Small details

Model and prototype rolling stock, locos, multiple units etc.
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David B
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Re: Small details

Postby David B » Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:14 pm

Monty wrote:Building my first nickel silver & brass kit, I am struggling to fit the tiny details such as lamp irons etc. What do people use to attach the small things on a locomotive?


Solder. Tin them first (do this on the fret), then use a clean iron (not tinned, no solder) or an RSU with a small amount of flux.

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steamraiser
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Re: Small details

Postby steamraiser » Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:25 pm

Hold in place with a wooden finger such as a coffee stirrer.
Taper the end to suit your needs.
I find using plenty of flux and a hot clean iron helps, but wash off say whrn you have finished fitting the front lamp irons.

Gordon A

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John Bateson
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Re: Small details

Postby John Bateson » Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:02 pm

Hold in place with a wooden finger such as a coffee stirrer


or cocktail stick


or miniature pegs such as http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B002X77R22/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1, I think these are available from Eileen's in smaller quantities

or use a liquid lead solder like 'Nealetin' available from Hobby Holidays, http://www.hobbyholidays.co.uk/proddetail.php?prod=Solderpaint but still put the tinning coat on while attached to the fret as David B. recommended earlier

and I decline to paste a URL for a cocktail stick :mrgreen:


John
Slaving away still on GCR stuff ...

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Noel
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Re: Small details

Postby Noel » Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:39 pm

Monty wrote:Superglue seems not to be great in attaching brass lamp irons to the nickel silver body & I am not having much better success with slow setting Araldite!


The very small contact area involved is likely to present problems with glues, but if the contact areas are not properly clean, then neither glue nor solder will work well, so you may wish to look carefully at that, if you haven't already.
Regards
Noel

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Tim V
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Re: Small details

Postby Tim V » Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:43 pm

Assemble in two stages, using high then lower meting point solders.
Tim V
(Not all railways in Somerset went to Dorset)

BrianW
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Re: Small details

Postby BrianW » Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:51 pm

Try using normal temperature solder for the 2 parts of the lamp iron, then a low temperature solder and lower temperature iron for attachment to the loco. I have used this method successfully on slightly larger parts, using normal electrical solder and Carrs 145.
The miniature pegs referred to by John are also available from the Pound shop (bag of 60).

Regards

Brian

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David B
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Re: Small details

Postby David B » Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:03 pm

Whose kit is this, Monty? What are you making? I have not come across two part lamp irons.

Sometimes there are better alternative parts. For example, the Masokit lamp irons are very good (though fiddly) and better than those that come with some kits. Don't feel that because something is in a kit it is necessarily the best part for the job. This depends very much on the kit and it's age . . . and experience. You can always plunder the collective knowledge on this Forum.

What has been described by some people above is called step soldering where you solder the first bits with a higher melting point solder - say 188o - then use a lower m.p. for the next, perhaps 145o, which should not melt the first part if you have adjusted your iron properly.

nigelcliffe
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Re: Small details

Postby nigelcliffe » Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:44 am

I agree with David B - whose kit ? There are some absolutely rubbish kit designs out there, and some which are totally superb. Quite a lot of beginner problems are down to rubbish kit designs.

The other matter might be that Monty would benefit from some soldering lessons/demonstration. Using different tools, irons tip sizes, choice of solders, fixings, etc.. for different jobs. Where are you based Monty ? There might be access to a group or a meeting, or a show, where some guidance could be given.


For holding things down, I suggest this article:
http://www.2mm.org.uk/mag0897/clamps.htm
I use a variation on the pegs on a post in the article, and fit a second bamboo skewer to the half-peg, and use the end of the skewer to hold things down.


- Nigel

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John Bateson
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Re: Small details

Postby John Bateson » Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:35 pm

Have a look at the attached instructions from the Masokits offer

Scan_20170627.png
Scan_20170627.png
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Slaving away still on GCR stuff ...

John Palmer
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Re: Small details

Postby John Palmer » Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:40 pm

Using solders having different melting points can be a useful technique even if, like me, you don't have a temperature-controlled iron. However, in my experience higher melting point solders have less good wetting properties than lower, and on very small assemblies I have difficulty making a satisfactory joint with high melting point solder. Perhaps I've been unlucky with my choice of such solder.

I do get good results from Carr's 183 tin/lead solder when assembling pre-tinned strips of nickel silver into T-shaped lamp irons. To solder such assemblies in place I use the technique illustrated below, again using 183 solder to secure the assembly to the tender or bunker backplate.
Soldering lamp irons.jpg
The assembled lamp iron needs to be freed of any excess solder that might cause the iron to become attached to the tweezers, although the risk of this is reduced by the use of stainless steel tweezers, to which the solder is more reluctant to adhere. The benefits of this technique are:

(1) the tweezers are holding the lamp iron's two components in correct alignment as you solder – even if the solder joint between them liquefies whilst you are attaching the assembly to the tank/bunker, they will retain that correct alignment when the joint cools again

(2) the tweezers act as a heat shunt, reducing the likelihood of the lamp iron's two components separating in the first place.

I prefer nickel silver to brass for the strip from which I make lamp irons – stiffer, stronger, lower rate of heat transfer. I make suitable strips of n/s by cutting it with a skrawker from .005” shim.
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