First steps in P4- now on my second loco

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charliemiller77
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Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:58 pm

Re: First steps in P4- now on my second loco

Postby charliemiller77 » Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:01 am

A first rate achievement.
I know how much effort you have put in and how many things have had to be scratchbuilt or amended to get this loco built.
Looks ready for a hard day’s work shunting coal.
(Mine is not far behind !)

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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: First steps in P4- now on my second loco

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:12 am

HI Pete, :)
A very characterful loco.All the extra work on the pipework etc. has really paid off and other details that have been added.Crews are quite often a problem with certain locos, most of the common types being a shade too big, I have seen me shaving off various parts just for them to fit! Hope it gives you many hours of running pleasure. Nice build and hope to see Charlie's one finished some time in the future.

Allan :thumb

charliemiller77
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Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:58 pm

Re: First steps in P4- now on my second loco

Postby charliemiller77 » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:34 am

This is mine almost ready to paint. The chimney is vertical in real life but looks off in the photo. I’ve gone for the lower sets of buffers as I’ll no doubt be moving a lot of NER hoppers around.
Must say a big thank you to Peter for indulging me on his post and everyone who made made helpful comments along the way , also to David for the superb sandbox fillers tops.
It’s a shame this years Newcastle show is cancelled or maybe it could have had a guest run on Scott Road. ?
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pete_mcfarlane
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Re: First steps in P4- now on my second loco

Postby pete_mcfarlane » Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:49 pm

That looks lovely.

I know what you mean about the chimney, I also had a few moments where I thought mine was wonky even though it wasn't.

Daddyman
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Re: First steps in P4- now on my second loco

Postby Daddyman » Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:19 pm

Both locos look very nice, but they're marred slightly by the overscale smokebox door handles. I'd recommend making your own as they can be much finer. The principle should be clear from the photo below. I used tube as it's easier to drill, especially if you nick it with a triangular file. I can't remember what size tube I used (0.6, 0.8 or 0.9) but if Dave Bradwell is along soon he might be able to tell us the correct dia.
20171013_212151.jpg


Here's the finished article. The tube can be filled at the end depending on the prototype.
20180204_175656.jpg
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pete_mcfarlane
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Re: First steps in P4- now on my second loco

Postby pete_mcfarlane » Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:27 pm

I'd not thought to do that - I'll give it a try on the next loco I build.

charliemiller77
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Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:58 pm

Re: First steps in P4- now on my second loco

Postby charliemiller77 » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:28 pm

You are right of course.
I was just being a little lazy and “hoped” the one in the kit would look ok.
So here’s the result of an hours work.
The tube is 1mm / 0.6 mm the flange is 2mm.
Handles 0.7 tapered slightly in Dremel : in for a penny. !
Much better.
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Daddyman
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Re: First steps in P4- now on my second loco

Postby Daddyman » Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:46 am

Well done Charlie!
I have a memory of measuring the J36 at Bo'ness and think the centre "stem" was 3 inches - but I may be wrong. Measuring a few models last night I've tended to do 0.9 with 0.4 for the handles. Hornby's J36 is 0.97 with 0.5 handles. Be nice if anyone could confirm what the dimensions should be.
You're right about the taper of course, though it's not present on all classes - doesn't seem to be a North British, North Eastern or LNER standard thing.

davebradwell
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Re: First steps in P4- now on my second loco

Postby davebradwell » Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:58 am

Who, what.....

I just happen to have drg of V1/3 smokebox handles - the rear boss is 2 1/2" and front 1 5/8" diameters. Lengths 2" and 1 3/8" with 1/4" washer between. Rear handle is 1 1/8" dia at top and 1 1/2" at lower rounded end and set vertical. Front handle is the tricky one at 3/4" dia at top and 1" at end leaning forward 1 1/2". Both arms 10" long measured to c/l. Thread is 1" BSW.

I turn all of this tiny stuff from 4mm bar easily obtainable from B&Q here and it goes in a collet for safety. Set taper on top slide and produce over length handle in one cut with diameter reducing towards the headstock. Drill hole in boss and push handle in until it stops. Solder and trim - yes, it will inevitably be slightly fat.

GAs generally show tapered handles but shed fitters weren't about to mess around when repairs were required and seemed to just weld in a piece of bar.

Yes, Charlie, the first handles did let it down (very nice job, anyway) but I'm more convinced the chimney is vertical now your latest photo shows it leaning the other way.

DaveB

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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: First steps in P4- now on my second loco

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:04 pm

Good to see the other engine developing. :)

Very nice touches and it is the little things which can make the difference to how you yourself view your models, it is nice to go just that little bit extra, even if others do not necessarily appreciate it. There will also be someone who will tell you you have made a mistake sometimes when you have gone the extra mile. The comment about alterations being made on the real thing is so true. At Methil in Fife there was a small congregation of locomotives all running around with various parts including chimneys taken from other classes of locomotive. The Caley locomotive I have built for Scott's Road has a wagon buffer fitted on its front left, exactly when it was fitted I have yet to find out, it was also unusual being of foreign design, so curious - I have no doubt that someone will tell me off for getting a Caley locomotive wrong. When I had my museum in Melrose I had a wagon which had been put together in a bit of a hurry and had one complete side on upside down! I had planned on rectifying it, but for a bit of fun put it on the layout to see who would notice first amongst the public and friends that came along. In 3years no-one had noticed!

Chimneys did not always fit on correctly and completely upright either, or domes for that matter if something had to be adjusted, several A4's ran around latterly without their dome covers on - never seen one modelled that way. Strikes me that the streamline casing was slightly different in each case as small differences made individual engines stand out at a distance, or am I the only one who noticed this?

I would be very pleased to see either loco perform some day on Scott's road. I am hoping that the Buckhaven branch may see a few foreign locos run in future years, as well, that would be nice.

Dave is lucky having a B&Q local to him, I assume in Inverness, we have lost our Livingston one some time ago.

All good stuff :thumb
Allan

Daddyman
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Re: First steps in P4- now on my second loco

Postby Daddyman » Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:24 pm

Allan Goodwillie wrote: several A4's ran around latterly without their dome covers on - never seen one modelled that way. Strikes me that the streamline casing was slightly different in each case as small differences made individual engines stand out at a distance, or am I the only one who noticed this?


I did it on my model of 60027 (and the missing mudhole covers and yellow stripe too); I photographed Number 7 in the shed at Grosmont when it had its dome cover removed. It was a tricky job on the model as the hole is (for obvious reasons ) smaller than the cover, and needs a series of bolt holes drilling around it; the plastic also needs thinning around the edge of the hole so that it doesn't look like ....well, plastic.

Re streamline casing, in its later days Number 19 had a distinctive kink in the LHS where the casing was coming away, and a scorch or oil mark where it stepped out round the firebox.

Dave - thanks for the dimensions!

charliemiller77
Posts: 57
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:58 pm

Re: First steps in P4- now on my second loco

Postby charliemiller77 » Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:48 pm

[quote="pete_mcfarlane”] The last big challenge was the windows, as the cab is quite open so sticking bits of clear plastic wasn't going to look good. I ended up using some 'Glue and glaze' dragged across the openings. This dries clear, but isn't optically flat. but it will do. . .

Sorry it’s been a while since you wrote that Peter . .
I have been experimenting with cutting Evergreen 10 thou clear styrene to glaze the portholes. To get the size I laid the nickel silver hoop on the styrene and applied a hot soldering iron carefully. It leaves a nice impression which can then be cut with tipsnips and filed . I had hoped I could just melt it fully in but that didn’t work. I hope a bit of varnish will hold them securely in place.
I plan to have my windows in the open position.
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Daddyman
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Re: First steps in P4- now on my second loco

Postby Daddyman » Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:51 pm

Ambis Engineering do some laser-cut clear plastic discs for spectacle lenses. Note sure they'll have the right size but might be worth a look.

Daddyman
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Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2017 1:09 pm

Re: First steps in P4- now on my second loco

Postby Daddyman » Thu Dec 09, 2021 1:05 pm

The Holy Grail of Kitson views (third photo down):
https://tanfield-railway.blogspot.com/2 ... tanks.html


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