'rear' fence either and is separated from the yard by a gate. That might suggest that the cattle came in from the adjacent field? Or is that a wall?
The shed is away from the 'dock' fence, well away from the gate on its side.
Don't know if that helps?

regards,

martin

petermeyer
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Re: Berrington and Eye

Postby petermeyer » Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:50 am

I have wondered whether the dock was initially for the loading and unloading of carriages and horses. It has quite a substantial ramp in the maps.

The line was built, in the 1850's, on land owned by the then occupants of Berrington Hall (now National Trust). A condition was that they had their own waiting room in the station building. The station was for their personal use and was initially called just Berrington. I thought perhaps it was another condition that they had a loading facility for their carriages.

Herewith a photo of the station in c1905. This was supplied as a photocopy by the current occupant who found it in an old album of the old Vicar of Eye Church at the time. This shot is before the booking hall and waiting room was added and the early platform has not been raised but it has been extended beyond the bridge. Behind the station you can just make out some wagons which shows how close the siding was to the station building.

Berringtonandeye_c1905.jpg
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petermeyer
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Re: Berrington and Eye

Postby petermeyer » Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:16 pm

I have a explanation sort of, unsolicited, for the mystery building in the loading dock area from the current owner of the station building: "...in the picture, you can also see the black P.Way and staff building built where the goods platform was for the staff who maintained the small sleeper and tar store/depot that was here in the 60’s and 70s."

On this basis I can discount the building in the photo above but is still does not explain what was on the much earlier O/S maps in roughly the same location unless it was the same kind of arrangement.

Peter

petermeyer
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Re: Berrington and Eye 1912 (Herefordshire)

Postby petermeyer » Fri Oct 01, 2021 7:33 pm

With the prospect looming of reaching retirement age, I have resolved to locate the layout in the loft. Of course it was always designed to be in the loft hence the shape but building it up there was impractical. So the scenic side was built in various rooms in the house and currently is wedged into my workroom with a minimal fiddle yard only at one end.

So I drew a continuation of the layout up in Templot. The whole is on a transition curve and the new section will complete the 180 degrees. The remainder will be fiddle yard area. The limiting factor is the width. The loft is currently used as a dumping ground/storage area but measuring what is currently accessible means the restricted width will require for curves down to just under 4 feet. The minimum radius on the running lines on the main board is 5 feet. I won’t know finally until the area is cleared but the track plan in based on that.

extension.jpg

Prior to preparing the area, the issue now is will my stock negotiate these curves. So some items have moved up the build list to occupy me before I am ready to move the layout. First up is an LNWR Experiment 4-6-0. This will be the only 4-6-0 on the layout. The LNWR wisely banned the GWR 4-6-0’s from the North to West route so we won’t be seeing any of the clichéd GWR trains. The kit is from Brassmaster and is pre-cad being dated 1982! The first challenge is the undersize cutouts which were designed for the Maygib hornblocks.

IMG_0695.jpg

As can be seen, the chassis does have half-etch lines to increase the width to 6mm but the instructions confirm that the depth needs to be increased by 2mm. So that’s the start. If all goes well I might start a new workbench thread…
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Winander
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Re: Berrington and Eye 1912 (Herefordshire)

Postby Winander » Fri Oct 01, 2021 9:45 pm

Peter,

Sounds like my loft...and garage...

This may inform you with regard to gauge widening and axle sideplay https://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=96&t=5030.

Looking at your hornblock cutouts, if they are 4mm wide, they don't look 5mm high. The nominal size for a hornblock such as High Level's, is 7mm high by 6mm wide. A perfectly formed cutout is not essential but life is easier if all the top edges are aligned. High Level's standard (and spacesaver) hornblock is 9mm high by 8mm wide; they have a tab 1.5mm from the top which locates them vertically in the cutout - which means the bottom of the hornblock is 7.5mm (9-1.5) from the top of the cutout.

What suspension are you going to fit?
Richard Hodgson
Organiser Scalefour Virtual Group. Our meeting invitation is here.

petermeyer
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Re: Berrington and Eye 1912 (Herefordshire)

Postby petermeyer » Sat Oct 02, 2021 7:27 am

Richard,

Don't start me on the garage....

I've had a quick scan through Will's post on gauge widening you linked to and am happy with my current method. I still have some original S4Soc. literature that states that, although dimensions are defined to 2 decimal points, you don't have to worry as everything is done by gauges! So I have a couple of EM Gauge Society 3 point gauges that I used on the scenic part that exists. Plus I have some Studiolith roller gauges one of which has a shim that increases its width. I also have a mint gauge for checking. A combination of these has produced curves that the current fleet of locos seem OK with on the main lines.

In the yard it's a different matter; the minimum radius is down to 1000mm on the turnouts. As express locos won't be going in the yard, and indeed only one local goods train a day was timetabled to do any work there, over 90% of the trains will only run on the main lines which has 1 trailing point in the up direction and 2 in the down.

This leads onto suspension. As the layout is not complete I cannot fully evaluate the merits of springing or otherwise. I have 1 loco with a sprung Comet chassis which uses the Easichas method and this works very well. Quite a few of the others have all axles moving but the majority have a fixed axle and are amongst my best runners. The layout has developed an apex on the down line at a board joint. I don't know if I built this in or it is how the boards have settled in their temporary location but this seems to be the cause of most derailments at the moment. This is something I will get round to sorting when the layout gets moved and I have more space.

So the Experiment will have a fixed leading axle. One reason why this loco has moved up the list is because I have a suitable High Level gearbox (RR+) and motor combination available for it. A few 4-4-0 projects have stalled whilst I await a further order from High Level. I believe that the convention for the hornguide cutouts is for the upper limit to be set 4mm above the axle centre line. You may be able to see that I have scribed these lines on the chassis frames (insides) in the photo. My ability to measure, rule and cutout accurately are minimal at best so getting accuracy in this procedure is not something I am expecting! I do have High Level hornguides but for this I am planning on using some MJT detailed hornguides that provide for a fixed axle and this will allow all wheels to be removable. You can see that I have already drilled a hole for the beam pin between the rear 2 axles. I also have opened out the holes for the brake hanger supports so I can put tube in there as I plan to make the brakes removable too. Having just had to rebuild a chassis on my Beyer Goods I have come to a conclusion that this might be a good idea.

Before I did the first post above, I had already soldered the sides together and removed the material to produce the desired cutouts. I have a Hobby Holidays jig that I hope will help produce a reasonably accurate and reliable chassis. As I said before, I rely on jigs and gauges.

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jim s-w
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Re: Berrington and Eye 1912 (Herefordshire)

Postby jim s-w » Sat Oct 02, 2021 10:08 am

petermeyer wrote:Prior to preparing the area, the issue now is will my stock negotiate these curves.


Build your stock like Indy cars*, set up to turn left! :twisted: :twisted:


*super speedway versions anyway
Jim Smith-Wright

http://www.p4newstreet.com

Over thinking often leads to under doing!

petermeyer
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Re: Berrington and Eye 1912 (Herefordshire)

Postby petermeyer » Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:04 am

This is page 111 from the Appendix to the Working Time Tables January 1917 and illustrates the GWR loco roster that ran the passenger trains on the line. It does help to explain my build schedule for the layout. The GWR 4-6-0's were only allowed from WW1 so the largest in 1912 would have been the 38XX County 4-4-0's. I do have a Finney 3232 in the kit mountain:

Loco_Roster.jpg
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John Lewsey
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Re: Berrington and Eye 1912 (Herefordshire)

Postby John Lewsey » Sun Jun 04, 2023 10:17 am

Hi Peter, any updates on this
John

petermeyer
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Re: Berrington and Eye 1912 (Herefordshire)

Postby petermeyer » Mon Jun 05, 2023 9:32 pm

Well it's almost a year since the last update! I've been occupied with DIY at my daughter's new property amongst other things. This move has prompted another re-think on the layout location and a reshuffle of rooms. Currently the layout has been moved out of the workroom and back into the living room where the first boards were built. I have taken advantage of the fine weather to construct further baseboards outside and, as of today, have finally completed the full roundy baseboard wise:

IMG_1628.jpg


There are two new scenic sections at each end of the original three boards. This is the best I have captured by way of a plan from Templot but as can be seen the minimum radius is now down to 900mm (35"):

trackpad_snapshot.jpg

Despite the Templot ruler the finished layout measure 4m in length which is about the absolute limit for what I intend. There is room for a traverser style fiddleyard of 4 feet. Just a lot of track laying now to come.
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petermeyer
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Re: Berrington and Eye 1912 (Herefordshire)

Postby petermeyer » Mon Jun 05, 2023 9:40 pm

During the new construction, I've removed all the scenic elements from the layout for protection. I did take a couple of shots of the station building. Still very much work-in-progress:

IMG_1623.jpg


IMG_1624.jpg
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John Lewsey
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Re: Berrington and Eye 1912 (Herefordshire)

Postby John Lewsey » Wed Jun 07, 2023 9:09 pm

Hi Peter that really is looking good. I must admit that a circular layout :does appeal.
John

petermeyer
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Re: Berrington and Eye 1912 (Herefordshire)

Postby petermeyer » Sat Jun 10, 2023 9:20 am

John Lewsey wrote:Hi Peter that really is looking good. I must admit that a circular layout :does appeal.
John

The main appeal for me John is that I can have a large enough fiddleyard area to form reasonable length trains this being a main line. As an end-to-end I was limited to about 1 metre.

The other appeal is to be able to run-in locos on a continuous run. Still a lot to do before I can get to either stage.

petermeyer
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Re: Berrington and Eye 1912 (Herefordshire)

Postby petermeyer » Thu Jul 27, 2023 3:02 pm

When I first conceived of the layout, I didn't think about what I was going to do at the Southern (Hereford) end to finish it off so just left it.

This is the baseboard as was. The hole behind the bufferstop is for a signal:

IMG_1732.jpg


I can now extend the embankment onto the new board that I have built to produce the roundy, so today I hacked that corner off. Not pretty but it will tidy up:

IMG_1734b.jpg


I do like this view of the layout from the outside which is not one you get from the usual inside operating angle.

IMG_1733.jpg
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petermeyer
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Re: Berrington and Eye 1912 (Herefordshire)

Postby petermeyer » Thu Jul 27, 2023 4:03 pm

My Finney Duke negotiating the newly built track on 35" curve on my layout's extended baseboards:


petermeyer
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Re: Berrington and Eye 1912 (Herefordshire)

Postby petermeyer » Sun Jul 30, 2023 9:15 pm

A most satisfying thing in building a roundy is when you complete the baseboard circle and the whole thing mates perfectly. Of course this didn't happen to me - when putting the whole together, despite the planning, it was slightly out.

The reason was, on one of the curved scenic boards, I'd laid the roadbed with some risers and added some side panels to create the scenic profile. These were laminate of 2 x 6mm ply. I hadn't adequately braced the open-frame and the result was that the side panels were pulling it straight. This caused a twist in the board which was strong enough to twist the adjacent non-scenic board too, So luckily I managed to get the side-panels off and created a stop-gap solution that meant I could complete the circle as per the pic earlier.

Since then I have added considerable bracing to this board and re-instated the side-panels now cut to match the embankment shape from the previous board (the one I cut the corner off above!).

This layout has been built with cant on the mainline curves. So the new board will need to match the cant of the board it is to be attached to (which I built about 8 years ago). The maximum cant on the LNWR was 6". I achieved this by packing one side of the roadbed with 2 x 1mm ply sleepers. Not very scientific but it works. So here's a pic of the new board attached to the old one with the cant inducing sleepers glued in place and drying ready for the roadbed to be reinstalled.

IMG_1745.jpg
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petermeyer
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Re: Berrington and Eye 1912 (Herefordshire)

Postby petermeyer » Tue Aug 01, 2023 5:14 am

Here is the trackbed now reinstalled on the new board showing the desired matching cant:

IMG_1747.jpg


And here I have cut and split the cork underlay ready for gluing down. When cutting out, I chamfered the edges with a jigsaw to create the angle for the ballast edge:

IMG_1748.jpg


Track laying to follow
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petermeyer
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Re: Berrington and Eye

Postby petermeyer » Wed Aug 09, 2023 9:03 am

martinm wrote:
I don't think it's a cattle dock in the normal sense - it appears to have no 'rear' fence either and is separated from the yard by a gate. That might suggest that the cattle came in from the adjacent field? Or is that a wall?
The shed is away from the 'dock' fence, well away from the gate on its side.
Don't know if that helps?

regards,

martin


Update that shows your assumption correct:
I found this document in the LNWR Society Archive - now online. It is a survey of the line with notes marked up through to the 1960's. Not too clear on this screengrab, but there is a comment behind the dock that the Rt. Hon. F L Cowley had an easement of a gateway in fence for the sum of 2/6d pa. The Cowleys were the then owners of Berrington Hall and presumably the land adjacent the station was part of the estate. So my view that the dock was put there for the use of the estate is probably correct.

BandE_easement.jpg
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Noel
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Re: Berrington and Eye 1912 (Herefordshire)

Postby Noel » Wed Aug 09, 2023 11:35 am

The existence of the Easement, and the rent for it, shows that the gate is on railway land, which is to be expected since it has to be in the railway boundary fence, which must be there to comply with the legislation requiring UK railways to fence their property. There is nothing on the map to show that the estate has any special rights over the cattle dock. The map seems to show a ramp down into the goods yard, so I think that it's a public facility [which would be normal at a station in a cattle rearing area], and the gate has been provided simply to permit cattle from the field to reach it without having to go the long way round.
Regards
Noel

petermeyer
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Re: Berrington and Eye 1912 (Herefordshire)

Postby petermeyer » Sun Aug 13, 2023 7:38 am

The Templot trackplan has been stuck down on top of the cork on this new board plus the ply sleepers added. I have rivets at every 4th sleeper. I don't have a tool for this so every rivet has been closed with a centre punch and small hammer. The remaining sleepers have plastic chairs threaded onto the track.

The track is to LNWR spec so there is a 12" sleeper at the end of each 24 sleeper panel. All track on the layout has been built directly onto the Templot pages stuck down directly onto the baseboard. EVO-STIK wood glue PVA used throughout.

Soldering of actual track is well underway and the cork has been laid on the adjacent, non-scenic, board to help with alignment. It has been quite a challenge to align a new board and track with one that was built about 8 years ago. It's quite satisfying though being able to focus on just one board rather than a hole layout's worth in one go. You can just spot on the photo that this board has been wired!

IMG_1774.jpg
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