First steps in P4- now on my second loco

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pete_mcfarlane
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First steps in P4- now on my second loco

Postby pete_mcfarlane » Sun Jun 05, 2016 9:51 pm

Late last year I got an invite from Ken Kirk to join the Nottingham Area group of the Society, which I took up. I'd been a member of the society for a few years without really having done anything in P4, so it' seemed like a good idea to actually build something in P4!

My long term plan is to model bit of the Southern railway/region roughly between 1930 and 1970, so having built up a fair amount of stock it seemed like a good idea to do something different for my P4 adventure, rather than try to re-gauge all that stock. The latest edition of Scalfour News even suggests that OO modellers should do just that, so I must be on to something.

So for my first attempt I decided to go back in time to pre-grouping days, and have a go at a Chatham Kits LCDR 4 plank wagon. Starting with a wagon seemed sensible, as I've built about 200 in OO over the last two decades.....

This turned out to be quite a cleverly designed kit, with a combination of a cast body, etched floor and a casting for the underframe members. All quite straightforward and built as per the instructions, apart from replacing the etched brake block with a beefier looking plasticard one and using some Guy Rixon's 3D printed buffers from Shapeways. I'm not sure if these are quite right for a LCDR vehicle, but they look nearly correct and made springing the buffers a lot easier than using the slightly undernourished ones that came with the kit.

Wheels from Exactoscale, painting was with Valejo acrylics, using a suitable mid-grey for the body colour, and finished with Fox transfers. All in all it's rather a nice little wagon.
100_9285.JPG
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Next up is a Bill Bedford LNWR One Plank, more details once that's complete.
Last edited by pete_mcfarlane on Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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iak
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Re: First steps in P4- some pre-grouping wagons

Postby iak » Mon Jun 06, 2016 7:39 am

Tasty looking beast Pete.
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Knuckles
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Re: First steps in P4- some pre-grouping wagons

Postby Knuckles » Mon Jun 06, 2016 2:43 pm

Looking great. Hoping to see more updates.

I'm also a wagon building fan. :)
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Craig Warton
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Re: First steps in P4- some pre-grouping wagons

Postby Craig Warton » Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:44 am

Pete,

As another one of the wagon tragics, all I can do is welcome you to our gathering place. That aside, it is certainly a very impressive first up post - so keep up the good work.

Regards,

Craig W

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Flymo748
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Re: First steps in P4- some pre-grouping wagons

Postby Flymo748 » Tue Jun 14, 2016 6:27 am

A little bit late, but just to say that looks very nice indeed...

Keep up the pre-Grouping stuff. It's lovely to see the variety of rolling stock being built.

Cheers
Flymo
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pete_mcfarlane
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Re: First steps in P4- some pre-grouping wagons

Postby pete_mcfarlane » Sun Jul 10, 2016 3:07 pm

A bit more progress - I'm part way through two more wagons.
100_9870.JPG

On the Left is a Bill Bedford LNWR one-plank wagon. This is my first sprung wagon, and my first go at a resin bodied wagon. It turned out to be pretty straightforward, although I deviated from my normal approach of building then painting, by getting the body to a completed state before fitting the sprung underframe (as I guessed that spraying the sprung axleguards after assembly would gunge them up). The numberplates were knocked up on the PC and printed on a laser printer.

On the right is a David Geen LSWR van. I've built a few of these before in OO (I'm doing the meat van in OO at the same time as this), and I can never quite get them square so resort to using a MJT inside bearing compensation unit at one end. It's not yet fitted, in case you were wondering why it looks a bit lop sided. Again it's a pretty straightforward kit.

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Andy W
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Re: First steps in P4- some pre-grouping wagons

Postby Andy W » Sun Jul 10, 2016 3:48 pm

Nice work Pete. You say you printed the plates yourself. How did you get the white to print?
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pete_mcfarlane
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Re: First steps in P4- some pre-grouping wagons

Postby pete_mcfarlane » Sun Jul 10, 2016 4:33 pm

I didn't need to print the white - I printed the plates on to bog standard white A4 using the office laser printer, and then cut them out using a scalpel. I printed multiple copies, to allow me to make a mess cutting the first a few out.

The plate then got sprayed with Tamiya matt varnish along with the rest of the wagon - which seems to do the job OK as I accidentally left the body out in the rain with no ill effects.

I've attached the file I printed out. The original was done using Inkscape.
LNW wagon plate.pdf
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pete_mcfarlane
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Re: First steps in P4- some pre-grouping wagons

Postby pete_mcfarlane » Sat Oct 08, 2016 10:01 am

I realised that I'd not updated this for 3 months. Despite that, I have been making some progress.

The Bill Bedford LNWR wagon is now finished. A nice straightforward little kit.
100_0208.JPG

I've also nearly finished the David Geen LSWR van - it just needs couplings. Painted using Precision LSWR/SR brown and lettered using the LSWR transfers off the HMRS sheets of Southern wagon lettering. I have several of these from doing dozens of Southern liveried wagons down the years, so now I've found a use for some. I've up ended it to show the inside bearing compensation unit.
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[attachment=761343:100_0209.JPG][attachment=761344:100_0210.JPG]
The latest wagon is another from Chatham kits - this time a dumb buffered PO. This was slightly more tricky - the brake gear was designed for a longer wheelbase than the solebars, which I only discovered when I came to fit it. After some careful surgery (separate it in to 3 sections and glue back together again) the shoes now fit. I also replaced the brake lever (in the singular - none of this modern nonsense of a lever either side!) with some etched parts off a Mainly Trains fret I'd had for years. Another nice kit, except for the brake gear.
100_0211.JPG

I also need some track to run these things on! C&L had a special offer on P4 point kits over the summer, so I bought one (an A5) to try out. This is the result of a couple of hours work during Thursday's NAG meeting.
100_0207.JPG

It's pretty straightforward, but a lot more time consuming than my previous attempts at building copperclad track.My only real issue was getting my head around the slightly too complicated system for numbering the components - the template uses one scheme, the sprues of parts another, and there's a little key printed at the bottom of the template to do the translation. I also deviated fromt he instructions in two ways - I've firmly stuck the bases down to the bit of MDF using double sided tape rather than blutak (I don't trust blutak not to move) and I'm going top build the thing using a set of track gauges. The instructions say that you can rely on the moulded pips to do the gauge alignment, which may be true but doesn't 'feel' right.

There's also now a High Level Barclay 0-6-0T in the to do pile, once I've got a suitable test track.

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Mark Tatlow
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Re: First steps in P4- some pre-grouping wagons

Postby Mark Tatlow » Sat Oct 08, 2016 1:54 pm

Pete,

Looking at the underside of the LSWR van shows that you have a lot of paint on the wheel treads. This will not assist running and will make the track dirty very quickly - a visit with s scalpel blade and glass fibre brush is recommended!

Also, on the turnout, I have tended to find that there is a tendancy for the switch to be made a bit tight to gauge with the Exactoscale (and most other gauges). This happens because the switch is obviously not supported in chairs for much of its length and as a result it flexes outwards a tad when the gauge is inserted. It then springs back when the gauge is removed, giving the tightness.

If you have the Exactoscale gauges, they have some that incorporate gauge widening, use these to set the switch out - either with the one that is +0.1mm or even +0.2mm (with one and two bands on respectively) and this issue will not occur. There is no problem with a small amount of over gauging except through the crossing; under gauging is a different matter!



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pete_mcfarlane
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Re: First steps in P4- some pre-grouping wagons

Postby pete_mcfarlane » Sat Oct 08, 2016 6:41 pm

Mark,

Thanks for reminding me that I'd not got the paint off the wheels. That's one of the side effects of building the whitemetal wagon with them in place. They've now been cleaned.

There's a reference in the instructions to making sure that the gauge is no less than 18.83mm, which now makes sense, and I'd not twigged the point about the rails moving when a gauge is inserted. Up to now my main worry had been parts moving because the solvent hadn't fully set, so progress has been a bit slow. I've not go the Exactoscale gauges - in fact I can't see any reference to them on the C&L website, so I suspect they're no longer available. Instead I have the Gibson ones sold by the society stores - hopefully I'll be able to manage with these

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RobM
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Re: First steps in P4- some pre-grouping wagons

Postby RobM » Sun Oct 09, 2016 6:18 am

pete_mcfarlane wrote:I've not go the Exactoscale gauges - in fact I can't see any reference to them on the C&L website, so I suspect they're no longer available.


Pete, they are at http://www.finescale.org.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=346_384_385 …E4XX TG01….
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Terry Bendall
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Re: First steps in P4- some pre-grouping wagons

Postby Terry Bendall » Sun Oct 09, 2016 8:05 am

pete_mcfarlane wrote:My only real issue was getting my head around the slightly too complicated system for numbering the components -


I assume you mean the numbering of the chairs. If this is the case then I agree. It took me a bit of time to work out the system but once you do, there is a logic to it. The problem of course is that in order to keep the costs down the sprue has chairs for several different sixes of turnout on it so you get left with lots of unused parts. I keep these for use as spares and they will come in handy when I build some play and rivet turnouts for a new project.

pete_mcfarlane wrote: I've firmly stuck the bases down to the bit of MDF using double sided tape


I do the same and for the same reasons. I also fix the sleeper bases with double sided tape on top of the template to keep things in place. According to the instructions you don't need to do this but I find it helps and it is something of a hangover from building turnouts with ply and rivets.

pete_mcfarlane wrote: I'm going top build the thing using a set of track gauges.


I do the same. As Mark has said the gauge is tight and using track gauges whilst the adhesive does off helps.

Terry Bendall

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pete_mcfarlane
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Re: First steps in P4- some pre-grouping wagons

Postby pete_mcfarlane » Sun Oct 09, 2016 9:55 am


Thanks - the C&L website isn't the easiest to navigate. I'll invest in a set.

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pete_mcfarlane
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Re: First steps in P4- some pre-grouping wagons

Postby pete_mcfarlane » Sun Oct 09, 2016 10:00 am

Terry Bendall wrote:I assume you mean the numbering of the chairs. If this is the case then I agree. It took me a bit of time to work out the system but once you do, there is a logic to it.

Yes, it was the chair numbering that had me initially confused, although I've now got my head around it. As you say, there's a logic to it and it takes a while to understand.

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Re: First steps in P4- some pre-grouping wagons

Postby Albert Hall » Sun Oct 09, 2016 12:53 pm

[/quote] Thanks - the C&L website isn't the easiest to navigate. I'll invest in a set.[/quote]

I don't disagree but now that C+L is up for sale the situation is unlikely to change in the near future. There may be a delay in dealing with orders this week as one of our number is getting hitched on Tuesday when there is unlikely to be anyone there. For the rest of the week we are running with a skeleton staff, although anyone who has visited would probably say that none of us look like skeletons! I will have a look in the morning to make sure we have the gauges you need.

Roy

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pete_mcfarlane
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Re: First steps in P4- some pre-grouping wagons

Postby pete_mcfarlane » Sun Feb 19, 2017 11:37 pm

Here's the Chatham kits PO wagon, shown ready for painting back in October. Several months later and it's finished in a fictitious private owner livery. Lettering is mostly from ones of the sheets of individual letters sold by Modelmasters which I'd had in my box of transfers for years. It was slightly tricky getting it to fit over the cast strapping detail (which I suspect is probably over-scale anyway). I'm rather pleased with the end result.

100_0462.JPG

The point is also pretty much done, bar fitting a suitable tie bar. I also have a few lengths of C&L track, so I can put together a short test track to test these out on.

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Guy Rixon
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Re: First steps in P4- some pre-grouping wagons

Postby Guy Rixon » Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:05 am

I think the lettering came out very well. if Modelmasters still do those letters I might get some.

How did you find the castings for that kit? I built one, and would like to build similar wagons, but my copy of the kit was so badly cast around the dumb buffers I'm reluctant to get another.

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pete_mcfarlane
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Re: First steps in P4- some pre-grouping wagons

Postby pete_mcfarlane » Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:57 am

The kit went together reasonably well. It wasn't the greatest whitemetal wagon I've ever built, but it all went together with a bit of filing. I seem to remember the etched floor being either too wide or too long, and needing a bit of filing down. The castings were OK.

The biggest problem was the brake gear, which was for a slightly longer wheelbase vehicle. I ended up cutting mine in to 3 pieces and reassembling, not being able to track down a suitable replacement (IIRC the wagon is 8'6" wheelbase). I'd certainly build another one.

As for the lettering, Modelmaster still seem to do it: http://www.modelmasterdecals.com/Wagons_PO_DIY.php

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pete_mcfarlane
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Re: First steps in P4- some pre-grouping wagons

Postby pete_mcfarlane » Sun Feb 26, 2017 4:57 pm

I'm hoping to start on this in the next week or so - I'm being good, and trying to finish off a few other models first before starting on another.
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It's a High Level kit for a Barclay 0-6-0T of the kind used on the Waterside system in Ayrshire amongst other places. Some of these lasted until the late 1970s and at least one ended up painted in a bizarre livery of blue with a yellow cab and bunker. Mine will be modelled much earlier than this, and as a fictional example (livery still to be decided on).

I've used a couple of High Level gearboxes in previous loco builds and been pretty impressed with how well they went together, so I'm looking forward to trying one of his kits. I've built quite a few loco kits in OO, but this will be my first attempt in P4, not to mention having to tackle a few things I've not tried before (a compensated chassis, outside cylinders and rolling a boiler from a flat etch). I deliberately picked a High Level kit for my first go as they've got a pretty good reputation, so I'm hoping this should be fairly straightforward if a bit time consuming. I'll keep everyone posted with my progress.

essdee
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Re: First steps in P4- moving on to my first P4 loco

Postby essdee » Sun Feb 26, 2017 7:54 pm

Pete,

All I can say is .....enjoy!

Follow Chris's thorough and explicit instructions and assemble the parts.....it will be a delight; not quick, but superbly accurate.

Then buy another High Level Kit.......

All best,

Steve

PS. The fact that I worked at Dunaskin/Waterside 1989-94 and even had 'hands-on' with the ex Polkemmet blue/yellow machine of ARPG, and that Waterside No. 17 is my favourite industrial 0-6-0T - have nowt to do with the above opinion. What with Alan G.'s lovely scratchbuilt Wemyss trio, and now this thread, I am weakening in resisting No. 17 for myself........

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Re: First steps in P4- moving on to my first P4 loco

Postby Julian Roberts » Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:25 am

I have to agree with Steve! You've made a great choice Pete. The only problem is that Chris doesn't do a kit for everything I want to build! Just a week ago completed mine in time for Model Rail Scotland having started it 11 months previously - my fastest build so far, because while it's detailed and complex it is also utterly thought out so there is no time wasted fooling about trying to make impossible things work.

The paint job was aiming for the blue-black of photos I have seen, although I don't know if that is really correct for the 1950's. It was done in too much of a rush with just two days to go and the result is too thickly painted and still a little too blue, but it earned its keep on the new colliery exchange sidings of the club layout.

This is meant to be Steve's No 17 though I hesitate to admit it as it is way below his standards! The front footsteps are in a rather quirky position as per this particular example of the prototype at least in any photo I have seen, though originally they were in front of the slide bars - asking for trouble in P4 I would say...
20170227_170816.jpg
Numbering etc will be done after a repaint!


Hope that is of some help re some of the issues you mention. Have fun!

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pete_mcfarlane
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Re: First steps in P4- moving on to my first P4 loco

Postby pete_mcfarlane » Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:20 am

That's rather nice. I'll also bear in mind the comments about the footsteps in front of the slide bars (one of the benefits of building industrials as your own freelance example).

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pete_mcfarlane
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Re: First steps in P4- moving on to my first P4 loco

Postby pete_mcfarlane » Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:33 pm

A bit of a progress update. I've managed a few odd evenings work on the Barclay, although progress has been interrupted by a few distractions like this....
100_0485.JPG

It's an Airfix 1:72 Harrier GR.3. It's the first Airfix kit I've built for about 20 years, and they've changed a bit. Everything fits perfectly (presumably due to the use of CAD/CAM to design and make the moulds)and there are masses of transfers. The only downside is that Humbrol paint is now rubbish - luckily I was able to reuse some of my stash of old paint from my teenage plastic kit building days!

Anyway, I won''t bore everyone with a bow by blow report of the Barclay build, but I've got this far.
100_0484.JPG

So far, everything fits pretty well. The only real problem was some damage to the cab front due to the use of half etching making this really thin, combined with my fat fingers. So it was carefully straightened out and some reinforcing strips soldered to the rear where they won't show.

I also struggled to align the second side sheet with the first, solved by soldering a bit of scrap etch temporarily to the read of the footplate and using that to line things up.
100_0480.JPG


having worried about rolling the boiler, that was a doddle. I bought some GW models rolllers about 4/5 years back, and have used them intermittently. But they are incredibly useful when I do use them.
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So the task I was dreading took about 3 minutes and half a dozen passes through the rollers, using the screws to bring the rollers closer together with each pass. The trickiest bit was getting the top roller off to get the boiler out. Suddenly there are loads of etched loco kits within my ability range! At that point I lost the front boiler former, so ended up making a disk of nickle silver to replace it. 2 steps forward and one step back.

And lastly, after seeing one of these at NAG the other week I've obtained a Poppy's loco builder box to help assemble the compensated chassis. I've not used it in anger yet, but it went together with no fuss at all.
100_0478.JPG
100_0486.JPG

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Flymo748
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Re: First steps in P4- moving on to my first P4 loco

Postby Flymo748 » Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:43 am

pete_mcfarlane wrote:I also struggled to align the second side sheet with the first, solved by soldering a bit of scrap etch temporarily to the read of the footplate and using that to line things up.


A neat trick, nicely executed. It's being able to come up with little things like this which can make seemingly impossible tasks suddenly simple. I'll aim to remember that one and keep it in my toolbox for future use.

pete_mcfarlane wrote:having worried about rolling the boiler, that was a doddle. I bought some GW models rolllers about 4/5 years back, and have used them intermittently. But they are incredibly useful when I do use them.
100_0481.JPG100_0482.JPG
So the task I was dreading took about 3 minutes and half a dozen passes through the rollers, using the screws to bring the rollers closer together with each pass. The trickiest bit was getting the top roller off to get the boiler out. Suddenly there are loads of etched loco kits within my ability range!


Indeed. I can't emphasise enough to people how having the proper tool for the job just makes it so easy. Don't forget the rolling bars will probably make the forming of the cab roof really simple as well...

Nice progress. I look forward to seeing more in future.

Cheers
Flymo
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