Glazing - your thoughts please

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Daddyman
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Glazing - your thoughts please

Postby Daddyman » Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:34 am

One of the problems of working from home over the past few months is that I've managed to progress some carriages from the shelf of shame almost to the paint booth of shame, meaning that I'll soon need to start thinking about glazing - something I haven't had to do for many years. So I'm wondering what members' choices are for (a) good suppliers of unscratched glazing material, and (b) glue to fix it to painted etched brass - Evo? Limonene? Canopy glue?

Grateful for any suggestions!

williambarter
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Re: Glazing - your thoughts please

Postby williambarter » Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:11 am

These have worked for me:
a) Almost any clear plastic sheet, but cut into strips and dipped in Johnson's Kleer, and hung up to dry for a day.
b) EverBuild Stick2 hard plastic adhesive. It does not string. It really really does not string. I bought mine from a local builder's merchant, but it can be found on the internet.
William

DougN
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Re: Glazing - your thoughts please

Postby DougN » Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:15 am

Daddyman, I have used clear styrene from Ever green (it comes in a pack with tissue between each sheet) with a Testors Glue and window (3515C) this is a flexible glue that holds the styrene. It also drys clear. I have used it a number of times on D&S NER clerestories I built a couple of years ago!
Doug
Still not doing enough modelling

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David B
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Re: Glazing - your thoughts please

Postby David B » Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:54 am

I use glass coverslips wherever possible held in with small dabs of with No More Nails, which I make sure go round the edge to form a lip for the glass to rest on. I glaze windows on the flat, not upright, and wait for them to dry before doing any more.

tmcsean
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Re: Glazing - your thoughts please

Postby tmcsean » Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:16 am

For years I've used Wizard Models glazing and found it pretty well perfect. You can score, snap and file it pretty much like plasticard and it doesn't scratch or craze at the sight of a bladed article. I've just finished a set of glazing for a SEF flatiron, and while it wasn't exactly fun nor did I end up with a huge pile of shards.

Tony

billbedford
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Re: Glazing - your thoughts please

Postby billbedford » Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:40 am

I use 0.2 mm polycarbonate sheet. It scores well on a Silhouette machine and doesn't scratch easily. On recent kits, I've incorporated physical locations for the glazing.
Bill Bedford
Mousa Models
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Daddyman
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Re: Glazing - your thoughts please

Postby Daddyman » Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:42 am

Many thanks, chaps. Lots of nice ideas there and I'm tempted to try them all. I have five carriages to do, so could try all the methods. That way none of you feels left out!

Source please Bill?

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David Thorpe
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Re: Glazing - your thoughts please

Postby David Thorpe » Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:09 am

I've tried a number of adhesives, but found Canopy Glue best. It looks just like PVA, doesn't string, dries clear and if any gets on the glazing it can be removed (using a cocktail stick) without leaving a mark. I was initially concerned that it wouldn't securely fix the glzing to brass, but it does. Deluxe Materials do a similar product.

DT

Daddyman
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Re: Glazing - your thoughts please

Postby Daddyman » Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:36 am

David Thorpe wrote:I've tried a number of adhesives, but found Canopy Glue best. It looks just like PVA, doesn't string, dries clear and if any gets on the glazing it can be removed (using a cocktail stick) without leaving a mark. I was initially concerned that it wouldn't securely fix the glzing to brass, but it does. Deluxe Materials do a similar product.

DT

Another one to try, thanks David.

David.

billbedford
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Re: Glazing - your thoughts please

Postby billbedford » Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:48 am

Daddyman wrote:Source please Bill?


I get mine from eBay, It looks like it comes on big rolls and suppliers cut up any excess they have into paper sized sheets and sell them on that way.
Bill Bedford
Mousa Models
http://www.mousa.biz

Daddyman
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Re: Glazing - your thoughts please

Postby Daddyman » Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:17 am

billbedford wrote:
Daddyman wrote:Source please Bill?


I get mine from eBay, It looks like it comes on big rolls and suppliers cut up any excess they have into paper sized sheets and sell them on that way.


Thank you!

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Mark Tatlow
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Re: Glazing - your thoughts please

Postby Mark Tatlow » Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:30 am

Hi David,

I use the glazing material from Wizard Models which is moderately thick, circa 0.8mm I would say without actually measuring it.

I secure it with PVA and as David says, I lay the coach on its side for a little to allow the glue to properly tack. If there is any stray glue on the glazing material, it can be removed with a cocktail stick whilst it is still tacky or when it has dried (although if there really is a big chunk, the latter can be difficult. The glazing material is easily anti-scratch enough to take this without damage.

I am pretty certain that the material is perspex and I do mean to get some but a bit thinner.

I used to use microscope cover strips but this does break in my clumsy hands over time, so have moved away from it!

It takes a long time to do a coach unless you smack it in as one (where it is more difficult to get it to sit tight to the rear of the windows); so settle down for some low thinking modelling!


Mark
Mark Tatlow

Daddyman
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Re: Glazing - your thoughts please

Postby Daddyman » Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:10 pm

Thanks, Mark!

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Neil Smith
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Re: Glazing - your thoughts please

Postby Neil Smith » Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:52 pm

I am following this with interest, with my first carriage getting close to needing glazing. (OK still needs lining out, and for a prewar Midland Railway coach that is not a job for the faint-hearted, which is why it has been somewhat put off for the last few months....)

Mark and David B - two questions about using glass coverslips: firstly David have you had Mark's breakages problem? And secondly, looking online the slips appear to be less than 0.2mm thick, so are pretty flimsy - do you have to find one of the right size (different sizes are available) or is there a way of cutting them?

I was interested to see on one of the Southwark Bridge videos a slightly throw-away remark about one rake of passing carriages that they had been glazed with "microscope slides". Now, that might have been a slip of the tongue, but a slide would certainly be more robust than a slip... Any thoughts anyone on using thicker glass?

Certainly the commentary in the Southwark Bridge video highlighted the reflection thanks to using glass, and how this brought the carriage alive - and I certainly thought it did look superior. (But I have not yet started fiddling with tiny shards of glass, so I may soon be very happy to reduce my aspirations to something a bit easier and safer to work with!)

And for the non-glass adherents, which one gives the most glass-like look please? Or do other factors like cost/ease of cutting/scratch resistance/reluctance to fog if close to solvent, etc. trump appearance?

All the best

Neil

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Mark Tatlow
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Re: Glazing - your thoughts please

Postby Mark Tatlow » Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:03 pm

Hi Neil

I suspect that the coaches on Southwark Bridge have actually been glazed with microscope cover strips but I will let others that know this to confirm.

I am ashamed to say that I am presuming that David is not as heavy handed as me...............!!!

Yes, they are only 0.2mm thick and therefore they are fragile (not flimsy, they are perfectly rigid but they do shatter). You don't need to get them to the right size, that would be nigh on impossible. They can be cut with a diamond - an old record stylus is what I use.

The important thing is to trust yourself and only score with the diamond once, then lift the slip into a flat surface with a straight edge (I use my scale rule). Then align the score (which you are unlikely to be able to see) on the edge and push down on the free end. Once you get the hang of it, the casualty rate is acceptable - a bit less so when you are starting.

I think the modern perspex that I use gives a good impression of the glass; give it a try as it is a whole lot easier!!
Mark Tatlow

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David Thorpe
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Re: Glazing - your thoughts please

Postby David Thorpe » Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:38 pm

I have to confess that I've had no joy with coverslips which seem to shatter as soon as I get near them - I suspectr I'm a bit heavy handed and maybe need a more appropriate scoring implement. I suspect that coverslips give the best finish, but there's not much in it between them and decent quality perspex.

As for gluing, I hold the glazing material in position with a series of metal toothless crocodile-type hairclips - they don't seem to damage to coach sides.

DT

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David B
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Re: Glazing - your thoughts please

Postby David B » Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:58 pm

Neil Smith wrote:Mark and David B - two questions about using glass coverslips: firstly David have you had Mark's breakages problem? And secondly, looking online the slips appear to be less than 0.2mm thick, so are pretty flimsy - do you have to find one of the right size (different sizes are available) or is there a way of cutting them?


There are breakages but the more you do, the fewer you break and sometimes, the broken ones can be made in to smaller windows. There are larger coverslips, a couple of inches long, which can in some circumstances glaze more than one window in one go, something I find attractive! Having supposed to have been a biologist in an earlier life, I have always had a supply of coverslips but they are available through Ebay and Amazon. You can even get round ones.

As for cutting them, you need a firm surface, I suggest no softer than a (green or blue) cutting mat. I use a small piece of MDF. Many years ago I bought a diamond-tipped scribe like a pen which was advertised as a security device whereby you could put your postcode on objects. I have used this, gently scribing once with negligible pressure, then gently pushing back along the scribed line. The slip more often breaks along the line than not. As with all skills, practise, practise, practise. I keep the off-cuts as you never know when you might need one just that size. :)

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Will L
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Re: Glazing - your thoughts please

Postby Will L » Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:34 pm

David Thorpe wrote:I've tried a number of adhesives, but found Canopy Glue best. It looks just like PVA....

That's because it is just a fairly thick sort of PVA. Ordinary wood glues will do the same job.
I've never tried no more nails., its probably time I did

Will

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Neil Smith
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Re: Glazing - your thoughts please

Postby Neil Smith » Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:45 pm

Thank you David and Mark - very much food for thought, and I feel another experiment coming on!

All the best

Neil

Philip Hall
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Re: Glazing - your thoughts please

Postby Philip Hall » Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:50 pm

I use clear acrylic sheet which I got from Charvo after reading about it - and them - in an article by Simon de Souza in MRJ years ago. It is very clear, is supplied with a protection film on both sides, and can be scored and snapped like styrene sheet. It files cleanly, and my current favourite glue is a Loctite all purpose adhesive which is a bit like UHU but doesn’t skin so quickly.

I don’t know if Charvo are still trading. My stuff came in sheet and strip form for carriage glazing, in various thicknesses.

Philip

Daddyman
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Re: Glazing - your thoughts please

Postby Daddyman » Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:11 am

Philip Hall wrote:I use clear acrylic sheet which I got from Charvo after reading about it - and them - in an article by Simon de Souza in MRJ years ago. It is very clear, is supplied with a protection film on both sides, and can be scored and snapped like styrene sheet. It files cleanly, and my current favourite glue is a Loctite all purpose adhesive which is a bit like UHU but doesn’t skin so quickly.

I don’t know if Charvo are still trading. My stuff came in sheet and strip form for carriage glazing, in various thicknesses.

Philip

Thanks, Philip. This might be the people: https://www.charvo.co.uk/charvo-finishi ... -surfaces/
However, it's not clear which of their acrylic sheets are the right ones - possibly "Precision Cast Acrylic Sheet"?

Paulhb
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Re: Glazing - your thoughts please

Postby Paulhb » Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:43 am

Eileens sell clear styrene PETG sheet which apparently has the same transmission properties as glass.

https://www.eileensemporium.com/materia ... petg-sheet

Regards

Paul Bannerman

Daddyman
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Re: Glazing - your thoughts please

Postby Daddyman » Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:09 am

Paulhb wrote:Eileens sell clear styrene PETG sheet which apparently has the same transmission properties as glass.

https://www.eileensemporium.com/materia ... petg-sheet

Regards

Paul Bannerman


Thanks! Looks like it might be a bit thick though? - the thinnest is 1mm.

Philip Hall
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Re: Glazing - your thoughts please

Postby Philip Hall » Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:05 pm

Hi David,

Those are the people. I think it must be the precision stuff because I have some 0.5mm, but bought a long time ago. I think one of their staff was a modeller hence some sheet being supplied in strips suitable for carriage glazing.

I like the thought of this non string adhesive and must give it a try. Stringy glue is a real pain!

Philip

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Re6/6
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Re: Glazing - your thoughts please

Postby Re6/6 » Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:59 pm

Squires Tools sell 0.5mm stuff.
916-420 Clear PETG Sheet .020" (0.50mm)...................... £1.99

I favour, like David B, the use of 0.15 mm coverslips which are readily available on ebay as are cheap scribers. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BNIB-EXPO-72 ... SwrmBfTh77

I get around a 50% success rate by using just the weight of the scriber lightly held. There's nothing that looks like more than glass than real glass!
John


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