Cellulose paint - what and where to buy

[Daddyman]

OK, so we're supposed to paint models in cellulose, and in order to do so we're supposed to go to "automotive paint suppliers". I know that Halford's aerosols are cellulose, but I want the controllability of an airbrush. I've googled automotive paint suppliers in Oxford and there don't seem to be any - just one that seems to mix aerosols, which, as said, I don't want. All I'm after is a cellulose black that I can thin to the recommended consistency with cellulose thinners; I have no need for computer colour mixing. Presumably what modellers need is un-thinned cellulose in, presumably, a tin? Does anyone know any suppliers within, say, thirty miles of Oxford? Or preferably, any on-line suppliers? Would this kind of thing work?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/304231556521 ... Sw3ZBiA4DF

Thanks in advance!

[Jol Wilkinson]

An internet search turns up several supplies, one of which may be near to you.

E.g.
https://www.craftmasterpaints.co.uk/pro ... cellulose/
https://www.advancedpaints.co.uk/produc ... ostermann/

The local automotive paint supplier to me closed but a local small car parts factor was able to supply. The one issue I found that you need to get a good quality thinner. Some of what is sold is "gun wash", great for doing exactly that but not for paint thinning to get a good finish.

Closterman paints seem to have a good range and at the quoted price, including delivery, would be worth a try.

[Daddyman]

Thank you, Jol. Do you use cellulose yourself? Do you think the paint in my ebay link is the right kind of thing? - I understand that Clostermann's is well regarded, but don't actually know if this is the right Clostermann's for our purposes.

P.S. I have Barrettine thinners. Do you have any experience of that?

[shipbadger]

If I have it correctly Craftmaster is made by H Marcel Guest who are the HMG of Railmatch paint. 1 litre of cellulose is going to leave something for your heirs if only used for modelling. The thinners you want is called 'non-bloom'. Non-bloom is more expensive than gun wash but for modelling purposes the amount used to clean the airbrush is minimal so don't bother with the Gunwash. Don't forget that cellulose paint may be good for all-metal models but could be a disaster for plastic components.

A final warning, the seals in you airbrush may not like cellulose paint/thinners and could swell or split. Advisable to have spares to hand.

Tony Comber -who once painted a Mini pickup truck in Tweed Grey cellulose with a Badger 350 airbrush. And yes it was slow, took three evenings but I had little money in those days.

[Daddyman]

If I have it correctly Craftmaster is made by H Marcel Guest who are the HMG of Railmatch paint. 1 litre of cellulose is going to leave something for your heirs if only used for modelling. The thinners you want is called 'non-bloom'. Non-bloom is more expensive than gun wash but for modelling purposes the amount used to clean the airbrush is minimal so don't bother with the Gunwash. Don't forget that cellulose paint may be good for all-metal models but could be a disaster for plastic components.

A final warning, the seals in you airbrush may not like cellulose paint/thinners and could swell or split. Advisable to have spares to hand.

Tony Comber -who once painted a Mini pickup truck in Tweed Grey cellulose with a Badger 350 airbrush. And yes it was slow, took three evenings but I had little money in those days.

That's a good point on seals, thank you.

I've had a closer look at the Barrettine label and although it doesn't say it's gunwash, it does say it can be used for cleaning guns. It also says in some conditions anti-bloom thinners will be required instead, suggesting it's not right for the job. Thanks to both of you for pointing that out as I might have gone in with a poor thinners and wouldn't have understood why I wasn't getting the promised miracle results.

A litre is a lot, yes, which is why if anyone can give me the nod on the Clostermann's, which is available in 250ml tins, I'd rather go with that.

[Winander]

Having spent an hour or more looking for cellulose paints in the colour I want, I have only found 1L tins. Advanced Paints sell a whole range of Closterman Coatings paints so I imagine the product is OK. https://www.advancedpaints.co.uk/produc ... green-221/

I have sent a message via ebay to ask if it is the same stuff as sold in 1L tins, but if I were looking for black, the kind on a taxi would suit me and I would have bought it. I sprayed a few cars in my cash-starved youth (although not with an airbrush!) and found all cellulose paint much the same. Factors such as primer colour, surface finish, dilution, thinners, pressure, spray distance and skill influence the finish much more than the paint IMHO.

[Daddyman]

Thanks, Richard. I'll maybe take a punt on it...

[Jol Wilkinson]

Thank you, Jol. Do you use cellulose yourself? Do you think the paint in my ebay link is the right kind of thing? - I understand that Clostermann's is well regarded, but don't actually know if this is the right Clostermann's for our purposes.

P.S. I have Barrettine thinners. Do you have any experience of that?

I use cellulose, gloss black from a local (now closed) supplier and LNWR carriage colours which were matched to some sample panels sprayed with PPP enamels. Those came directly from one of the car industry OE manufacturers when I dealt with them when at work.

I reckon that Closterman cellulose paint should be okay although I haven't used it. I have several airbrushes but invariably use a Badger 200 single action. haven't had any problems with seals but I do clean the brush immediately after use.

I've no experience of Barratine thinners but would look for a high quality thinner, such as the non-bloom type as Shipbadger suggests.

[Daddyman]

Thanks, Jol. I've gone for Clostermann's paint and thinners. 250ml of each has only cost £13-ish, so not much lost if it doesn't work out.

[nigelcliffe]

For Jol: If its still there, on the Sproughton Road industrial estate in Ipswich there is a branch of "CARS" a paint supplier to the auto-trade. I used them in about 2015/2016, just before I moved away, to colour match a bicycle frame (originally painted in Italy). They were happy to supply a small 50ml bottle of colour matched paint for under £10.

- Nigel

[Jol Wilkinson]

For Jol: If its still there, on the Sproughton Road industrial estate in Ipswich there is a branch of "CARS" a paint supplier to the auto-trade. I used them in about 2015/2016, just before I moved away, to colour match a bicycle frame (originally painted in Italy). They were happy to supply a small 50ml bottle of colour matched paint for under £10.

- Nigel

Hi Nigel,

thanks. CARS are still there but their website doesn't make it clear if they supply cellulose. When I next need some thinners I'll check them out.

The company I used before are no longer in business.

Jol

[Mark Tatlow]

David

I am a big fan of cellulose paint, I find it much more controllable and less prone to variability of any of the enamel paint manufacturers (barring one, which I will come to).

I get mine from either BSB in Rochester (which in searching for their website may have closed) or C&C Car Paints near Horley Surrey. Both do down to 500ml tins and will deliver (the last I had was less than £10 delivery). They can match any colour if you know how to describe it using a colour code reference and also adjust things like level of gloss/matt-ness. They can provide acrylics, but their main stock in trade remains cellulose.

I would be surprised if there weren't a supplier in Oxford, although as they really only deal with the trade, they are not always easy to find. Perhaps simply talk to your local car body shop and ask where they get their paint from?

I have heard the caution about using cellulose thinners and the possibility that they attack the seals in an airbrush. It hasn't happened to me yet and I now use cellulose thinners for everything, because it is so fast to evaporate it is quite realistic to leave paint in the airbrush and do multiple coats at a single sitting over 15-20 minutes.

The other option I have stumbled on is in fact an enamel paint. I was struggling to get an LMS crimson lake that I felt looked like crimson lake and I was pointed at the railway range of https://www.craftmasterpaints.co.uk/col ... ay-colours. This is the place that most of the 12" to the foot brigade turn to for their paints and they were prepared under the guidance of the professional painters from the BR days, so there is probably some real knowledge in their constitution. From my point of view I am much happier with thier LMS crimson lake, BR Crimson & LMS grey than the usual model suppliers, so I am sticking with them and I have yet to use any of their other colours.

The quality of the paint is also several notches above the model paint suppliers; it has wonderful depth, consistency and "sprayability". You do have to buy relatively large amounts, so it is not cheap but you will have some to pass onto your grandchildren!!

This has been painted with their Crimson....... (I'll put a better resolution picture up this evening)

thumbnail_IMG_8746.jpg

[Daddyman]

Thanks, Mark - some really good info there. The Craftsman railway range looks very promising - LNER green especially.

The Siphon (?) is very nice!

[PeteT]

That looks good Mark! I'd have thought if aimed at 12"/ft it would turn out far too dark on a model, but your experience shows otherwise.

[Mike Garwood]

All my locos and coaches are covered with cellulose. I get mine from an Ebay shop :

fiona_mcgowan123

https://www.ebay.co.uk/str/carworkshopc ... 492.l74602

Any colour, usually chosen by RAL code. £20 for 1 litre.

Stay safe

Mike

[Enigma]

to colour match a bicycle frame (originally painted in Italy). - Nigel

Colnago, De Rosa, Pinarello, Chesini, Bianchi, Wilier - or something even more exotic!?

[Winander]

They were happy to supply a small 50ml bottle of colour matched paint for under £10.

I asked Closterman (the ebay link in the first post) if they could supply BS381C 221 in 250ml and they replied " It is difficult to mix this size and get colour accuracy.". They suggested it would need to be 500ml.

Something worth knowing but I don't know if I'm being taken for a ride But what can you do?

[Daddyman]

to colour match a bicycle frame (originally painted in Italy). - Nigel

Colnago, De Rosa, Pinarello, Chesini, Bianchi, Wilier - or something even more exotic!?

That was my first question too!

[Jol Wilkinson]

They were happy to supply a small 50ml bottle of colour matched paint for under £10.

I asked Closterman (the ebay link in the first post) if they could supply BS381C 221 in 250ml and they replied " It is difficult to mix this size and get colour accuracy.". They suggested it would need to be 500ml.

Something worth knowing but I don't know if I'm being taken for a ride But what can you do?

Paint mixing machines normally work by weight (or so it was when I worked in the motor industry) and sometimes one or more constituents of the mix can be very small, so the opportunity for error increases for small volumes. That may explain their reticence to mix such a small quantity., especially as much of their business may be based on supplying paint for car repairs where colour matching is very important.

[nigelcliffe]

to colour match a bicycle frame (originally painted in Italy). - Nigel

Colnago, De Rosa, Pinarello, Chesini, Bianchi, Wilier - or something even more exotic!?

A lot rarer Cicli Barco, "mixte" frame, for a 5ft tall rider.
I think it is a one-off. I know they made one other larger mixte for someone slightly taller.



- Nigel