Wemyss Private Railway - Scott's Road - Allan Goodwillie

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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: Wemyss Private Railway - Scott's Road - Allan Goodwillie

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:06 am

:) Much of this work is done on the bench rather than with the layout up on its tall legs. :idea: It is much easier to work on it at bench top level and takes up less space in the workroom. I did a test on the first board to see what was required for a board to sit level. The level by the way was a very cheap one bought from B&M if I remember correctly. I discovered that all I needed to get the baseboard level was to put a small length of aluminium angle toward one end for things to sit properly. ;)

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Checking all is level on the work bench


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A piece of aluminium used to support the end. Simple to use and now just kept for the purpose - note it is wider than the framework, but that allows for turning and movement on the bench top. Shorter and it would be continually falling of on one side or the other.

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Re: Wemyss Private Railway - Scott's Road - Allan Goodwillie

Postby Philip Hall » Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:28 am

Allan,

I have only just spotted your post of 18 September, apologies for not responding. I can’t help with many further details of the East Suffolk Light, I’m afraid. I was only a very occasional operator and didn’t look much underneath. I do remember Iain writing that the frames had been built for him, I think from aluminium angle, and that there was a top surface of ply. I think the legs might have been aluminium as well but can’t be sure.

Philip

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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: Wemyss Private Railway - Scott's Road - Allan Goodwillie

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:44 am

:) Fitting the baseboard tops - I am experimentally fitting the baseboard tops in a number of different ways, just the ends,ends and sides, ends sides and attached to the supports. Whatever works best I should be able to make the permanent set up at a later date. One of the uses of machine screws is that it allows disassembly at any time - even after the entire layout has been built, so it will allow me to do this and make changes if necessary. For anyone wanting to experiment it is a good way to work.

One thing I wanted to do was to make ends which had a strip wood top and wooden support below so that long screws or pins could go right down from the rail ends into something more secure to resist any damage - I know that it is possible to buy an etch for securing pieces which we have tried out on Burntisland with mixed results, however I have used my own method on other layouts I have been involved in with some success, so have simply adopted this on the new layout. I am also experimenting with putting in a layer of foam (the type used by some as a replacement for cork just below at the board ends and securing the boards using long screws which fit down through opened out holes in the boards which will allow the boards to move and be adjustable in height if something goes wrong long term. The photographs will show this I hope. I am hoping that the foam may help in noise reduction as well as the foam board being used. Pieces of rubber are fitted to the screws before them being used to secure the board tops. :idea:

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The baseboard tops were cut to shape just using a Stanley knife , but later ones have just been sawn the same way as you would saw plywood. I have marked an area for the foam board to be removed and replaced with wood on the top layer and taken off completely underneath to allow for the foam to be fitted instead between the baseboard top and the end board.


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It would have been easier simply to wait to make up the baseboard tops and cut to shape and fit the wood at this stage rather than make them up at the beginning - but we are following what actually was done in a real life situation. I suppose I thought it would be easy to simply strip of the styrene layers, but this proved a little tricky when tackled as they were better stuck than I had thought (which is a good thing I suppose). the best method I have found is to take a chisel cutter and strip off the top layer of card and foam, but the bottom layer has to be roughed up a little - I used a wood file and took the final layer of card and glue away using a Surform cutter from my days carving sculptures from Sifrex at art college. Could have saved myself time though by cutting and glueing the foam to the boards at this time - I also had to take off the top material on the side gulley and drilled holes in the board there to allow for access to the machine screws underneath just in case I have the odd wing nut which will not release itself from the screw.


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The cleaned up edge prior to fitting the baseboard and the wooden strip edge. Still a little glue to take off when the photo was taken.

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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: Wemyss Private Railway - Scott's Road - Allan Goodwillie

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:56 am

:) The additional strip wood is now stuck on to the end of the board and the foam cut and added. I have not glued the foam in place rather I have put it under slight compression - it may eventually be replaced with a more permanent material - cork? if it does not do what I am hoping it will. - All very experimental - do not try this at home folks :!: :) This may all be changed once in service,or even before then, we shall see. :|

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The extra strip wood glued and pinned into place on the board end.


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The foam tacked lightly with a couple of dots of glue, but not firmly glued down.


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Double checking that the adjustments do not foul the end protectors in any way.

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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: Wemyss Private Railway - Scott's Road - Allan Goodwillie

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:59 am

Thanks Philip, :D

I can’t help with many further details of the East Suffolk Light, I’m afraid. I was only a very occasional operator and didn’t look much underneath. I do remember Iain writing that the frames had been built for him, I think from aluminium angle, and that there was a top surface of ply. I think the legs might have been aluminium as well but can’t be sure.


I appreciate your response and will ask Ian about it. I will be in contact with him soon anyway - it would be interesting to know. We did try out a leaning test when we were together for our first Starters group of the season - it was fine, so my techniques in construction are probably different from Ian's, but I would be interested to know just the same. :)

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Re: Wemyss Private Railway - Scott's Road - Allan Goodwillie

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:19 am

Just a brief post today, as much of my time is being used up with Burntisland over this next week. It needed moving and setting up Friday and I spent time yesterday repairing anything scenic that required it, which is one of my normal tasks.

The modelling time I have next week is also going towards the East Group as I am hoping to complete the blacksmith's workshop and I know it will take all my spare time to do that and none will be left for my own project, although I hope to take a couple of hours and set up all the boards just to make sure it is right before I start laying track.

Today Dave and I are going over to the West Group meeting as we are having a talk by Jim Summers and we have been looking forward to hearing Jim as he always has something interesting to contribute and I am sure we are in for an excellent afternoon. :thumb

So my small post today is just an image of the track plan taken from the OS map along with a few comments.

The model uses a couple of ideas I have used in previous layouts. The main one being to have two separate layouts in one :idea: which allows for independent moves on both and therefore more movement within the space - good for an exhibition layout, always something moving for the public. :)

In real life the line towards the top of the map was the ex-NBR line from Thornton to Methil. It did have a passenger service up to the mid-50's and also saw excursion traffic and football traffic. General goods traffic was mainly for East Wemyss, Buckhaven and Methil and material from and to the sawmill at Buckhaven. Coal trains worked on the branch as well, there being other collieries connected to branch line.

The Wemyss line came down behind the Wagon works on the right having crossed the branch line on a bridge and flowed down along the top line of the yard. The main line of the Wemyss system continued along the top most of the yard tracks and went on to a colliery on the left which it served. The bottom two tracks in the yard belonged to the National Coal Board and were used to hold empty wagons for the Michael Colliery whose line came in bottom right having come up a steep gradient. There was also a connection off this line in to the yard of Wemyss Castle station and to the landsale site, which is all assumed off, stage right. ;)

So briefly here is the map -

img011 (2).jpg

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Colin Parks
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Re: Wemyss Private Railway - Scott's Road - Allan Goodwillie

Postby Colin Parks » Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:52 pm

Hi Allan,

Have just read through both pages on the base board and support design and construction. It looks to be very innovative. Also quite laudable is that all materials are all recyclable and that the whole lot can be disassembled at any point. Having foamboard tops must make the resulting boards quite a bit lighter, so how much weight are you hoping to save by using these methods of construction?

All the best,

Colin

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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: Wemyss Private Railway - Scott's Road - Allan Goodwillie

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:57 pm

Hi Colin, :)

It has already become clear to me that the system is saving a fair bit of weight, with importantly, no loss of strength or stability.

The starters group are building a range of baseboards for themselves and I am hoping that we can weigh the various efforts. I am also comparing them to my original baseboards for Dubbieside which were fairly standard for the time they were constructed. They had wooden legs attached and frames of wood and 5 ply and cork tops. Cross bracing was at 2ft intervals. They have been excellent and long lasting without any sign of warping I think because all the wood which I used was well seasoned. (The plywood was basically good quality which had been cut for use as drawing boards when I was at Art College and the frames were made from a wood which was available back then which had no knots in it known as Jelutong (not sure if this is the correct spelling) As wood goes it resists distortion - good for stretchers for canvases. As a young man I was able to manage moving them without difficulty, but find them getting too heavy now to move around.

I will get back to you on this Colin once I have added scenery track and wiring. I am also keeping an eye on costs and will publish them for comparison as well as listing where materials have been bought, just in case anyone wants to use some of the ideas.

It is true this design is different from most in many respects and that is why I have already said that I am not expecting anyone to follow me, but I am trying to overcome for myself, many issues that travelling layouts have, by designing out some of the common problems. It also ties in with the articles that I have done for the News on my experimental layout Grayrigg.

Still playing around with my test piece and am afraid Burntisland is taking over this week as further scenic development is required and I am also hoping to complete the exterior of the Blacksmith's shop which I am constructing. :)

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Re: Wemyss Private Railway - Scott's Road - Allan Goodwillie

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:25 pm

Well it turned out that Burntisland took up two of my weeks in the end. I was working on some of the scenic areas on the new Engine shed section when the layout was up and at home I was working on the blacksmith's shop which will eventually sit along the front of the layout with the engine roundhouse dominating the whole scene in the background - Lindsay has put hours of work into the engine shed and it looks splendid. A truly impressive piece of modelling. :thumb

Many of the other buildings are taking shape and it looks as if the area may be finished on time for Southampton in January. I will not be going to Southampton as I have to get the Wemyss layout up and running by the Glasgow show in February - a lot to do in 3 months. There are still about 4 days worth of work needed on the blacksmith's shop - including the painting of it. A fairly massive building on its own, but rather boring - the interesting bit will be doing the interior.

So here are a couple of pictures to show how it is coming along, the intention is to have the inside visible using an opening side, but that will probably be for the following show - Railex in May :)

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Having spent three days so far adding paper chads to form the bricks on the tall chimney, I discovered on a visit to Harburn Hobbies that Bachman now do a boiler room chimney almost exactly the same size and with minimum effort I am sure I could have converted it! :o :cry: That's life :!:

I am now about a month behind what I was planning to be for Glasgow and it will be difficult making it up - I need to get the rest of my points built now.
Last edited by Allan Goodwillie on Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Wemyss Private Railway - Scott's Road - Allan Goodwillie

Postby allanferguson » Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:48 pm

Allan

I'd be interested to see how you managed the louvre ventilator. It looks enviably straight and tidy>

Allan F

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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: Wemyss Private Railway - Scott's Road - Allan Goodwillie

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:53 am

Hi Allan, :)

When I looked at the photographs it struck me that the easy way to get the look of the vents was to use lengths of steel rail soldered together with slight spaces in between. Once soldered, strips of hardwood were glued in behind using impact glue then the whole lot was glued to the other side using wooden spacers cut to shape The top is a length of Aluminium angle the correct size, glued on top - I wanted something that could take the occasional knock and not be damaged. The roof is clear plastic - the type used for pictures. I could post some construction pictures up if you feel it would be useful, this is a workbench thread after all. :)

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Re: Wemyss Private Railway - Scott's Road - Allan Goodwillie

Postby John Palmer » Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:37 pm

Allan Goodwillie wrote:The roof is clear plastic - the type used for pictures.
With strips of slates secured on top, I hope? Would hate to have to do another roof of this size with individual slates although that is my usual technique for slating and I think yields a very pleasing appearance. By clear plastic do you mean clear acrylic sheet susceptible to welding with acetone?

Allan Goodwillie wrote:I could post some construction pictures up if you feel it would be useful, this is a workbench thread after all. :)
Yes please! I am currently well advanced in construction of a 22" long terrace of eight dwellings and will probably find myself saddled with making three more buildings of much the same length, so techniques that deal with long buildings are of much interest.

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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: Wemyss Private Railway - Scott's Road - Allan Goodwillie

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:07 am

Hi Allan and John, :)

This is by no means the largest building I have built over the years. I am not sure if I took any photos when doing the louvres Allan, but it has not been permanently secured yet so I can take a couple of photographs to show construction - probably have to wait until the weekend.

John you are right it is clear acrylic sheet. It is useful making buildings with this stuff as it is easy to reproduce roof windows and windows generally in large buildings with many windows along the side. I have a large workshop building coming up (Wemyss wagon works) the construction of which I will be covering over the coming months.

About 25 years ago I built a miner's row for a layout based on Bonnybridge. The layout was only shown about 5 times in public. The miner's row was only on display once! I will look out some photos John. :D The Bonnybridge layout still exists but unfortunately, is in a state of limbo. :(

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Colin Parks
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Re: Wemyss Private Railway - Scott's Road - Allan Goodwillie

Postby Colin Parks » Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:59 pm

Hi Allan,

The blacksmith's shop is an impressive building! Judging by your work mat's dimensions, the structure must be about 550 mm long. With the length of aluminium angle running along the ridge of the roof, it certainly will not be liable to sagging. Is this the only large building the you are going to make for your forthcoming project?

All the best,

Colin

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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: Wemyss Private Railway - Scott's Road - Allan Goodwillie

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:33 pm

Hi Colin, :)

Sorry this blacksmith's shop is one I am building for the extension to our East of Scotland 4mm group's Burntisland layout. I spent two weeks working on it and adding some scenic work to the layout its self, and most of last week was spent helping other people, so nothing done to the Wemyss Layout although I am getting on with track making this week. The crowning glory of the Burntisland Layout will be the engine shed being built by Lindsay Galloway which is absolutely superb. I have to finish the blacksmith's, probably two days worth of work and probably another two to paint and weather. The interior will be a bit more interesting than the outside with all its forges and casting going on, but we are talking next spring before I need to do the work on the interior. It is intended that the buildings will open up to show the interiors one after another at shows.

I have built quite a few large buildings over the years, much bigger than this, including the hydraulic power station on Burntisland and, when I had the museum, a distillery on the extended Dubbieside as well as a copy of the goods shed at Bathgate which could take sixteen wagons.

In fact there is to be a wagon works on the Wemyss layout I am building that is about 4 ft in length, it also includes the engine shed as part of the set up. Again I plan to show the interior of the building using a different method all together. I hope to include a traverser and internal working sheerlegs as well as other working equipment.

This week I am also getting Grayrigg serviced for the winter so that I can have some sessions and access for the starters group for running in new engines over the winter. I have a busy workbench. :)

This is a workbench thread and therefore reflects what goes on almost on a weekly basis. :) Since the track making follows what I have been doing with the West Scotland Group I might just show the track being laid, but will not go in to a blow by blow as the system I use can be found elsewhere. However I might put up some of the techniques used to build the blacksmith's as I have had a few people ask me about that over the next couple of weeks - quite a few of the starters group are building buildings for the layout and some of the info might help add a bit of inspiration to get on with them, although good progress is being made and I think the buildings will all be in place by the time the layout comes down to Southampton in January.

Unfortunately I will not be down there myself as I am trying to get the Wemyss layout on as far as possible for the Glasgow show. It is going as a work in progress, but I do want it to show a good range of interesting and unusual approaches to building a layout. :)

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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: Wemyss Private Railway - Scott's Road - Allan Goodwillie

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:13 pm

Unfortunately, :cry: resting my foot this evening and not working on the track - however earlier today I managed to get one or two track jigs assembled for work tomorrow. I hope I will be back on my feet within a day or two. So it will allow me to pass on one or two techniques that I have used in the building of the blacksmith's shop.

So over the next hour I will try to show some of the techniques used. Unfortunately I cannot find any photographs of the first stages of the building. :( The building is made from thin MDF, the type used for backing picture frames. It is 3mm thick, the building is marked out and the windows and doors marked then cut out using a Stanley knife and a cutting mat. A second layer of this time 1mm ply is glued to the MDF and again the windows are cut from the ply this time. Fairly soon after this I apply a coating of white glue to seal the surfaces front and back. Lindsay had decided that we should all use Pollyfilla for the next stage which uses the material as a coating which can be scored to represent stone.

Normally I would have used Das as it is much easier to work, however it has worked OK although I found that it must have a higher water content as the ply took on a bit of a curve and the MDF followed- not something you want in a long building! However clamping and leaving overnight to fully dry did overcome the problem.

My normal technique would have been to cut sides from the plastic and then use the MDF on the inside with the windows cut and possibly polyboard on the outside and scribing that using a pencil or the ply with Das on it /scribe and varnish before painting. The technique means that the glazing is already done, it just requires glazing bars.

In this case the windows had ecclesiastical style frames with multiple glass panels and the use of filler mesh (the type used on car repairs and made from aluminium was dictated.) I had to make two sets in the end the first set I was unhappy with as I cut them all to size and after painting, I filled them all with "clear glaze" and set them up at a slight angle to dry.

Unfortunately two things happened.The first was that the "Clear Glaze" retreated to sit only in sections completely surrounded by the aluminium so that the edges looked ragged. The second was that although the angle was slight the "clear glaze" collected at the bottom edge of each window and when looked through it distorted the light. The distortion was obvious only after the windows had been fitted.

I made a second set by filling a large piece of the mesh with Marven Medium (a type of PVA used by artists) which dried clear and with the mesh held horizontally this time all was even when dried and when dried it could be cut and and of course was glazed up to the edges. All this was much of a time waster as there are I think 22 windows in the building!

Lindsay had kindly cut all the window frames using a scan and cut machine using thin plasticard. These were painted first and then the cut sections removed ready for fitting in the window areas. The ones for the roof lights were painted and laid aside for adding to the roof. I must say they have made a very nice job although one or two of the horizontal astricals have expanded after fitting, so not perfect I am afraid.

The sides and ends were completed and scored in this way to represent stone. By this time I had decided I would return to my normal methods and cut out pieces of clear glazing for the roof. - I do have photographs of the rest of the construction. :thumb

My sore foot now making itself felt :shock: and I am going to have to give up and go to bed after taking a few pills........to be continued.

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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: Wemyss Private Railway - Scott's Road - Allan Goodwillie

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:12 pm

Having gradually recovered from a heavy cold and a sore foot which has eventually come right with a bit of rest and pain killers, I have been able this week to do some work at my bench and what I have been concentrating on has been making my points for the new railway. Nothing spectacular in this particular location, in fact mainly Y points which many colliery and other industrial lines preferred as they take up less space without tightening up the curvature too much and being short are easily moved or replaced. Y points also allowed

Track on the Wemyss system was kept in fairly good order compared to the track belonging to the NCB latterly although it had all been Wemyss system originally I will not go into any detail on the history here as it is not entirely relevant. The BR tracks running past both were of a better quality again and were ballasted with heavier ballast - I will be looking at that when I come to do the ballasting. Just for now here are the points completed up to the end of the week. The bottom point sis still stuck to its jig and there is one on the opposite side and hand on the other side of the jig. The points have been made using the jigs etc. I used for the West of Scotland 4mm Group's track making course and which will be used again for the West Lothian Starters Group and can be found here - https://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=5474

So on to finishing a couple of gradients on the East end of the layout tomorrow and finishing top surfaces with cork, then starting to lay track and making plain track in situ. - later on in the week. I hope to have the majority of points in place and ready for servos etc.by the end of the week, but I will be down at Birmingham NEC for the big show next weekend with John Stocks and some of the West Scotland 4mm group - so if anyone is going along pop in and say hi! :D

The eagle eyed will notice that not all the points are soldered throughout - but all the key areas are and nothing will be done to the chairing until I am sure it all operates 100%. There will be more photographs as track gets laid. I may spend some time putting some MERG kits together just to try them out before fitting, May even decide to fit them as I go along - a job for the evenings perhaps.

DSC02722.JPG
Each piece of track is slightly different due to sleeper replacement etc. So although done to certain patterns reflects more the way the track was after a number of years in situ.

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Colin Parks
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Re: Wemyss Private Railway - Scott's Road - Allan Goodwillie

Postby Colin Parks » Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:37 pm

Hi Allan,

Those points look rather quirky! Did you base the timbering arrangements on prototype information or is this in a generic industrial style? I shall be very interested to see what methods you use for ballasting your track.

All the best,

Colin

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Re: Wemyss Private Railway - Scott's Road - Allan Goodwillie

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Thu Nov 23, 2017 3:03 pm

HI Colin, :)

I have been going by a number of photographs of the area and what was used. Most of the track had been put in by the Wemyss company originally and repaired as parts gave way. Most of the points have been replaced completely at some time in their career and may have been internally keyed originally however going by the date I am working to there appears to have been only one point still that way by then (late 50's early 60's) The majority of points are Y's and there are variations of interlaced and fully timbered as is also true of the other points. I have had to alter the handing of a couple of points as I have had to straighten out the east curve to allow me to keep to standard boards. There are also slight changes across the width of the layout to accommodate the Buckhaven branch which runs independently through the scene.

It is true that the track is quite quirky and the part belonging to the NCB particularly so. It will be a couple of weeks before I can post much as I have a lot on. It is not that I will not be doing anything to the layout, it is just going to be a little time before there is anything to really show. :)

Here's a wee taster just to be getting on with, the loco is one of the small Barclay tanks used in the area alongside Scott's Road Signal box and the large torpedo tanks that were there for watering the locomotives without going down to the depot.

DSC02731.JPG

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Colin Parks
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Re: Wemyss Private Railway - Scott's Road - Allan Goodwillie

Postby Colin Parks » Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:38 pm

Hi Allan,

The layout is looking good already!

Colin

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Re: Wemyss Private Railway - Scott's Road - Allan Goodwillie

Postby Le Corbusier » Fri Nov 24, 2017 2:36 pm

Allan Goodwillie wrote:HI Colin, :)

Here's a wee taster just to be getting on with, the loco is one of the small Barclay tanks used in the area alongside Scott's Road Signal box and the large torpedo tanks that were there for watering the locomotives without going down to the depot.

DSC02731.JPG


Alan,

I am really liking that wagon ... looks wonderful sitting in front of the buildings :thumb

Tim
Tim Lee

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Re: Wemyss Private Railway - Scott's Road - Allan Goodwillie

Postby steve howe » Fri Nov 24, 2017 7:00 pm

Interesting project Allan,

I do like those torpedo water tanks and have seen them on several industrial layouts. Did you scratchbuild them or does anyone do a suitable kit?

Steve

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Re: Wemyss Private Railway - Scott's Road - Allan Goodwillie

Postby Armchair Modeller » Fri Nov 24, 2017 7:18 pm

I like it all. Great attention to detail! :thumb

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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: Wemyss Private Railway - Scott's Road - Allan Goodwillie

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:31 pm

Hi Steve, :)

I do like those torpedo water tanks and have seen them on several industrial layouts. Did you scratch build them or does anyone do a suitable kit?

Steve


The torpedo tanks are copied directly from the prototype and completely scratch built. I made up drawings working from photographs before building them. I will dig out some photos of them under construction, one problem was what to do about the ball torpedo ends - the solution came from the toy store. The Wemyss system had a number of torpedo tanks in different locations. I should have a photo of all the bits previous to painting. I built a couple of the ships on Burntisland - the passenger steamer and the Victorian dredger and you would not believe what they are made of, but they look correct. It is not necessary to build everything from brass or nickel silver you know and many parts for Burntisland were built under pressure for various exhibitions and short cuts taken to get them built. :D

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Re: Wemyss Private Railway - Scott's Road - Allan Goodwillie

Postby Terry Bendall » Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:31 am

Allan Goodwillie wrote: It is not necessary to build everything from brass or nickel silver


A very true statement and with a little bit of imagination and effort it is surprising what can be achieved. Allan is just one of many masters of this sort of approach. Not everything has to be made by laser cutting or 3D printing.

Terry Bendall


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