First steps in P4- now on my second loco

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charliemiller77
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Re: First steps in P4- now on my second loco

Postby charliemiller77 » Sun May 10, 2020 8:32 am

David, I see from your great detail photos that the sandbox fillers are a complicated shape with a bearing for the operating rod to go through. Is it the same for the front boxes also? If that’s the case I’m going to have to remake mine as I just fabricated a round lid.
Casting would be a good solution ( even better would have been correct ones in the kit!)
I see from this months NER Express you are quite capable of making these cast in resin. Would you consider supplying any to the other builders??
Sorry if this is going off topic . .

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Will L
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Re: First steps in P4- now on my second loco

Postby Will L » Sun May 10, 2020 9:59 am

pete_mcfarlane wrote:...Looking at the photo alerted me to the odd bit of wonkiness in the rods, which has been sorted...

Blow up photos are cruel in this respect so perhaps we should all be doing more of it to improve the breed.

Daddyman
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Re: First steps in P4- now on my second loco

Postby Daddyman » Sun May 10, 2020 10:42 am

charliemiller77 wrote:David, I see from your great detail photos that the sandbox fillers are a complicated shape with a bearing for the operating rod to go through. Is it the same for the front boxes also? If that’s the case I’m going to have to remake mine as I just fabricated a round lid.
Casting would be a good solution ( even better would have been correct ones in the kit!)
I see from this months NER Express you are quite capable of making these cast in resin. Would you consider supplying any to the other builders??
Sorry if this is going off topic . .



Hello Charlie,
Nice to hear someone actually reads my articles in the Express!

I've spent a couple of hours (sic.) this morning making a master. It scales at about 5.3mm by 3-point-tiny and has about six bolts in it, plus hinges. It's setting in the airing cupboard at the moment, and then I'll have to see how it moulds, and then how it casts. Happy to supply to you (and others) if it works out - but that's by no means a foregone conclusion. I agree that the correct ones in the kit would have helped!

I didn't realise I hadn't posted photos of the front sandboxes, sorry. Here are some.
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charliemiller77
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Re: First steps in P4- now on my second loco

Postby charliemiller77 » Sun May 10, 2020 11:09 am

I hope your casting works out. ! My sandboxes approx 5.8 x 4.5 mm and sketches of the tank top items from your photos, and others. A couple of aborted attempts at the injectors. I think I’ll be able to use the valve I made that goes alongside the chimney. It’s quite distinctive. What is it for ?
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Daddyman
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Re: First steps in P4- now on my second loco

Postby Daddyman » Sun May 10, 2020 12:11 pm

Those injectors look neat. Here's my attempt (the wheel has come off the RH end - this has been in storage for a while), with the lid master (hard to see as it's all white):

20200510_125748_resized.jpg


The lid can't be 4.5 wide as the front boxes themselves only stand 12" out from the smokebox front. Here's the master in place, with my simplified attempt from a couple of years ago for comparison:

20200510_130451_resized.jpg


Incidentally, I started this in my 00 days (I have another one to build in P4) - hence the alterations to the splasher position visible in this photo: the kit provides replacement frames and rods, but not a replacement footplate, but it would look awful with the splasher out of line with the wheels, even by half a mill.

Isn't the thing by the chimney just a whistle?
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charliemiller77
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Re: First steps in P4- now on my second loco

Postby charliemiller77 » Sun May 10, 2020 1:02 pm

I feel guilty that we have hijacked Peter’s post but hopefully these are relevant details !
The valve by the chimney has at least two small wheels on it. There are similar looking items on NER locos eg A , B1, C in ex works grey photos in K Hoole’s book. Also in traffic see p 92 NER record 3.
Those parts you have made are all looking very good.

Daddyman
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Re: First steps in P4- now on my second loco

Postby Daddyman » Sun May 10, 2020 1:22 pm

charliemiller77 wrote:I feel guilty that we have hijacked Peter’s post but hopefully these are relevant details !
The valve by the chimney has at least two small wheels on it. There are similar looking items on NER locos eg A , B1, C in ex works grey photos in K Hoole’s book. Also in traffic see p 92 NER record 3.
Those parts you have made are all looking very good.


I hope Pete's OK with it.

You're right about the valve:

Kitson capture.PNG
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pete_mcfarlane
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Re: First steps in P4- now on my second loco

Postby pete_mcfarlane » Sun May 10, 2020 1:29 pm

charliemiller77 wrote:I feel guilty that we have hijacked Peter’s post but hopefully these are relevant details !

Please keep going. All this extra information (and pictures of other people's builds) are really useful.

Will L wrote:
pete_mcfarlane wrote:...Looking at the photo alerted me to the odd bit of wonkiness in the rods, which has been sorted...

Blow up photos are cruel in this respect so perhaps we should all be doing more of it to improve the breed.

I think it was Donald Boreham (in his Narrow Gauge modelling book) who suggested putting models aside for a couple of days, and then coming back and immediately spotting the things that weren't quite straight and you'd somehow not noticed before. I guess taking a photo is similar.

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Neil Smith
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Re: First steps in P4- now on my second loco

Postby Neil Smith » Sun May 10, 2020 1:35 pm

I may be completely wrong, but that looks like a displacement lubricator carrying oil for the valve chest and/or cylinders.

A 12" to the foot scale loco I know rather well, Furness Railway Number 20, has something very similar, albeit mounted on the front of the valve chest, but the idea of the smokebox top location is that the heat will help lower the viscosity of the oil. They work by filling with oil and then sealing to the outside (the top valve) and then opening the other valve which admits live steam, and which carries a bit of oil on to the part needing it, whilst depositing some condensed water - in other words they slowly drain of oil and fill up with water.

When 20 was first returned to service in 1999 the only lubrication to the cylinders and valve chest were the tallow cocks on the front of each cylinder (which could only be pre-loaded, as it were, while stationary). It was found that the valves needed some steam oil too, so a displacement lubricator was added to the plate on the front of the valve chest. The Furness Railway also found need to carry out this modification on those members of this class it kept for more than 7 years, but put the lubricators on top of the smokebox, just behind the chimney, just like the Kitson. (And by further looping of the stories, FR20's second life after being sold was at the Barrow steelworks which also had at least two Kitson pannier tanks although these did not have the much dicussed front sand boxes - see https://rcts.zenfolio.com/industrial-an ... #ha0fcf5fc ... )

Hope this helps.

All the best

Neil

Daddyman
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Re: First steps in P4- now on my second loco

Postby Daddyman » Sun May 10, 2020 2:13 pm

Neil Smith wrote:I may be completely wrong, but that looks like a displacement lubricator carrying oil for the valve chest and/or cylinders.



That makes sense, Neil, as in the photo Charlie mentions in Record 3, the device is in the same position (smokebox waist) as lubricators often were on NER locos.

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pete_mcfarlane
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Re: First steps in P4- now on my second loco

Postby pete_mcfarlane » Sat May 16, 2020 9:22 pm

The boiler top pipework is all done, after a week of evenings spent making it out of wire and various diameters of tube. The body is now in the ultrasonic cleaner for a good scrub.
20200516_220740.jpg

that should be the last of the soldering. Next step is to add the boiler fittings. Sandboxes are being fashioned from plastic, as I'm going to add them after painting. And then there the sandbox fillers to have fun with.
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charliemiller77
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Re: First steps in P4- now on my second loco

Postby charliemiller77 » Sat May 16, 2020 9:42 pm

The pipework, injectors and clack valves certainly add a lot of character. I’m on with them too and , yes , they takes ages.
Looking good and worth the effort.

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pete_mcfarlane
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Re: First steps in P4- now on my second loco

Postby pete_mcfarlane » Sun May 17, 2020 10:46 am

charliemiller77 wrote:The pipework, injectors and clack valves certainly add a lot of character. I’m on with them too and , yes , they takes ages.
Looking good and worth the effort.

I found that I ended up doing one component per evening, just to keep sane.

I forgot to mention that the little 2mm handwheels on the injectors are from a Mainly Trains backhead detailing etch - I think you can still get these from Wizard. They were a pain to solder in place (luckily there are loads on the etch, for when they ping off into the carpet). I plan to coat them with Copydex before painting to avoid clogging them up with paint.

charliemiller77
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Re: First steps in P4- now on my second loco

Postby charliemiller77 » Sun May 17, 2020 11:11 am

Yes , I bought some years ago as you can see. I will get more I think as they are so useful. Probably a lot more than a pound now but worth it.
I’ve just noticed it says solder wheels together for a more realistic thickness! I don’t think that’s needed and would clog everything up.
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Lindsay G
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Re: First steps in P4- now on my second loco

Postby Lindsay G » Sun May 17, 2020 11:50 am

Lovely looking fittings, guys. I've got a number to tackle in the not too distant future and am not really looking forward to the prospect. However, when they're done they're can be nice to admire, hard to believe that those in the last post are not commercially available castings.

Lindsay

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Winander
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Re: First steps in P4- now on my second loco

Postby Winander » Sun May 17, 2020 1:33 pm

charliemiller77 wrote:Probably a lot more than a pound now but worth it.


Still a pound, I got some about a month ago.
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pete_mcfarlane
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Re: First steps in P4- now on my second loco

Postby pete_mcfarlane » Sun May 17, 2020 5:46 pm

charliemiller77 wrote:Yes , I bought some years ago as you can see. I will get more I think as they are so useful. Probably a lot more than a pound now but worth it.
I’ve just noticed it says solder wheels together for a more realistic thickness! I don’t think that’s needed and would clog everything up.

Your injectors are a lot nicer than mine, which are a bit more of a vague representation.

I used a slightly different etch, which is sold as a loco detailing fret (and is a bit more than £1): https://www.wizardmodels.ltd/shop/locomotive/mt227/

charliemiller77
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Re: First steps in P4- now on my second loco

Postby charliemiller77 » Sun May 17, 2020 7:06 pm

Your injectors look like they are correct layout. A bit out of focus. Mine are oversized but I’m just using tubes and copper wire.
I like that etch of hand wheels etc you used. There are a lot of 4 spoke ones which are needed for this job.
Today I managed to get one side finished although not soldered in place. I’ll keep them loose til after painting. I intend lining the cab front !
Mad.
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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: First steps in P4- now on my second loco

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sun May 17, 2020 7:31 pm

HI both :)
The work on the injectors is well worth the effort and the fact they are in a such a prominent place makes it even more so.
Coming on great!

Allan :)

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pete_mcfarlane
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Re: First steps in P4- now on my second loco

Postby pete_mcfarlane » Wed May 27, 2020 9:04 pm

I've finished all of the detailing on my Kitson over the last week or so. This took longer than expected, mainly because I got distracted by other things (such as going outside, now we're allowed to drive to the countryside for walks again). Boiler fitting are from the kit, and the tank fillers are domed brass disks. I wimped out of making the screw fittings that lock them shut.

This is it before a good clean in the Ultrasonic cleaner (followed by fishing out the bits that weren't properly soldered in place and reattaching them).
a20200526_204603.jpg

Special thanks to David for providing a set of his resin sandbox fillers - you can just make out one of them in the 'bunker' in front of the cab. The front sandboxes will be added after painting.

I decided to replace the resin backhead with a plasticard one, with details from wire, tube and the Mainly Trains etch that provided the handwheels. It's a bit basic but should look the part. The upward projecting pipe goes through the cab roof to the whistle.
a20200526_215246.jpg

I've already painted the crew - these two are from Aidan Campbell.
a20200514_120959.jpg

And lastly a shot after giving the body a a couple of spraya of Halfords rattle can etch primer. When this has hardened tomorrow I'll rub down and fill any rough bits (and refix the safety valve arm - I must have glued it back wonky after it came off in the cleaner). The dome in particular will need a bit of work - the primer has revealed a few small blowholes and areas of pitting.
a20200527_162146.jpg
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charliemiller77
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Re: First steps in P4- now on my second loco

Postby charliemiller77 » Thu May 28, 2020 2:13 pm

That’s a great deal of progress, I have had less success as I decided my injectors etc were too bulky so I’ve remade them ! Three weeks of off-on modelling spent on them !
Looking like you are almost done. What livery will it have ?
Will you be stripping paint from the injectors and pipework or did you maskol it?

Daddyman
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Re: First steps in P4- now on my second loco

Postby Daddyman » Thu May 28, 2020 4:21 pm

Well done Pete (and Charlie for undoing and redoing!). The dome is totally the wrong shape for the 1960s locos. Not sure what the solution is there. The tank fillers hadn't even occurred to me - I was so fixated on the injectors and the sanding gear that I hadn't seen them! Nice (and necessary) backhead. I simply beefed mine up with some 80 thou behind, but you're right - it needs to be restarted from scratch. I see you've done some washout plugs too.

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pete_mcfarlane
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Re: First steps in P4- now on my second loco

Postby pete_mcfarlane » Thu May 28, 2020 5:18 pm

Mine is going to be in a freelance lined black livery, to match the Barclay I previously did.

I'd not spotted that the kit chimney was different, so having got this far I probably leave as it is (and play the freelance livery card). This slightly blurry photo might show a similar design of dome (but plenty of other detail differences from the kit, and the surviving loco).

https://www.irsociety.co.uk/Archives/17 ... ilered.htm

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pete_mcfarlane
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Re: First steps in P4- now on my second loco

Postby pete_mcfarlane » Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:33 pm

The Judith Edge Kitson 0-6-0PT is now finished. After sayingthat I'd live with the flattened top to the dome, I ended up putting a blob of milliput int he top and sanding to the correct shape. It looks OK, and

It was sprayed with Humbrol black, and lined with a bowpen (using German Afrika Corps yellow, as I had a fresh tin to hand and it seemed like a nice colour for lining). The difficult bits, like the front sandboxes were done by lining transfer sheet, and applying that. Varnish was Ronseal plus some Precision matting agent. I'm slowly getting the hang of airbrushing and lining pens.

Fitting the crew into the cab was a bit of a challenge, as there's a big pile of coal in one corner (with a board on the fireman's side of the cab to retain it) and they were a bit bulky (being of the slightly overscale tradition of model soldiers, rather than 3D scanned real people). In the end, the fireman is hanging out of the cab smoking his fag, and the driver's hand ended up not on the regulator but in front of the cab window - so he's gained a scrap of newpaper in his hand and is cleaning his window. the front lamp and various small details were from Modelu - there's a bucket of tools and a spare shovel in the cab. These from the Industrail loco fittings set.
20200704_173529.jpg

Nameplates and worksplates from Narrow Planet. The last big challenge was the windows, as the cab is quite open so sticking bits of clear plastic wasn't going to look good. I ended up using some 'Glue and glaze' dragged across the openings. This dries clear, but isn't optically flat. but it will do.
20200706_151340.jpg
20200706_151346.jpg
20200706_151353.jpg
20200706_151415.jpg


And lastly one with its sister loco - the Barclay. I just need to build a small industrial layout to run them on.
20200706_151507.jpg
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Le Corbusier
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Re: First steps in P4- now on my second loco

Postby Le Corbusier » Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:29 am

very nice :thumb
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