Ken Line plus

Information on sources for hard to find or unusual items.
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David B
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Ken Line plus

Postby David B » Fri Dec 13, 2013 5:33 pm

I have now used my stash of Ken Line 4mm fittings of GWR brake gear which originally cost 7½p. I could do with some more, so does anyone know if they (or similar) are available and where from?

For those that have not seen them, these are white metal castings of V hangers, ratchet bits and brake handles for Dean Churchward brake gear, enough in one packet for a single wagon.

Does anyone know of a source of etched coupling hook plates? I particularly want some for the GWR which are 'rectangular' but wider at the bottom than the top.

David

jayell

Re: Ken Line plus

Postby jayell » Fri Dec 13, 2013 6:22 pm

davidb wrote: for the GWR which are 'rectangular' but wider at the bottom than the top.
David


'trapezoid'

John

(just keeping your query at the top)

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David B
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Re: Ken Line plus

Postby David B » Fri Dec 13, 2013 6:56 pm

Thank you, John. I knew it was something ***oid. It's so long since I did O level maths, much which I have never used and has now been archived in the part of the brain most beers never reach.

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Paul Willis
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Re: Ken Line plus

Postby Paul Willis » Fri Dec 13, 2013 7:20 pm

davidb wrote:I have now used my stash of Ken Line 4mm fittings of GWR brake gear which originally cost 7½p. I could do with some more, so does anyone know if they (or similar) are available and where from?

For those that have not seen them, these are white metal castings of V hangers, ratchet bits and brake handles for Dean Churchward brake gear, enough in one packet for a single wagon.


I think that I have a stash of those at home. Purchased in schoolboy days, when the model shop in the Burlington Arcade, underneath the Midland Hotel next to New Street Station, closed down...

I'll have a look for you when I reach home.

Cheers
Flymo
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk

martin goodall
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Re: Ken Line plus

Postby martin goodall » Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:05 pm

I still have some Kenline castings in my wagon components box. These can be very useful for some things where other manufacturers have not produced similar castings. But I don't think Kenline products have been available for many years (unless anyone is able to update us on this).

jayell

Re: Ken Line plus

Postby jayell » Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:25 pm

I think there is a need for more components like those Ken Line components, possibly in a more modern material than cast metal. My research into what is available seems to show there is quite a lot of stuff that is 'almost' if not exactly GWR but much of it is too modern, ie post-grouping, to be easily converted to look like vehicles from Victorian/Edwardian eras.

I have seen lots of interesting stuff on the 3d printing sites but it is mainly 2mm scale or smaller and very little for the 4mm modeller. There is for instance a 2mm scale model of the outside-framed brakevan, some of which survived to become the AA16 type after WW1. There are some 4mm scale models of GN (I think) outside framed vans which show it is possible to print 3d models of that size.

Bill Bedford has done some 3d printed stuff but it is marked 'not for sale' but I think 3d printing could well be the way forward for small runs of things like brake gear or springs/axle boxes. And I think the next generation of the 'Coopercraft wagons' could be 3d printed ones.

John

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Russ Elliott
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Re: Ken Line plus

Postby Russ Elliott » Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:31 pm

davidb wrote:Does anyone know of a source of etched coupling hook plates? I particularly want some for the GWR which are 'rectangular' but wider at the bottom than the top.

MJT rocking-iron W-irons have them on the etch.

Philip Hall
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Re: Ken Line plus

Postby Philip Hall » Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:45 pm

David,

I wonder whether ABS would be a good port of call? No web site, but a phone call should get you a list:

ABS Models
39 Napier Road, Poole, Dorset , BH15 4LX
Telephone: 01202 672891

Philip

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David B
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Re: Ken Line plus

Postby David B » Sat Dec 14, 2013 9:24 am

Thank you for the suggestions. Did Ken Line just wither away?

Does anyone have measurements of the coupling hook plate, preferably of the original? I have a photograph.

David

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Guy Rixon
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Re: Ken Line plus

Postby Guy Rixon » Sat Dec 14, 2013 9:55 am

johnlewis wrote:I have seen lots of interesting stuff on the 3d printing sites but it is mainly 2mm scale or smaller and very little for the 4mm modeller.


If the original draughtsman will let you have the files from which the 2mm models are printed, then it should be easy to rescale them. However, you may might find that the details become too coarse - I'm thinking of nuts and rivets particularly which are often over-scale in 2mm - and need to be redrawn.

Also, the prices for 4mm bodies can be quite high; the price scales with volume of material printed.

Some of Bill's wagon fittings are for sale on the Shapeways site.

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Tim V
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Re: Ken Line plus

Postby Tim V » Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:12 am

Ambis do a nice selection of the plates that go behind coupling hooks.

Weren't Kenline an off shoot of K's?
Tim V
Scalefour News Editor

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Paul Willis
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Re: Ken Line plus

Postby Paul Willis » Sat Dec 14, 2013 6:15 pm

Flymo748 wrote:
davidb wrote:I have now used my stash of Ken Line 4mm fittings of GWR brake gear which originally cost 7½p. I could do with some more, so does anyone know if they (or similar) are available and where from?

For those that have not seen them, these are white metal castings of V hangers, ratchet bits and brake handles for Dean Churchward brake gear, enough in one packet for a single wagon.


I think that I have a stash of those at home. Purchased in schoolboy days, when the model shop in the Burlington Arcade, underneath the Midland Hotel next to New Street Station, closed down...


Unfortunately, on checking the BBOB (Big Box of Brakes), wagon that is, it pulled up a variety of Kenline brakegear, but none of the DC variant:

IMG_7819.JPG


A quick look through the box did reveal a couple of packets of Perseverance DC lever etches, which include the handle, quadrant and swan-neck lever. As you can see, they are coded "P503" but a quick google didn't produce a current supplier.

IMG_7822.JPG


Finally, on the theme of DC brakes, the same search did produce a product from Mainly Trains that may still be available. "MT236 GWR DC Dean/Churchward Brake Gear . . . . .£3.60 Shaft Brackets, Ratchets, Cranks & Brake Shoes for variants of the DC Gear for Fitted Wagons (2 Sets)"

HTH
Flymo
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk

jayell

Re: Ken Line plus

Postby jayell » Sat Dec 14, 2013 11:37 pm

guyrixon wrote:If the original draughtsman will let you have the files from which the 2mm models are printed, then it should be easy to rescale them. However, you may might find that the details become too coarse - I'm thinking of nuts and rivets particularly which are often over-scale in 2mm - and need to be redrawn.


I did ask but got much the same answer about details becoming too coarse.

Also, the prices for 4mm bodies can be quite high; the price scales with volume of material printed.

Some of Bill's wagon fittings are for sale on the Shapeways site.


I have now found these -
GWR OK axleboxes,springs and buffers buffers, €18.09 by MousaModels
4mm scale axleboxes, springs and buffer guides for GWR wagons. Enough for six wagons Instructions
I know the outside framed toads ended up with OK axleboxes but would need to check when before I could consider using these and of course I only need one brakevan.

Cambrian Railways 6 Ton Van, €13.57 by AlanClogwyn
This one doesn't give a scale but it looks too cheap to be 4mm but this is 4mm
NSR 10ton Ballast Brake Van - 4mm scale - in WSF, €16.75 by 5D_Stoke
North Staffordshire Railway Brake Van conversion for ballast trains, orig built c mid 1870s to early 1900s.
exactly the right period but wrong company and the price is fine by me for just a body, full details here
http://www.shapeways.com/model/937901/n ... terialId=6
it is rather more expendive in FUD @ 45 euros, but I think still acceptable even allowing that it still needs some detailing.
http://www.shapeways.com/model/788440/n ... erialId=61

I don't know enough to be able to compare costs between producing a set of moulds for coopercraft style kits and preparing the artwork for a 3D printed model.

Nor do I know what it costs to do the setting up for producing an etched kit, I get the impression that it is something some people seem to be able to do with little or no bother 8-)

John

billbedford
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Re: Ken Line plus

Postby billbedford » Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:46 am

johnlewis wrote:Bill Bedford has done some 3d printed stuff but it is marked 'not for sale' but I think 3d printing could well be the way forward for small runs of things like brake gear or springs/axle boxes. And I think the next generation of the 'Coopercraft wagons' could be 3d printed ones.


The 'for sale' stuff is on the Mousa Models Shapeways shop. But since Brits seem to hate paying in Euros, it is not much used.
Bill Bedford
Mousa Models
http://www.mousa.biz

billbedford
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Re: Ken Line plus

Postby billbedford » Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:54 am

guyrixon wrote:Also, the prices for 4mm bodies can be quite high; the price scales with volume of material printed.


A 4mm print will usually be 6-8 times the price of a 2mm one depending on whether the producer has reduced the thickness of the walls.

A rule of thumb in the general prototyping industry is calculate a rate for the job and then multiply 1 * x, 10 * y and 100 * z, where x,y and z are the dimensions of the bounding box of the piece to be printed.
Bill Bedford
Mousa Models
http://www.mousa.biz

JFS
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Re: Ken Line plus

Postby JFS » Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:06 pm

billbedford wrote:...But since Brits seem to hate paying in Euros, it is not much used.


Are you SURE that is the reason "Brits" don't much use it?

This Brit for one would NEVER buy an item off the internet based on an "artist's impression" - well OK a computer render - I might buy if there were photographs of the real item. And if it were a quality item at the right price, I would not care if it were priced in conch shells - my Flexible Friend deals with that

I am in no way having a go at Shapeways or Mousa Models here, but I have a fear these days that there are just a few too many "computer renders" doing the rounds in this hobby!

Now I can do computer renders as well as the next man - here is one of mine:-

times HP side.jpg


And no, the real thing does not exist - nor has it done this last 50 years!



Regards,

jayell

Re: Ken Line plus

Postby jayell » Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:10 pm

billbedford wrote:The 'for sale' stuff is on the Mousa Models Shapeways shop. But since Brits seem to hate paying in Euros, it is not much used.


How do you pay in euros with only a british bank account?

Several years ago I needed to pay to have our car transported from where it had broken down back to where we were staying (our daughters holiday home near Poitiers).

Eventually we found a garage with a transporter vehicle, I didn't have enough euros to pay what he wanted to do the job and we couldn't find anywhere to get more on my credit card (it was a Sunday). The garage owner didn't have the facility to take payment via the card and wouldn't accept a cheque made out in UK pounds although after some haggling he agreed to transport the car for the euros we had plus some UK currency notes in part payment (the total cost was a couple of hundred UK pounds) and trusted me to send him the balance later (how many British garages would do that for a complete stranger?)

I got our daughter to send him a cheque in euros drawn on her french bank account when we eventually got back to the UK (another long story) and the car remained in France until it was repaired and I went back to collect it with my daughter and her husband later in the year.

John

JFS
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Re: Ken Line plus

Postby JFS » Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:40 pm

johnlewis wrote:How do you pay in euros with only a british bank account?


Sad old war story there John - glad it had a happy end - but in fairness to Bill and Shapeways it does not apply in this case - three clicks and you are there.

(but I still will not be buying any renders!)

Regards.

Alan Turner
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Re: Ken Line plus

Postby Alan Turner » Sun Dec 15, 2013 4:23 pm

johnlewis wrote:
billbedford wrote:
How do you pay in euros with only a british bank account?



You use your credit card or PayPal.

Alan

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David B
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Re: Ken Line plus

Postby David B » Sun Dec 15, 2013 5:04 pm

I would appreciate it, please, that if people want to discuss a different topic to the thread in question, they start a new thread.

Further offers of help on either the Ken Line bits or the coupling hook plate will be welcomed.

David

billbedford
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Re: Ken Line plus

Postby billbedford » Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:34 am

davidb wrote:I would appreciate it, please, that if people want to discuss a different topic to the thread in question, they start a new thread.


Enter one dead thread...........

Further offers of help on either the Ken Line bits or the coupling hook plate will be welcomed.


KenLine are essentially ancient history. If you want coupling plates or crown plates etc. you are going to have to etch your own. For 30 quid or so you could have enough to to last you a couple of lifetimes.
Bill Bedford
Mousa Models
http://www.mousa.biz

billbedford
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Rendered Sales

Postby billbedford » Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:54 am

JFS wrote:
Are you SURE that is the reason "Brits" don't much use it?


Yep, all the sales have come from Oz


This Brit for one would NEVER buy an item off the internet based on an "artist's impression" - well OK a computer render - I might buy if there were photographs of the real item. And if it were a quality item at the right price, I would not care if it were priced in conch shells - my Flexible Friend deals with that



Interesting, since I seem to sell most of my stock from no more than listings more line drawings. If Hornby, Bachman and the rest, can sell all the first batches of their latest and greatest on nothing more than promises, I feel I'm in good company.

Actually there is a good reason for using renderings, in that the plastic is almost transparent. So photographs tend not to show the surface details well.
Bill Bedford
Mousa Models
http://www.mousa.biz

jayell

Re: Ken Line plus

Postby jayell » Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:17 am

Flymo748 wrote:Finally, on the theme of DC brakes, the same search did produce a product from Mainly Trains that may still be available. "MT236 GWR DC Dean/Churchward Brake Gear . . . . .£3.60 Shaft Brackets, Ratchets, Cranks & Brake Shoes for variants of the DC Gear for Fitted Wagons (2 Sets)"
Flymo


I just bought some 'Mainly Trains' etches for GWR wagon detailing and there are some of the coupling hook plates on etch MT166 but they are square ones.

Their Nov 2013 printed catalogue, which came with the etches, still has the Churchward Brake Gear etches listed.

John

JFS
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Re: Ken Line plus

Postby JFS » Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:35 pm


JFS
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Re: Ken Line plus

Postby JFS » Fri Dec 20, 2013 5:28 pm



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