Grampian Group at Aberdeen

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John Donnelly
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Re: Grampian Group at Aberdeen

Postby John Donnelly » Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:46 pm

Indeed it is :D

It is, however, a shame that almost every thread on RMWeb that mentions P4 ends up in a pi**ing match...

John

Natalie Graham

Re: Grampian Group at Aberdeen

Postby Natalie Graham » Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:31 am

johndon wrote:It is, however, a shame that almost every thread on RMWeb that mentions P4 ends up in a pi**ing match...


I think it well illustrates the kind of entrenched attitude towards anything that involves more than taking it out of the box and watching it run round and round that is held by so many in the hobby. The remarks about elitism in the thread you posted are so typical of those who neither understand, or want to, why people want to do anything but buy products from the trade and assemble them into a layout. I can't say I have encountered very many who modelled in the 'finescale' versions of any of the modelling scales who struck me as elitist but there seem to be many who take an 'inferiorist' (to coin a new word) attitude to their own chosen commercial scale/gauge combination.

Someone posted on there to the effect of why would you anyone bother to build track when you can buy it in 00 gauge. Maybe as someone from Yorkshire living in Aberdeenshire I am more careful with my money than most but my view is more why would you buy something when you can make it yourself. One could ask what is the point of building model railways at all. For me it is the enjoyment of building things. I find little, if anything, to enjoy in buying a mass produced model and taking it out of the box. I don't particularly enjoy putting kits together all that much either but I can derive many hours of enjoyment from cutting out and soldering bits of nickel silver to make a loco or whatever it might be, even if the thing itself never gets finished much less gets to be part of a layout. It is the process of making it I enjoy not the end result. From that perspective 00 gauge has little if anything to offer me. Why would I want to deliberately build models which are dimensionally inaccurate? I would not intentionally build models with the buffers too close together, or the wrong diameter boiler so why would I want to do that with the track gauge?

I built my first layout using hand-built track when I was about 14. A quite extensive layout with a load of pointwork, In 00, all soldered with copper-clad sleepers using first off an old 'heat on the gas ring soldering iron' and then a Weller soldering gun which my dad bought to stop me having to trip off to the kitchen every few minutes to heat the iron again. The fact it would not run any of my commercially made stock, other than the Peco Wonderful Wagon I used to test it as I was building it, was my first illustration of the importance of compatible track and wheel standards and in particular flange width and check rail clearances. I have not built anything in 00 gauge since.

To try and relate this back to the discussion on why people seem reluctant to take up P4 it is leading me to wonder whether that perhaps the relationship with 00 gauge, i.e. sharing a common scale, is part of the issue, and that 00 modellers tend to think of it from the perspective of how it relates to 00, in a way they would not with say 2mm FS or Scaleseven which they see as stand alone scale/gauges. It would be good if people were to shake off the perception that it is the 'finescale arm of 00 gauge; to look at it from a perspective other than that of rtr 00 being the baseline and to see P4 as a choice that offers different advantages and is not, as was said on that RMWeb thread 'just 00 with wider track'.

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Andy W
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Re: Grampian Group at Aberdeen

Postby Andy W » Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:18 pm

Natalie, I think you've highlighted the difference in attitudes between finescale and non finescale modellers - it's the love of building things. I would think many arrive at P4 having started in 00, moved on to building finescale 00, and then moved to P4. Those who don't build (or commission) won't make the change.
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Tim V
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Re: Grampian Group at Aberdeen

Postby Tim V » Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:09 pm

And I thought it was because it looked better...
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Will L
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Re: Grampian Group at Aberdeen

Postby Will L » Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:26 pm

Natalie Graham wrote: Someone posted on there (RMweb) to the effect of why would you anyone bother to build track when you can buy it in 00 gauge. Maybe as someone from Yorkshire living in Aberdeenshire I am more careful with my money than most but my view is more why would you buy something when you can make it yourself. One could ask what is the point of building model railways at all. For me it is the enjoyment of building things. I find little, if anything, to enjoy in buying a mass produced model and taking it out of the box. I don't particularly enjoy putting kits together all that much either but I can derive many hours of enjoyment from cutting out and soldering bits of nickel silver to make a loco or whatever it might be, even if the thing itself never gets finished much less gets to be part of a layout. It is the process of making it I enjoy not the end result. From that perspective 00 gauge has little if anything to offer me. Why would I want to deliberately build models which are dimensionally inaccurate? I would not intentionally build models with the buffers too close together, or the wrong diameter boiler so why would I want to do that with the track gauge?


Oh yes could not agree more

Tim V wrote:And I thought it was because it looked better...


While I agree some people do come form there and while I'm all for inclusivity, and tolerance for the view of others and I agree the P4 society needs to be a broad enough church to include us all, let not forget the thing only exists because of people who thought like Natalie.

Will


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