Ken Line plus
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Ken Line plus
I have now used my stash of Ken Line 4mm fittings of GWR brake gear which originally cost 7½p. I could do with some more, so does anyone know if they (or similar) are available and where from?
For those that have not seen them, these are white metal castings of V hangers, ratchet bits and brake handles for Dean Churchward brake gear, enough in one packet for a single wagon.
Does anyone know of a source of etched coupling hook plates? I particularly want some for the GWR which are 'rectangular' but wider at the bottom than the top.
David
For those that have not seen them, these are white metal castings of V hangers, ratchet bits and brake handles for Dean Churchward brake gear, enough in one packet for a single wagon.
Does anyone know of a source of etched coupling hook plates? I particularly want some for the GWR which are 'rectangular' but wider at the bottom than the top.
David
Re: Ken Line plus
davidb wrote: for the GWR which are 'rectangular' but wider at the bottom than the top.
David
'trapezoid'
John
(just keeping your query at the top)
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Re: Ken Line plus
Thank you, John. I knew it was something ***oid. It's so long since I did O level maths, much which I have never used and has now been archived in the part of the brain most beers never reach.
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Re: Ken Line plus
davidb wrote:I have now used my stash of Ken Line 4mm fittings of GWR brake gear which originally cost 7½p. I could do with some more, so does anyone know if they (or similar) are available and where from?
For those that have not seen them, these are white metal castings of V hangers, ratchet bits and brake handles for Dean Churchward brake gear, enough in one packet for a single wagon.
I think that I have a stash of those at home. Purchased in schoolboy days, when the model shop in the Burlington Arcade, underneath the Midland Hotel next to New Street Station, closed down...
I'll have a look for you when I reach home.
Cheers
Flymo
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk
www.5522models.co.uk
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Re: Ken Line plus
I still have some Kenline castings in my wagon components box. These can be very useful for some things where other manufacturers have not produced similar castings. But I don't think Kenline products have been available for many years (unless anyone is able to update us on this).
Re: Ken Line plus
I think there is a need for more components like those Ken Line components, possibly in a more modern material than cast metal. My research into what is available seems to show there is quite a lot of stuff that is 'almost' if not exactly GWR but much of it is too modern, ie post-grouping, to be easily converted to look like vehicles from Victorian/Edwardian eras.
I have seen lots of interesting stuff on the 3d printing sites but it is mainly 2mm scale or smaller and very little for the 4mm modeller. There is for instance a 2mm scale model of the outside-framed brakevan, some of which survived to become the AA16 type after WW1. There are some 4mm scale models of GN (I think) outside framed vans which show it is possible to print 3d models of that size.
Bill Bedford has done some 3d printed stuff but it is marked 'not for sale' but I think 3d printing could well be the way forward for small runs of things like brake gear or springs/axle boxes. And I think the next generation of the 'Coopercraft wagons' could be 3d printed ones.
John
I have seen lots of interesting stuff on the 3d printing sites but it is mainly 2mm scale or smaller and very little for the 4mm modeller. There is for instance a 2mm scale model of the outside-framed brakevan, some of which survived to become the AA16 type after WW1. There are some 4mm scale models of GN (I think) outside framed vans which show it is possible to print 3d models of that size.
Bill Bedford has done some 3d printed stuff but it is marked 'not for sale' but I think 3d printing could well be the way forward for small runs of things like brake gear or springs/axle boxes. And I think the next generation of the 'Coopercraft wagons' could be 3d printed ones.
John
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Re: Ken Line plus
davidb wrote:Does anyone know of a source of etched coupling hook plates? I particularly want some for the GWR which are 'rectangular' but wider at the bottom than the top.
MJT rocking-iron W-irons have them on the etch.
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Re: Ken Line plus
David,
I wonder whether ABS would be a good port of call? No web site, but a phone call should get you a list:
ABS Models
39 Napier Road, Poole, Dorset , BH15 4LX
Telephone: 01202 672891
Philip
I wonder whether ABS would be a good port of call? No web site, but a phone call should get you a list:
ABS Models
39 Napier Road, Poole, Dorset , BH15 4LX
Telephone: 01202 672891
Philip
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Re: Ken Line plus
Thank you for the suggestions. Did Ken Line just wither away?
Does anyone have measurements of the coupling hook plate, preferably of the original? I have a photograph.
David
Does anyone have measurements of the coupling hook plate, preferably of the original? I have a photograph.
David
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Re: Ken Line plus
johnlewis wrote:I have seen lots of interesting stuff on the 3d printing sites but it is mainly 2mm scale or smaller and very little for the 4mm modeller.
If the original draughtsman will let you have the files from which the 2mm models are printed, then it should be easy to rescale them. However, you may might find that the details become too coarse - I'm thinking of nuts and rivets particularly which are often over-scale in 2mm - and need to be redrawn.
Also, the prices for 4mm bodies can be quite high; the price scales with volume of material printed.
Some of Bill's wagon fittings are for sale on the Shapeways site.
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Re: Ken Line plus
Ambis do a nice selection of the plates that go behind coupling hooks.
Weren't Kenline an off shoot of K's?
Weren't Kenline an off shoot of K's?
Tim V
(Not all railways in Somerset went to Dorset)
(Not all railways in Somerset went to Dorset)
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Re: Ken Line plus
Flymo748 wrote:davidb wrote:I have now used my stash of Ken Line 4mm fittings of GWR brake gear which originally cost 7½p. I could do with some more, so does anyone know if they (or similar) are available and where from?
For those that have not seen them, these are white metal castings of V hangers, ratchet bits and brake handles for Dean Churchward brake gear, enough in one packet for a single wagon.
I think that I have a stash of those at home. Purchased in schoolboy days, when the model shop in the Burlington Arcade, underneath the Midland Hotel next to New Street Station, closed down...
Unfortunately, on checking the BBOB (Big Box of Brakes), wagon that is, it pulled up a variety of Kenline brakegear, but none of the DC variant:
A quick look through the box did reveal a couple of packets of Perseverance DC lever etches, which include the handle, quadrant and swan-neck lever. As you can see, they are coded "P503" but a quick google didn't produce a current supplier.
Finally, on the theme of DC brakes, the same search did produce a product from Mainly Trains that may still be available. "MT236 GWR DC Dean/Churchward Brake Gear . . . . .£3.60 Shaft Brackets, Ratchets, Cranks & Brake Shoes for variants of the DC Gear for Fitted Wagons (2 Sets)"
HTH
Flymo
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Re: Ken Line plus
guyrixon wrote:If the original draughtsman will let you have the files from which the 2mm models are printed, then it should be easy to rescale them. However, you may might find that the details become too coarse - I'm thinking of nuts and rivets particularly which are often over-scale in 2mm - and need to be redrawn.
I did ask but got much the same answer about details becoming too coarse.
Also, the prices for 4mm bodies can be quite high; the price scales with volume of material printed.
Some of Bill's wagon fittings are for sale on the Shapeways site.
I have now found these -
GWR OK axleboxes,springs and buffers buffers, €18.09 by MousaModels
4mm scale axleboxes, springs and buffer guides for GWR wagons. Enough for six wagons Instructions
I know the outside framed toads ended up with OK axleboxes but would need to check when before I could consider using these and of course I only need one brakevan.
Cambrian Railways 6 Ton Van, €13.57 by AlanClogwyn
This one doesn't give a scale but it looks too cheap to be 4mm but this is 4mm
NSR 10ton Ballast Brake Van - 4mm scale - in WSF, €16.75 by 5D_Stoke
North Staffordshire Railway Brake Van conversion for ballast trains, orig built c mid 1870s to early 1900s.
exactly the right period but wrong company and the price is fine by me for just a body, full details here
http://www.shapeways.com/model/937901/n ... terialId=6
it is rather more expendive in FUD @ 45 euros, but I think still acceptable even allowing that it still needs some detailing.
http://www.shapeways.com/model/788440/n ... erialId=61
I don't know enough to be able to compare costs between producing a set of moulds for coopercraft style kits and preparing the artwork for a 3D printed model.
Nor do I know what it costs to do the setting up for producing an etched kit, I get the impression that it is something some people seem to be able to do with little or no bother
John
Re: Ken Line plus
johnlewis wrote:Bill Bedford has done some 3d printed stuff but it is marked 'not for sale' but I think 3d printing could well be the way forward for small runs of things like brake gear or springs/axle boxes. And I think the next generation of the 'Coopercraft wagons' could be 3d printed ones.
The 'for sale' stuff is on the Mousa Models Shapeways shop. But since Brits seem to hate paying in Euros, it is not much used.
Re: Ken Line plus
guyrixon wrote:Also, the prices for 4mm bodies can be quite high; the price scales with volume of material printed.
A 4mm print will usually be 6-8 times the price of a 2mm one depending on whether the producer has reduced the thickness of the walls.
A rule of thumb in the general prototyping industry is calculate a rate for the job and then multiply 1 * x, 10 * y and 100 * z, where x,y and z are the dimensions of the bounding box of the piece to be printed.
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Re: Ken Line plus
billbedford wrote:...But since Brits seem to hate paying in Euros, it is not much used.
Are you SURE that is the reason "Brits" don't much use it?
This Brit for one would NEVER buy an item off the internet based on an "artist's impression" - well OK a computer render - I might buy if there were photographs of the real item. And if it were a quality item at the right price, I would not care if it were priced in conch shells - my Flexible Friend deals with that
I am in no way having a go at Shapeways or Mousa Models here, but I have a fear these days that there are just a few too many "computer renders" doing the rounds in this hobby!
Now I can do computer renders as well as the next man - here is one of mine:-
And no, the real thing does not exist - nor has it done this last 50 years!
Regards,
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Re: Ken Line plus
billbedford wrote:The 'for sale' stuff is on the Mousa Models Shapeways shop. But since Brits seem to hate paying in Euros, it is not much used.
How do you pay in euros with only a british bank account?
Several years ago I needed to pay to have our car transported from where it had broken down back to where we were staying (our daughters holiday home near Poitiers).
Eventually we found a garage with a transporter vehicle, I didn't have enough euros to pay what he wanted to do the job and we couldn't find anywhere to get more on my credit card (it was a Sunday). The garage owner didn't have the facility to take payment via the card and wouldn't accept a cheque made out in UK pounds although after some haggling he agreed to transport the car for the euros we had plus some UK currency notes in part payment (the total cost was a couple of hundred UK pounds) and trusted me to send him the balance later (how many British garages would do that for a complete stranger?)
I got our daughter to send him a cheque in euros drawn on her french bank account when we eventually got back to the UK (another long story) and the car remained in France until it was repaired and I went back to collect it with my daughter and her husband later in the year.
John
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Re: Ken Line plus
johnlewis wrote:How do you pay in euros with only a british bank account?
Sad old war story there John - glad it had a happy end - but in fairness to Bill and Shapeways it does not apply in this case - three clicks and you are there.
(but I still will not be buying any renders!)
Regards.
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Re: Ken Line plus
johnlewis wrote:billbedford wrote:
How do you pay in euros with only a british bank account?
You use your credit card or PayPal.
Alan
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Re: Ken Line plus
I would appreciate it, please, that if people want to discuss a different topic to the thread in question, they start a new thread.
Further offers of help on either the Ken Line bits or the coupling hook plate will be welcomed.
David
Further offers of help on either the Ken Line bits or the coupling hook plate will be welcomed.
David
Re: Ken Line plus
davidb wrote:I would appreciate it, please, that if people want to discuss a different topic to the thread in question, they start a new thread.
Enter one dead thread...........
Further offers of help on either the Ken Line bits or the coupling hook plate will be welcomed.
KenLine are essentially ancient history. If you want coupling plates or crown plates etc. you are going to have to etch your own. For 30 quid or so you could have enough to to last you a couple of lifetimes.
Rendered Sales
JFS wrote:
Are you SURE that is the reason "Brits" don't much use it?
Yep, all the sales have come from Oz
This Brit for one would NEVER buy an item off the internet based on an "artist's impression" - well OK a computer render - I might buy if there were photographs of the real item. And if it were a quality item at the right price, I would not care if it were priced in conch shells - my Flexible Friend deals with that
Interesting, since I seem to sell most of my stock from no more than listings more line drawings. If Hornby, Bachman and the rest, can sell all the first batches of their latest and greatest on nothing more than promises, I feel I'm in good company.
Actually there is a good reason for using renderings, in that the plastic is almost transparent. So photographs tend not to show the surface details well.
Re: Ken Line plus
Flymo748 wrote:Finally, on the theme of DC brakes, the same search did produce a product from Mainly Trains that may still be available. "MT236 GWR DC Dean/Churchward Brake Gear . . . . .£3.60 Shaft Brackets, Ratchets, Cranks & Brake Shoes for variants of the DC Gear for Fitted Wagons (2 Sets)"
Flymo
I just bought some 'Mainly Trains' etches for GWR wagon detailing and there are some of the coupling hook plates on etch MT166 but they are square ones.
Their Nov 2013 printed catalogue, which came with the etches, still has the Churchward Brake Gear etches listed.
John
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