Cornish Riviera Area Group

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steve howe
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Re: Cornish Riviera Area Group

Postby steve howe » Mon Oct 18, 2021 6:17 pm

bécasse wrote:As Watermouth is apparently an embarkation point for Europe and the Channel Islands, don't forget that you will need a Customs' examination hall for all inbound passengers, and also immigration/emigration control facilities for passengers travelling in both directions from/to Europe.


That may have ben why Pat English left a larger than average space behind the Booking Hall.
3. plan.JPG


However I am assuming that 'Boat Trains' worked directly through to the docks via the dock branch where presumably the Customs Hall and immigration offices would be situated. There is no room, or inclination, to model the docks - we've got enough to do! - other than to install a small secondary fiddle yard where dock traffic can be received and dispatched.

Steve
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kevini

Re: Cornish Riviera Area Group

Postby kevini » Wed Oct 27, 2021 4:29 pm

Thanks Steve......pity numbers of us pasty eaters are so low but hey ho!
I am just about to start on building my first P4 straight track and posted some help questions in the forum earlier.
I have also received a few simple wagon kits and brass chassis kits to try out my building and got a brassmasters GWR pannier as my first loco to build.

I have a lot of general model building experience but model railways are new to me apart from building one with my father when young.

I am thinking of a 30ft long L end to end layout (maybe with a hidden loop under) with a station, fiddle yard, harbour, small halt and some countryside maybe inspired by Penzance or ????

I have a 3D resin printer and will be getting an MDF laser cutter so am looking forward to using those for scenery and maybe baseboard construction as well.

Confucious says climb the mountain step be step

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steve howe
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Re: Cornish Riviera Area Group

Postby steve howe » Fri Dec 02, 2022 12:26 pm

Bridge over the river Ply!

Work has been steadily progressing with Watermouth over the last 12 months with a total rewire completed and new control panel installed. We are now embarking on the long curved girder bridge which will carry the line over an estuary and on through St David's Junction. The bridge is inspired by the iron bridge at Barnstaple which carried the Ilfracombe branch over the river Taw. The ruling radius is around 5' with a total length of just short of 6'

These recent images show the state of play so far with the second (outer) rail about to be laid.
barnsta[ple bridge 1.jpg


barnstaple bridge 4.jpg


The base was cut in one piece from 3.5mm ply, the stanchions are the good old Hornby elevated railway parts which I squirrelled away a long time ago for just such a project!
bridge1.jpg


bridge3.jpg


The rails will be carried on longitudinal baulks. The inner curve which carries a continuous checkrail was tackled first using 1/8th x 3/16th spruce which turned out to be not quite wide enough to take the double checkrail chairs comfortably so was augmented with a strip of 1/8th x 1/16th material laid alongside. Spruce was not my first choice for this job preferring to use basswood, but it proved almost impossible to find at the moment, The spruce does have good tensile strength however which helped stiffen the deck. The deck is not yet attached to the stanchions whose final spacing will be determined by the method of representing the girders.
bridge5.jpg


bridge6.jpg


Threading the Exactoscale chairs on two sets of rail proved 'challenging' ! but eventually it was done and the first rail set in place.
bridge7.JPG


bridge8.JPG


The second baulks and rail just starting to go in.
bridge10.jpg


Decisions are still pending as to the girders themselves.

Just to say, if any Cornish members would like to get involved they would be very welcome!!
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Rod Cameron
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Re: Cornish Riviera Area Group

Postby Rod Cameron » Fri Dec 02, 2022 1:56 pm

That's looking very good Steve :D

I sympathise with you threading the check rail chairs on - what was the longest length of rail you did at a time? Lewes was bad enough with checked sections up to 18in or so/
Rod

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steve howe
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Re: Cornish Riviera Area Group

Postby steve howe » Fri Dec 02, 2022 3:19 pm

Hi Rod,

Yes it was a marathon, still ongoing! I used the lengths available from the Stores which I think were about 0.5m the problem was that the running rail joints did not coincide with the checkrail joints owing to having to start the running rail on about 9'' of cross sleepering which was not checkrailed. Consequently I had to deal with the overlap which was the real fiddle, but we got there eventually. Hopefully the single chairs will be more straightforward!

Steve

Terry Bendall
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Re: Cornish Riviera Area Group

Postby Terry Bendall » Fri Dec 02, 2022 4:04 pm

steve howe wrote:We are now embarking on the long curved girder bridge


That is an amazing piece of work Steve and congratulations to the group on even thinking about doing it, let along getting it done!

Terry Bendall

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Re: Cornish Riviera Area Group

Postby steve howe » Sat Dec 03, 2022 12:21 am

Terry Bendall wrote:
steve howe wrote:We are now embarking on the long curved girder bridge


That is an amazing piece of work Steve and congratulations to the group on even thinking about doing it, let along getting it done!

Terry Bendall



Thanks Terry, the "group" (currently consisting of two members!) would welcome any local S4 modellers who might want to come and play trains on our trainset! :D :D

Steve

Terry Bendall
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Re: Cornish Riviera Area Group

Postby Terry Bendall » Sat Dec 03, 2022 8:01 pm

steve howe wrote:the "group" (currently consisting of two members!) would welcome any local S4 modellers who might want to come and play trains on our trainset!


In which case even more impressive. :)

Terry Bendall

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Will L
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Re: Cornish Riviera Area Group

Postby Will L » Sat Dec 31, 2022 10:08 am

You only need the You Tube reference, not the whole link. hit the quote button " to see what I've done to your post to make it work.

steve howe wrote:Further progress on the bridge sees the rails laid and 'testing' underway. The next step is to sort out the bridge girders and the deck details.







Steve

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Re: Cornish Riviera Area Group

Postby steve howe » Sat Dec 31, 2022 10:23 am

Thanks Will,

It had defeated me!

Steve :thumb

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Serjt-Dave
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Re: Cornish Riviera Area Group

Postby Serjt-Dave » Sat Dec 31, 2022 10:30 am

Enjoyable watching. Thanks for sharing.

All Best

Dave

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steve howe
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Re: Cornish Riviera Area Group

Postby steve howe » Tue Jan 03, 2023 11:44 am

The old Hornby/Triang stanchions are actually surprisingly good reproductions, I cut off the clip assembly that fits on the top bearer leaving a low raised section in the centre. This is where it will be attached to the underside of the ply deck leaving a convenient 1mm or so gap either side into which the lower flange of a length of Plastruct I beam can be slotted to form the lower girder. I am planning to try using the Wills sectional plate girder bridge kit to make the actual bridge sides, the length of each section will then determine the final spacing of the stanchions. The bottom plate will be painted to represent slimy concrete, but as there are still a few height issues to be resolved, we may be introducing some packing beneath each one before the stanchions are finally fixed in place.

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Re: Cornish Riviera Area Group

Postby Terry Bendall » Wed Jan 04, 2023 8:33 am

steve howe wrote:Further progress on the bridge sees the rails laid and 'testing' underway.


Just got around to watching the videos. Very impressive.

Terry Bendall

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steve howe
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Re: Cornish Riviera Area Group

Postby steve howe » Sat Feb 25, 2023 3:09 pm

A little more progress on the scenic side. Finally giving the blank spaces some form,
333109329_719042743285655_4105952885512946877_n.jpg


332917138_549653487144082_6771382809722064832_n.jpg


333255516_222837183480642_4899013172706820995_n.jpg

The conceit is that the lane down to the old quays was re-routed when the railway was built in the 1860s, after which the quays above the bridge fell into disuse with the opening of Watermouth Docks further downstream at the mouth of the estuary. No swing bridge was provided, so river traffic upstream of the railway bridge was restricted to small craft.

332873925_507219304704529_7078908479166078143_n.jpg


333046244_215483141009841_5388929574643093032_n.jpg

We are supposing that when the railway was constructed much of the old quays would have been obliterated leaving small fragments like this for the local fishing trade. The warehouse was salvaged from a now defunct bit of Roseladden Wharf and well over 40 years old! due a major makeover and further additions, it sits in its new space quite well! Thanks to Paul Dalton for taking the pics.

32 bridge spans to paint now....... :shock:

Steve
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Building the Station Hotel 1

Postby steve howe » Fri Mar 31, 2023 4:10 pm

When the Watermouth baseboards were rebuilt to try and standardise the sizes, we were able to add about 14" to the terminus beyond the bufferstops, this opened up the possibility of creating a bit of streetscape to put the station into some sort of context. There was also a large empty space behind the station building which Pat English clearly intended for something but left no indication of what. The logical answer would be a hotel, owned or at least leased, by the GWR. A search revealed several possible candidates but many were too ‘grand’ or just too big. Fortunately a very old photograph of the original Railway Hotel at Exeter came to light which seemed to have just the right amount of self importance but still remaining within the scope of a relatively modest country town.
1.jpg


Later pictures showed the Hotel to have been greatly extended and the original classical proportions lost. By making some educated guesses I was able to scale off the few images I could find to get a reasonable likeness of the original façade including the very attractive (and challenging!) curved front corner.
2.jpg


The elevations were set out on good quality stiff white card approximately 0.5mm thick which had a slight texture similar to watercolour paper. Once the windows, doors and other features had been drawn up, the card received a coat of shellac to both sides to stabilise it. This is an ages-old method that goes back to the days of Edward Beale and John Ahern. Thin card well shellacked creates a tough waterproof sheet that cuts very cleanly and takes paint well. Much of the rolling stock on Rev. Peter Denny’s Buckingham was built with this stuff. Artist’s shellac is getting difficult to find these days, but a good substitute is knotting sold in any good hardware shop.Once the shellac had dried for 24 hours, the windows and doors were cut out with a new blade and the outer facades sprayed with Halford’s white primer. I used this because it gave a nice flat finish with a slight texture, and also it is slightly ‘off-white’ so good for representing whitewash.
3.JPG


Windows were always going to be the big feature of this building and there are a lot of them! Club colleague Stephen Grant drew up the artwork to my measurements and had them beautifully etched. They are in three parts; the outer frame and two casements. The favoured colour scheme was to be black and white which always seems to suit these late Georgian, early Victorian buildings. The outer frames were batch sprayed with rattlecan matt black and the sashes matt white primer. The earliest photograph shows the building to have had dark painted windows which was common in Victorian times, but by the 1920’s white paint was becoming increasingly widespread. The parts were assembled with cyno-gel which allowed for a bit of time to adjust, glazing was the plastic covers from Wills plate girder bridge kits of which we have quite a few!
4.JPG


The windows were fixed with Evo-stik which I know to be pretty permanent. The curved windows presented a challenge, but in fact were quite straightforward; I decided to try curving the entire assembly, glazing and all, rather than individual components and ending up with a mis-match. The technique was just the same as for forming locomotive parts; the piece was placed on a pad of resilient foam rubber and rolled with a length of brass bar. Amazingly nothing came adrift and after a few trials, the window frame matched the curve of the wall.
6.JPG


Phew! that's the hard bit done!
7.JPG


The main facades were backed by a thick card carcass to give strength and this had the window apertures cut over-size to accommodate the outer frames. Not wishing to tempt fate, I decided not to make a backing for the curved section, reasoning that it should be strong enough with the three window frames glued in.
5.JPG


It don’t look so pretty from the rear! (but then, do any of us?) A box-work of painted card strips was built up around each window to create the reveal to the inner wall. Many modellers don’t bother to do this, but it is worth the effort because when glimpsed through the window it adds realistic depth to the building.
6a.JPG


Doors and frames were cut from thin card and sprayed matt black, but this looked a bit ‘dead’ so I added a coat of satin varnish to give a bit of relief. The inner lobby was fabricated from thin card painted suitably dull colours and given a quarry tile floor. The glazed inner doors have etched glass panels (pencil behind tracing paper) featuring a classical urn with foliage, thankfully not too visible once the rooms are closed in!
8.JPG

9.JPG


The building to the far left in the original photograph I took to be stables, fortunately it has its back to the viewer! So only the ends and rear wall were modelled. It was connected to the main hotel by a curious little single storey building which appeared to have some sort of decorative pediment. The detail in the photograph is not clear so I concocted a bit of neo-classical architecture to give it some interest. It appears to be a secondary entrance to the main building so I will give it a shallow pitched roof and a long skylight suggesting a glazed passage leading to a separate guest entrance.
10.JPG

11.JPG


Adding curtains, floors and internal walls next!
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ralphrobertson
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Re: Cornish Riviera Area Group

Postby ralphrobertson » Sat Apr 01, 2023 1:37 pm

Nice to see someone else using card to make buildings. All the buildings on Slattocks Jnc except for the church and the garage (currently being built) are made of card sealed with 'shellac'. In actual fact I have been using Sanding Sealer lately, Liberon spirit based sealer which as Steve says gives the card a lot of strength. All of Alpha Mill except the ply frame was made with card using different thicknesses and it is just so easy to work with.

I have also been doing some tests with Astonish Wood Floor Polish which comes in at £3 for a 1 litre bottle and that seems to be doing the same job for much less money! Not made a building with it yet but tried it on thin card so far.

Looking forward to seeing your building completed, it looks great.

Ralph

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David B
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Re: Building the Station Hotel 1

Postby David B » Sat Apr 01, 2023 2:09 pm

Lovely work, Steve. I have had a few pints in this hotel over the years.

steve howe wrote: . . . Artist’s shellac is getting difficult to find these days, but a good substitute is knotting sold in any good hardware shop.


For those who would like shellac, see here: https://www.cousinsuk.com/search?searchTerm=Shellac

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steve howe
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Re: Cornish Riviera Area Group

Postby steve howe » Sat Apr 01, 2023 5:53 pm

Another little play with the trainset this afternoon



The auto train seems to be running remarkably well considering there's no driver in the front cab! :D
Steve

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Neil Smith
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Re: Cornish Riviera Area Group

Postby Neil Smith » Sat Apr 01, 2023 7:08 pm

That looks great Steve! Even without the driver! (Though if you do a driver, you perhaps ought to have someone stood new the engine shed for the penultimate shot, who would just be visible across the viaduct??!)

Question - have you put superelevation on the viaduct? Certainly appears so, and I was struck by just how much this added to the realism of it.

All the best

Neil

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steve howe
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Re: Cornish Riviera Area Group

Postby steve howe » Sat Apr 01, 2023 7:24 pm

HaHa! thanks Neil,
the superelevation was not deliberate! the bridge trackbase is not yet fixed down and being cut in one piece has assumed its own superelevation. However it is not consistent and does cause problems with longer wheelbase locos, which by holding it flat does not occur, so ultimately it will be fixed flat (as the original was) but your'e right it does look the part!
Steve

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Re: Cornish Riviera Area Group

Postby steve howe » Mon Apr 03, 2023 1:08 pm

It occurred to me that we haven't really explored the potentially complicated back-story that left Watermouth with two routes and joint running of GWR and SR trains. The following might be summarised as a 'potted history' however unlikely! My knowledge of railway history in this area is hazy so I'm sure those more knowledgeable will enjoy picking it apart!
The location of watermouth in relation to other railways in the area - real and imagined!. Drawing by Pat English jpg

The main route was supposedly built by the Bristol & Exeter Railway from Taunton via Chard originally as Broad Gauge, establishing their foothold on the coast long before the LSWR began extending their system westwards. Despite the GWR having the monopoly, the LSWR pressed ahead and constructed their own branch via Axminster with the intention of obtaining running powers over the B & E's timber viaduct across the estuary to Watermouth. Although shown as GWR (red), the western route from Axminster was the LSWR's line, although the GWR exercised running powers over it to reach their isolated branchline from Axminster Road to Kilmington. The B & E by this time had been absorbed by the GWR and they cited lack of capacity over the single line bridge, thus successfully blocking the LSWR from reaching their terminus and forcing them to construct their own terminus on the north bank of the river. This was then known as Watermouth St. David's. The B & E and later GWR tended to follow a tank engines policy on the branch and so a turntable at Watermouth was not provided, nor was there room for one, causing some problems when the GWR began to introduce larger tender engines to cope with the increasing docks trade. The LSWR had always followed (some would say sensibly) a tender locomotive policy for its route, and so had installed a locomotive servicing point with a 55' turntable close to its station. Following an eventual thaw in relations between the two companies and the reconstruction of the old timber bridge with an iron one, an agreement was reached allowing LSWR (later SR) trains to run into Watermouth Town in return for the GWR's need to use the their MPD with its turntable at Watermouth St. Davids. The station was retained for use by residents living on the north bank and was eventually renamed St. David's Junction in recognition of the dividing point of the two routes.
Schematic diagram of Watermouth+numbers copy.jpg
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mkfuzzhead
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Re: Cornish Riviera Area Group

Postby mkfuzzhead » Thu Apr 27, 2023 10:33 am

A FANTASTIC CLUB ROOM VISIT & GREAT EXHIBITION - MANY THANKS!

Steve I'd just like to say thanks very much for the opportunity to visit the clubroom whilst I was down in Cornwall.

I thoroughly enjoyed the evening, especially seeing Watermouth up close. There's a lot to be said about the need to preserve 'historically significant' layouts as they provide a great opportunity to learn from those who really were the pioneers in early days of P4 as well as inspiring us to improve our own skills.

For others that may find themselves in far western parts I'd thoroughly recommend paying a visit. For those S4 members that live 'nearby' get involved; you won't regret it.

It was also perfect timing that my Cornish visit also fell when the H&FMRC Spring Exhibition was held; an excellent local show with the trade support and quality layouts, in particular Lower Rose Goods (P4), Trenance (OO), Monksbury (O) and Wadebridge (2FS). I thought that combining this with the wider modelling fraternity, planes, boats and automobiles, worked well.

Hopefully see you again when next in the area or perhaps at the AGM.

Steve

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steve howe
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Re: Cornish Riviera Area Group

Postby steve howe » Tue May 02, 2023 12:20 pm

A quick update as the next phase gets under way. The baseboards for St David's Junction were erected on Friday night for the first time in many years. The new corner board which connects the old baseboards to the bridge section was built some years ago with the benefit of more space it allowed the curve onto the bridge to be eased and provide a site for a locomotive servicing depot and turntable.
DSCF3425.JPG


The track plan is surprisingly complex!
DSCF3424.JPG


Modelling archaeology. For some reason Pat English made the point control on these boards manual using wire in tube and rodding and a GEM lever frame. Most of this has failed with age and will be replaced by Cobalt motors, however I felt it should be recorded before demolition.
DSCF3423.JPG


The platforms are life-expired and will be renewed and the entire area redesigned with LSWR style station buildings.
DSCF3421.JPG


View from the Down end, the original line followed the siding to the right, the roadbed is in place for the new section.
DSCF3422.JPG


General view up the line, the entry to the loco depot is the spur to the right.
DSCF3426.JPG


Awaiting track and final levelling up to the bridge.
DSCF3427.JPG
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mkfuzzhead
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Re: Cornish Riviera Area Group

Postby mkfuzzhead » Thu May 04, 2023 8:47 am

Looking very impressive.

Philip Hall
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Re: Cornish Riviera Area Group

Postby Philip Hall » Thu May 04, 2023 8:15 pm

That's exactly the kind of point control I shall be using. I would keep the tube as copper or brass tube for that purpose is difficult to source these days. Of course the core of the tube might be corroded - could that be why it's failed? Actually, looking close up I've just realised that it isn't 'Mercontrol' but something bigger...

Philip


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