Newtonmoor Works - NER O Class (LNER G5) Under Construction

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Winander
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Re: Newtonmoor Works - A grand title for a first workbench thread!

Postby Winander » Sat Sep 24, 2022 11:35 pm

47331xosIM wrote:I am assuming these slide upwards into the cutouts on the frames/bogie frames.


Yes, the things in the bag are axleboxes/bearings. They will slide in the hornguides that you need to fold up. First you need to establish which is the inside surface of the frames. I wouldn't "clean" anything at this stage - I assume by clean he means remove the etching cusp (if you don't know what that is, tell us). You will easily be able to access the parts you may need to fettle/clean after you have done the folding and soldering. What you need to avoid at this stage is getting the axleboxes/bearing too loose in the hornguides - so avoid doing anything other than carefully removing only the tag connecting parts to the sheet. Don't worry if the axleboxes don't fit at this stage, they are usually fitted to and kept in the same hornguide. The instructions you quote don't give me that impression.

Plunger pickups are 'old tech' and deemed to cause too much drag, often don't pick up that well and can interfere with suspension. We don't have conventions - you are free to try whatever you fancy but I doubt many would recommend them.

As it is nickel silver you will only get one chance at bending it (brass is a little more forgiving). If you make a mistake, don't bend it back because it will break, just try to gently persuade it into place. I assume you have a square so use that to line up the hornguide vertically with the frame.

You are doing exactly the right thing by reading the instructions, making sure you are clear about what needs doing before you try it and asking here if you're not sure. (Maybe I should take a lesson from you!).
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petermeyer
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Re: Newtonmoor Works - A grand title for a first workbench thread!

Postby petermeyer » Sun Sep 25, 2022 8:54 am

Winander wrote:First you need to establish which is the inside surface of the frames.


The ashpan looks half etched with rivets along the bottom so that is the outside. The hornguides fold up 180 degrees the otherway and soldered to the inside.

As the hornguides are built in, you don't really need a jig to set this up. However it might be useful to use it to check the wheelbase matches the coupling rods before you put the wheels on but with the bearing in. (if you happen to break a hornguide off don't panic, the jig would help in soldering it back on in the right place)

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Re: Newtonmoor Works - A grand title for a first workbench thread!

Postby davebradwell » Sun Sep 25, 2022 10:14 am

The devil is in the detail - number each axlebox on an edge that will always be the bottom and scribe a corresponding number on the inside of the frame by each cut-out. It's essential that it's all assembled the same way each time.

It seems the frame cutout defines the axlebox position and the "hornguide" just stops it rotating. Before folding up the hornguide, check the outside of the axlebox fits in it. The slot in the frame will need careful filing to a good fit on the axlebox within the slot. You could actually do it the other way round and get a good fit on the outside - this would be better but require more skill. I would have expected the instructions to have offered more help here.

No point in worrying about accurately matching axlebox and coupling rod centres yet as with this type of construction, the John Brighton method will take care of this at the end by adjusting the rods. In this case much easier than fighting the kit and trying to set the wheelbase. Perhaps instructions will do better here.

Does anyone know the origin of the kit?

DaveB

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Re: Newtonmoor Works - A grand title for a first workbench thread!

Postby petermeyer » Sun Sep 25, 2022 10:57 am

davebradwell wrote:
Does anyone know the origin of the kit?

DaveB


As per the etch and my previous post it’s a George Norton kit dated 1991

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Winander
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Re: Newtonmoor Works - A grand title for a first workbench thread!

Postby Winander » Sun Sep 25, 2022 11:20 am

davebradwell wrote:Before folding up the hornguide, check the outside of the axlebox fits in it.

I got a bit confused by this, so will state the obvious. Check the outside of the axlebox fits in the cutout in the frames. After you have folded and soldered the hornguide it will be difficult to adjust the size of the cutout and you don't really want to mess with the axlebox. It might be worth checking for burrs on the axlebox that might interfere with its movement.
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Re: Newtonmoor Works - A grand title for a first workbench thread!

Postby petermeyer » Sun Sep 25, 2022 12:11 pm

Winander wrote:
davebradwell wrote:Before folding up the hornguide, check the outside of the axlebox fits in it.

I got a bit confused by this, so will state the obvious. Check the outside of the axlebox fits in the cutout in the frames. After you have folded and soldered the hornguide it will be difficult to adjust the size of the cutout and you don't really want to mess with the axlebox. It might be worth checking for burrs on the axlebox that might interfere with its movement.


Yes I was confused by that too. By axlebox I presume we mean bearing? Once the bearings are matched to the cutouts they need to be marked up. I use permanent markers; Red, Green, Blue, Black in that order. Red is the front leading axle which matches the wiring convention. Black is the left leading ditto. The order is easy to remember: RGB- Black which is the colour spectrum of a computer screen plus black. In old-school printing black was a separate colour. You can mark the frames too but this may get lost in the cleaning and defluxing.

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Re: Newtonmoor Works - A grand title for a first workbench thread!

Postby petermeyer » Sun Sep 25, 2022 12:16 pm

All the above applies to the bogie too which uses the same bearings (2mm).

Part 11 would appear to be the springs that retain the bearings in their slots. Before fitting these and permanently fixing the bearings it would be wise to ensure the gearbox fits between the left and right bearings between the frames. With a Slimline gearbox this should not be a problem.

47331xosIM
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Re: Newtonmoor Works - A grand title for a first workbench thread!

Postby 47331xosIM » Sun Sep 25, 2022 8:44 pm

As ever, thanks for all the comments and feedback.

Winander wrote:Plunger pickups are 'old tech' and deemed to cause too much drag, often don't pick up that well and can interfere with suspension. We don't have conventions - you are free to try whatever you fancy but I doubt many would recommend them.


Ah I hadn't considered how the suspension of the wheels could affect it. Do I assume from that that wiper pickups are therefore a better option? I did do a search for pickups on this forum and came up with https://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4210 which seemed to be a good and resilient form of pick-ups, especially given this is a tank that will run backwards as much as forwards. Also the top of the drivers are hidden by splashers which should hide the wipers.

I am not trying to get ahead of myself, but I know the instructions say motor, gears, wheels and pick-ups are required, so just planning ahead!

Thanks for the other comments you've made too - I may even try and get on to the Virtual Zoom which if I have worked it out right, the next on is Thursday? As Thursday is my day off, dare I say I may try and have an hour or two to get the kit started, and then possibly have my lack of progress(!) to show!

petermeyer wrote:The ashpan looks half etched with rivets along the bottom so that is the outside. The hornguides fold up 180 degrees the otherway and soldered to the inside.


I assume the rivets being half etched need stamping out in somewhat? I had thought of getting a GW Models rivets press, but would prefer to get a full kit under my wing and know I can (and want to) attempt more before spending too much extra outlay. I presume there are simpler ways of punching rivets out??

davebradwell wrote:The devil is in the detail - number each axlebox on an edge that will always be the bottom and scribe a corresponding number on the inside of the frame by each cut-out. It's essential that it's all assembled the same way each time.

It seems the frame cutout defines the axlebox position and the "hornguide" just stops it rotating. Before folding up the hornguide, check the outside of the axlebox fits in it. The slot in the frame will need careful filing to a good fit on the axlebox within the slot. You could actually do it the other way round and get a good fit on the outside - this would be better but require more skill. I would have expected the instructions to have offered more help here.


Thanks Dave (I like the other idea from Richard about colour coding too, but for me I suspect 1-2-3-4 numbered from the smokebox end back is possibly simpler to understand and remember. I presume the axle box should slide up and down easily but have no side-to-side movement? Hence your comment about stopping rotating?

petermeyer wrote:All the above applies to the bogie too which uses the same bearings (2mm).
Part 11 would appear to be the springs that retain the bearings in their slots. Before fitting these and permanently fixing the bearings it would be wise to ensure the gearbox fits between the left and right bearings between the frames. With a Slimline gearbox this should not be a problem.


Thanks Peter, thats a useful thought, I am going with a HLK slimline gear box, but haven't ordered it yet, so I'll look to do that this week (with the motor) and then its here and I can build it up ready for when its needed.

Cheers all
Rich

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Re: Newtonmoor Works - A grand title for a first workbench thread!

Postby petermeyer » Mon Sep 26, 2022 4:51 am

47331xosIM wrote:I assume the rivets being half etched need stamping out in somewhat?


No you're ok; the rivets on the ashpan have already been created in the etching process. You might want to clean that area up with a fibreglass pencil.

Which motor are you using with the slimline gearbox?

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Re: Newtonmoor Works - A grand title for a first workbench thread!

Postby 47331xosIM » Mon Sep 26, 2022 7:35 am

petermeyer wrote:Which motor are you using with the slimline gearbox?


Thanks Peter. My plan was a HLK supplied coreless, but I need to work out which one will fit!
Rich

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Re: Newtonmoor Works - A grand title for a first workbench thread!

Postby davebradwell » Mon Sep 26, 2022 9:34 am

Can't see why you would want a slimline gearbox in P4 - anything should fit but why not wait until you have frames assembled and axleboxes in so you can see the space and any frame stretchers to dodge. What's this HLK gearbox - are you proposing not using a High Level? I've found a High Level Roadrunner+ fits in just about everything and has plastic gears for silence.

This brings us to the delicate question of ratio where I repeatedly appeal to folk to keep it reasonable. Around 40:1 is plenty and with this and a decent controller your loco should be able to take several minutes to get from one sleeper to the next. How slow do you want to go? You're building a passenger loco and it should be able to take a trip along the main without having the motor whine prominent.

More detail - when you're done, it's important that the chassis can be dismantled. It'll have the odd bind at first and you'll have to take it to bits a few times to track this down. Trapping the axleboxes in their guides is therefore a bad idea and the dummy springs should be fitted to a plate that can be removed easily. This is one of the few departures from design that is desirable otherwise you have to keep taking wheels off axles and they get looser each time and the quartering will be different. This plate can conveniently carry other stuff.

Oops, yes, slot in frames is to clear outside of axlebox. My intended point was that once you've soldered the plate you can't file the edge of the larger cutout.

Explore pick-ups a bit more - Dave Holt's thread, for instance. Can't see why you would want to risk shorts by sharing splasher space. I believe pick-ups should act horizontally.

Coming back to the beginning and the frame profile - put frames together at some stage and check that with the hornguides lined up the tops are the same height on both. This will be a datum so you can keep track of twist. I've known a kit where one frame was considerably higher than the other. It's worth also checking that other features correspond accurately because it's hand-drawn and there will be variations.

I will throw-in that it is standard workshop practice to deburr parts, that is very lightly chamfer the corners and this applies especially around the frame slots, hornguide plates and particularly axleboxes and their grooves. A sharp corner is easily damaged and the resulting tiny burr can gum up the works. You should twizzle a larger drill in both ends of the bearing hole to break the corner. Carefully done, this procedure will make the whole thing work smoother. Suggest fine file or even back of modelling knife.

Enough thinking - it's time to end the speculation and get the files and soldering iron out.

DaveB

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Will L
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Re: Newtonmoor Works - A grand title for a first workbench thread!

Postby Will L » Mon Sep 26, 2022 12:02 pm

davebradwell wrote:Can't see why you would want a slimline gearbox in P4 - anything should fit but why not wait until you have frames assembled and axleboxes in so you can see the space and any frame stretchers to dodge.

Depends on your suspension system, bulky twin beams or CSB do reduce the available space and the full width Highlevel boxes may not go in. Ive struggled with this in the past. The slimline boxes solve this problem. I've always been surprised quite how wide the original Highlevel boxes are, there being no functional reason they need be that wide as they are. And I build P4 chassis so I do wonder how 00 modellers manage. But then, these designs predate CSBs and I suspect the later introduction of slimline designs are the result.
...More detail - when you're done, it's important that the chassis can be dismantled. It'll have the odd bind at first and you'll have to take it to bits a few times to track this down.

Very good advise, it may seem a complication but as soon as you start get problems with a chassis, being able to drop the wheel out saves lots of aggro.

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Re: Newtonmoor Works - A grand title for a first workbench thread!

Postby 47331xosIM » Mon Sep 26, 2022 2:34 pm

davebradwell wrote:Can't see why you would want a slimline gearbox in P4 - anything should fit but why not wait until you have frames assembled and axleboxes in so you can see the space and any frame stretchers to dodge. What's this HLK gearbox - are you proposing not using a High Level? I've found a High Level Roadrunner+ fits in just about everything and has plastic gears for silence.

Hi Dave, yes sorry me confusing things HLK is High Level Kits! The Slimline is the gear box that John at London Road Model suggested when I asked him which High Level Kits gearbox was recommended. But there looks to be minimal difference in width of the gearbox frames looking at their website.

davebradwell wrote:This brings us to the delicate question of ratio where I repeatedly appeal to folk to keep it reasonable. Around 40:1 is plenty and with this and a decent controller your loco should be able to take several minutes to get from one sleeper to the next. How slow do you want to go? You're building a passenger loco and it should be able to take a trip along the main without having the motor whine prominent.

Agree entirely. My plan was a 45:1 ratio - as that is the middle of the three High Level Kits do.

davebradwell wrote:More detail - when you're done, it's important that the chassis can be dismantled. It'll have the odd bind at first and you'll have to take it to bits a few times to track this down. Trapping the axleboxes in their guides is therefore a bad idea and the dummy springs should be fitted to a plate that can be removed easily. This is one of the few departures from design that is desirable otherwise you have to keep taking wheels off axles and they get looser each time and the quartering will be different. This plate can conveniently carry other stuff.


Will L wrote:
...More detail - when you're done, it's important that the chassis can be dismantled. It'll have the odd bind at first and you'll have to take it to bits a few times to track this down.

Very good advise, it may seem a complication but as soon as you start get problems with a chassis, being able to drop the wheel out saves lots of aggro.


Thats useful to know, I hadn't thought that far ahead but I'll bear that in mind, as it certainly sounds logical.

davebradwell wrote:Explore pick-ups a bit more - Dave Holt's thread, for instance. Can't see why you would want to risk shorts by sharing splasher space. I believe pick-ups should act horizontally.

Noted. I'll explore a bit further. I have never had anything to do with pickups before, so its all totally new territory.

davebradwell wrote:I will throw-in that it is standard workshop practice to deburr parts, that is very lightly chamfer the corners and this applies especially around the frame slots, hornguide plates and particularly axleboxes and their grooves. A sharp corner is easily damaged and the resulting tiny burr can gum up the works. You should twizzle a larger drill in both ends of the bearing hole to break the corner. Carefully done, this procedure will make the whole thing work smoother. Suggest fine file or even back of modelling knife.

Again useful to know, I knew about the idea of a drill to the bearing hole, but again thanks!

Yup, my plan is to get started on Thursday - my day off! If I can get the first two or three steps (ie 1.1-1.3) completed I'll be happy. I am in no rush, and just want to make sure it get it to a good standard. Not after exhibition standard, but want to get as close as possible.

Right back to work now!

Rich
Last edited by 47331xosIM on Mon Sep 26, 2022 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Winander
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Re: Newtonmoor Works - A grand title for a first workbench thread!

Postby Winander » Mon Sep 26, 2022 3:06 pm

47331xosIM wrote: may even try and get on to the Virtual Zoom which if I have worked it out right, the next on is Thursday

They are held fortnightly on a Wednesday the next one is a week on Wednesday 5th October. It is extremely useful to be able to discuss things "face to face", I know it has helped me tremendously. You can make a start this Thursday....

There's nothing wrong with John Farmer's (RE6/6) that you have found but you need to be aware of the possibility of them shorting out on the bodywork. Will Litchfield has gone to great lengths to document his methods and it is worth reading his threads indexed here https://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=96&t=6934. Here he deals with springs (that I think are under the axle on your model) https://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=96&t=2932&start=25#p44740 and you may want to make yours removable so you can drop out the wheels. If you solder the springs to the frames you are unlikely to be able to do this. I know Dave Bradwell will say there should be no reason to do this once you have good running and he has a point. Bear in mind this is your first kit and you may need to disassemble it; conversely, it adds complexity.
47331xosIM wrote:I assume the rivets being half etched need stamping out in somewhat

The ashpan looks as if it is half etched and has raised rivets, so nothing is required.
petermeyer wrote:I use permanent markers; Red, Green, Blue, Black in that order.

Credit where it's due.
47331xosIM wrote:I presume the axle box should slide up and down easily but have no side-to-side movement?

No forward or aft movement at all, but they do need to be able to tilt sideways to allow one wheel to drop. No doubt the slots in the axleboxes/bearing will already be wide enough to do this.

Are you using DC or DCC?

Written before I read the threads posted this morning.
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Re: Newtonmoor Works - A grand title for a first workbench thread!

Postby davebradwell » Mon Sep 26, 2022 7:33 pm

Well, that last round seemed to go well and if John Redrup suggested a Slimline box then that's probably a very good idea.

Will, I've always used Exactoscale axleboxes which at 3.3 thick fit with just a little to spare. I'm not so familiar with the more standard slotted 'boxes which look a little slimmer but which, according to manufacturer, have a variable length round boss which I can see could cause anxiety if not cut down. With Rich's kit he has to use the EM frame spacers and this certainly won't help. One of the reasons I stopped doing a 00 adaptation of my kits was I just couldn't see what might be used as a gearbox.

Just to be clear I'm all for being able to dismantle a chassis even after it's running well. You might want to give it a service one day, fit nicer wheels or even just paint it. The so called 'keeper plate' also carries the pickups, sandpipes, and most recently I've started attaching the brakes but that is all for later. It all screws together (using those 10BA screws that DaveH commented on recently) rather than relying on glue.

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Winander
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Re: Newtonmoor Works - A grand title for a first workbench thread!

Postby Winander » Mon Sep 26, 2022 7:50 pm

davebradwell wrote:With Rich's kit he has to use the EM frame spacers


Did I miss something? Why EM, there is a full set of P4 spacers on the top right corner of the chassis fret labelled 5a S4?
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Re: Newtonmoor Works - A grand title for a first workbench thread!

Postby davebradwell » Mon Sep 26, 2022 7:59 pm

That's the second time I've messed up looking at the photos - mine aren't sharp and I just can't read the writing, particularly at the top so hadn't bothered. At least my incorrect comment wasn't important. First time was more a memory problem. Anyway, good news.

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Julian Roberts
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Re: Newtonmoor Works - A grand title for a first workbench thread!

Postby Julian Roberts » Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:44 pm

Regarding gear ratios. Dave has demonstrated his locos to me and there's no doubt of the rightness of his approach - given DCC. I am in the DC analogue timewarp and likely to stay there. So I gear my locos for the top motor rev to give me my maximum required speed, about 35 mph. This gives me good slow speed control which is what I want. Most of my locos use the highest gear ratio HL do, a couple have such big lower revving motors that 80:1 does the job. Yes there is motor whine at the top speed but sadly most places they run don't require that top speed for long, most of the time being spent manoevring at low speed.

For the Kyle layout I'm building I've bought a Pentroller and this may give a totally different level of control where my high ratios become superfluous.

Here are a couple of videos on our club layout, still being constructed, of Garlieston. The first is in the clubroom with not much background noise. The 0-4-4 accelerated unrealistically rapidly up to its top speed where the sound is audible. This loco has 1;108 ratio and a brass double ended UJ between motor and gearbox making it the noisiest of my fleet.




The second has conversation and Paisley Abbey striking 4 as a background noise, the loco is one of the 80:1 examples, accelerates to only about 20mph.



Actually the slow speed control isn't that great here but there were no preparations of cleaning track etc before the first video, and the track cleaned at 9am had become rather dirty by 4pm on the second.

And, obviously from these videos, whether you're happy or not with the whine depends on extraneous noise level; at an exhibition the noise is irrelevant (unless there is disastrously low attendance...); at home it may matter to you.

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Re: Newtonmoor Works - A grand title for a first workbench thread!

Postby davebradwell » Tue Sep 27, 2022 8:53 am

I found in dc days that a Pentroller would give an even lower speed than my Zimo decoders do now. You're unlikely to hear motor whine at exhibitions but on a home layout, especially in a loft, it can spoil the moment. I just can't see what is gained with a very high ratio - if there are any tight spots in a chassis to overcome it's surely better to fix them. Suppose there's an increase in the flywheel effect which will smooth things out but I'm not convinced - in the end it's a personal thing.

There must be a modern equivalent to a Pentroller that is a bit more robust.

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Re: Newtonmoor Works - A grand title for a first workbench thread!

Postby 47331xosIM » Tue Sep 27, 2022 10:07 pm

Winander wrote:They are held fortnightly on a Wednesday the next one is a week on Wednesday 5th October. It is extremely useful to be able to discuss things "face to face", I know it has helped me tremendously. You can make a start this Thursday.


Ah thanks for that, Richard. I'll do my best to be there, I should home on 5th October, and hopefully will have a bit of time on Thursday and evenings over the weekend to make some progress, you'll know if I do as I'll post it here!

Winander wrote:No forward or aft movement at all, but they do need to be able to tilt sideways to allow one wheel to drop. No doubt the slots in the axleboxes/bearing will already be wide enough to do this.

Thanks, thats useful. Yes my view is to follow your comment and Dave's about being able to dismantle the chassis with drop-out wheel sets. I may need some more help/advice/direction on that but we'll hang on till I get there!

Winander wrote:Are you using DC or DCC?

DC was the initial plan, but it may well be DCC with Zimo chips - my preferred when I modelled RTR 7mm scale. Certainly for the initial layout, DC would be fine, but if this build goes well and the rebuild of my garage into a railway room happens next year, then all of this would be a build up to a slightly bigger project and I suspect DCC would be the best with that. But probably DC to start with.

davebradwell wrote:That's the second time I've messed up looking at the photos - mine aren't sharp and I just can't read the writing, particularly at the top so hadn't bothered. At least my incorrect comment wasn't important. First time was more a memory problem. Anyway, good news.

Dont worry Dave, I keep having entire mornings like that! I am interested that you say yours aren't sharp - I found that if you click the photo in the thread it opens the full size file (which I deliberately left as full size) and then you may need to click the subsequent picture once so it zooms full size rather than compressing to get on the screen. They were taken on my Apple iPad, but are certainly sharp as a button here?

Julian Roberts wrote:Regarding gear ratios. Dave has demonstrated his locos to me and there's no doubt of the rightness of his approach - given DCC. I am in the DC analogue timewarp and likely to stay there. So I gear my locos for the top motor rev to give me my maximum required speed, about 35 mph. This gives me good slow speed control which is what I want. Most of my locos use the highest gear ratio HL do, a couple have such big lower revving motors that 80:1 does the job. Yes there is motor whine at the top speed but sadly most places they run don't require that top speed for long, most of the time being spent manoevring at low speed.


Hi Julian, thanks for chipping in. Lovely layout coming there in both videos btw! I am probably in the same boat to be honest, as I hate to see locos flying around on a layout, but it could have something to do with having worked for the real railway and realism is a big thing of what I am aiming for. Slow movements and a 30-35mph top speed I think is about right for most of what I am looking for. I think my plan will be to go for the 45:1 ratio an see how things pan out - if it ends up being too quick or too high top speed, I can always swap the gearbox out at a later date.

If there is a motor whine that does not bother me too much, as long as it isn't overpowering which it certainly does not seem to be on that first video. As a matter of interest, which motor did you use?

Thanks again for all the input guys! I might not get online tomorrow, so hopefully the next post from me will show a little bit of progress, rather than talk, with the actual kit!

Rich

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Winander
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Re: Newtonmoor Works - A grand title for a first workbench thread!

Postby Winander » Tue Sep 27, 2022 10:35 pm

47331xosIM wrote:if it ends up being too quick or too high top speed, I can always swap the gearbox out

You will probably be able to swap the gears, not the entire box https://www.highlevelkits.co.uk/spares

I have one of his 1320C coreless motors and whilst I have only run it on the bench, it is very quiet, even at full power.
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Re: Newtonmoor Works - A grand title for a first workbench thread!

Postby davebradwell » Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:55 am

Indeed, you can change ratios in HL 'boxes later and Chris supplied me with gears to drop the 108:1 in the little RSH 0-4-0ST to 54:1 which reduced the motor noise significantly. I'd somehow managed to box the thing in so it couldn't be dismantled and it was an interesting bit of surgery. Your 45:1 avoids any extremes, Rich, so should be a safe bet, which is probably why you chose it!

I should emphasise that this low ratio stuff does depend on having a controller that actually controls speed and that means feedback. Also decent internal electronics to avoid those buzzes and rattles prevalent in early units. You are familiar with what the Zimo can do, Rich. Remember you don't have to run the loco at full power so it doesn't matter if it will go too fast. At least dcc allows this to be scaled.

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Re: Newtonmoor Works - A grand title for a first workbench thread!

Postby 47331xosIM » Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:07 pm

Winander wrote:You will probably be able to swap the gears, not the entire box https://www.highlevelkits.co.uk/spares. I have one of his 1320C coreless motors and whilst I have only run it on the bench, it is very quiet, even at full power.


davebradwell wrote:Indeed, you can change ratios in HL 'boxes later and Chris supplied me with gears to drop the 108:1 in the little RSH 0-4-0ST to 54:1 which reduced the motor noise significantly. I'd somehow managed to box the thing in so it couldn't be dismantled and it was an interesting bit of surgery. Your 45:1 avoids any extremes, Rich, so should be a safe bet, which is probably why you chose it!


Cheers guys, thats a good thought Richard about changing the gears if necessary. Yes Dave you suspect right :) Having not done anything with gears before and wanting something that would shunt in the shed and run out on the main line, I thought the middle gearing option was the best best! Your comment about making the speed controllable is another reason for looking at DCC. I do prefer the Zimo chips, I think there is (what seems to me) to be a more precise control over motors than some of the other chips.

Rich

47331xosIM
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Re: Newtonmoor Works - A grand title for a first workbench thread!

Postby 47331xosIM » Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:20 pm

Well as anyone following this topic will have guessed from the change of the title, I did get the kit started this afternoon. Only small steps as I didn't get to spend as long as I wanted, but never the less I am happy at where I am.

The main frames have been cut out and all the remaining pips from the securing tabs gently filed off. I have cut the frames from the etch using a new blade on a Stanley knife, but is that the best thing as it seemed to have trouble at times, and after cutting 20 tabs for the LH and RH frames, now seems to barely mark the etch - do they blunt that quickly? Is there a better way to cut items out?

I then started to fold up the horn block frames (at which point I thought to take a photograph!) to give me:

IMG_2375.jpeg


Then having got all the horn blocks folded up, I took the comments on board from here about making sure the bearings glided up and down with no lateral movement. Three were great, one was very tight, the bearing would just about slide in the height of the brass bearing, but any hear required a bit of pressure..

IMG_2377.jpeg


IMG_2378.jpeg


So having examined from all sides, I decided that frame had probably etched a bit narrow and undertook some gentle filing until it slid in and out with ease. Now there are eight bearings, four of one size and four of another? I am assuming the larger of the two are 1/8 inside diameter for the driving wheel axles, and that the smaller are the bogie bearings? But there is nowhere in the instructions that I can see that tells you what the smaller size is?

I am assuming there is a right and a wrong way round for the bearings, as you'll see from the image below, but again nothing in the instructions to suggest to a beginner which is which? Given that these will be up against the driving wheels I am assuming the smooth size is outer and the one with the rim is the inner - or does the rim help to stop the wheels touching the frames??

IMG_2379.jpeg


Any thoughts would, as ever, be helpful .. but at least we're underway! Tomorrow's task is to get the frame spacers cut out and filed down, then I plan to solder the horn block frames which I have bent up into the frames already, and then solder the frame spacers (as per the instructions).

Rich
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Daddyman
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Re: Newtonmoor Works - NER O Class (LNER G5) Under Construction

Postby Daddyman » Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:35 pm

The upper arrangement in your photo is correct.

Your next problem is going to be that both Mike Meggison and I found that the compensation beams allow the bearings too much up-and-down movement in the slots on this kit, such that they can drop out of the frames if I recall correctly. Mike Meggison created a work-around, but I can't remember what it was. He has a thread on RMWeb and is an S4 member who occasionally posts on this forum. You can either ask him through a PM here or on RMW, or peruse his thread on RMW until you find his solution. The thread will give you lots of hints and tips for loco building anyway:
https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/101015-mi ... nt-4907693


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