Best Glue for the job!

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Will L
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Re: Best Glue for the job!

Postby Will L » Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:30 pm

Le Corbusier wrote:can anyone suggest a glue to bond blue or pink styrofoam boards together that is readily availble in the UK .... one that would give a permanent bond, :thumb

PVA works.

DougN
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Re: Best Glue for the job!

Postby DougN » Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:17 am

There is a acrylic based No more nails here. I have used it a bit which avoids the issues of solvents and the foam. which I have witnessed a few times. I tend to use a Knauf board which is orangy pink... not sure how else to describe the colour :roll: This does tend to stick the foam rather well I have found.
Doug
Still not doing enough modelling

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Le Corbusier
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Re: Best Glue for the job!

Postby Le Corbusier » Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:38 am

Will L wrote:
Le Corbusier wrote:can anyone suggest a glue to bond blue or pink styrofoam boards together that is readily availble in the UK .... one that would give a permanent bond, :thumb

PVA works.


I have tried PVA with mixed results ... It bonds ok'ish around the edges ... but with any board of size remains wet indefinately, and can therefore delaminate.
Tim Lee

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Le Corbusier
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Re: Best Glue for the job!

Postby Le Corbusier » Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:41 am

Has anyone experimented with this kind of product ... I think for bonding thin layers to walls etc

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Metylan-44500- ... 0ZB4B5SPHX
Tim Lee

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Re6/6
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Re: Best Glue for the job!

Postby Re6/6 » Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:59 am

Le Corbusier wrote:can anyone suggest a glue to bond blue or pink styrofoam boards together that is readily availble in the UK .... one that would give a permanent bond, :thumb


Tim, I've been successfully using 'Gripfill' (non-solvent) for some years for gluing pink and blue foam and also for off-cuts of 'Celotex' that I use for land contours. It dries overnight and It also works as a filler. It's generally available from builders merchants, Screwfix, B & Q, and Ebay from around £3.
Gripfill non-solvent.jpg
Gripfill non-solvent.jpg (4.21 KiB) Viewed 980 times
John

BrockleyAndrew
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Re: Best Glue for the job!

Postby BrockleyAndrew » Sun Dec 27, 2020 10:11 pm

Hello Will, I've searched back through 6 pages of your posts on various threads but can't find the one I remember - I think on one thread, maybe on soldering you mentioned that many years ago you weren't so keen on soldering and experimented with glues for metal? If I've got that wrong please correct me. I was interested to hear what you did, if it worked, what went wrong and what you learned through your experience. I'm interested in the longevity of gluing experiences. I can see that glue over time might fail. Given that I'm keen on plastic chairs on wood and have read on this forum about difficulties with slide chairs and metal rail location on plastic slide chairs and the epoxy/cyano debate I wonder what your view might be on metal/plastic/wood interface. I was prompted to ask you this from the recent thread on where we are going as P4 and you were defending metal kits, and also by the mention of card and shellac, which is described as no longer used, which I'm guessing it's not, but coming from a museum background it seems to me that paper and shellac will most probably last longer than experimental plastics. I've also read many track forum topics that talk about differentials of thermal expansion for different materials. Sorry, my question is vague I know. But since we mix materials and try to keep them together..... perhaps I'm asking what glues last or do they all go brittle and fail?

Many thanks in advance to you or others that may have a view.

Andrew

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Will L
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Re: Best Glue for the job!

Postby Will L » Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:08 pm

BrockleyAndrew wrote:Hello Will, I've searched back through 6 pages of your posts on various threads but can't find the one I remember - I think on one thread, maybe on soldering you mentioned that many years ago you weren't so keen on soldering and experimented with glues for metal? If I've got that wrong please correct me. I was interested to hear what you did, if it worked, what went wrong and what you learned through your experience. I'm interested in the longevity of gluing experiences. I can see that glue over time might fail. Given that I'm keen on plastic chairs on wood and have read on this forum about difficulties with slide chairs and metal rail location on plastic slide chairs and the epoxy/cyano debate I wonder what your view might be on metal/plastic/wood interface. I was prompted to ask you this from the recent thread on where we are going as P4 and you were defending metal kits, and also by the mention of card and shellac, which is described as no longer used, which I'm guessing it's not, but coming from a museum background it seems to me that paper and shellac will most probably last longer than experimental plastics. I've also read many track forum topics that talk about differentials of thermal expansion for different materials. Sorry, my question is vague I know. But since we mix materials and try to keep them together..... perhaps I'm asking what glues last or do they all go brittle and fail?
Hi Andrew,
I think what you are possibly remembering is this post, which was a reply to one of David B's posts and thus not in one of my own threads.
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=6583&p=69941&hilit=superglue#p69941

The truth is I would now always solder if possible, however when started assembling metal kits, this would be late sixties, early seventies, I had yet to learned to solder, so I learned how to use glues first and there are always occasions when you have no other choice. I started off with 24 hour epoxy, but 5 minute epoxy and superglue appeared at about that time and I graduated through them making a number of vehicle on the way. Most of these still remain firmly stuck together so I think you can be happy about their longevity. The exception was a white metal J72 kit assembled with an early 5 minute epoxy which crystallised after a couple of years and fell apart. I think the glue manufacture has fixed that problem since.

For attaching metal to plastic I prefer Superglue. Superglues can be a bit tricky. You need to get the conditions right, surfaces CLAEN, the joint needs to be a close fit and use just enough glue and no more, but when you've got the knack they work very well. Epoxies are certainly easier to use, will work when the joint fit is far from perfect but are a bit inclined to get messy.

Your query looks track orientated, and when attaché plastic components to wood, pastic solvents are the best bet but surprisingly PVA will do for applying cosmetic half chairs.

I think shellac on card disappeared because its real use was for reinforcing/holding together fine detail cut from card. The unsuitability of card for modelling such details is the issue(Glassing bars and coach panelling come to mind) and was much easier to produce them from plastic card, even if the result was still a bit brittle and inclined to die of old age if not protected with paint. Then came etched brass which was far better than either.

Can't say I've ever been much troubled by thermal expansion driven issues, although it could explain the occasional need to reattach the gutters (plastic) to the valences (etched brass) on Knutsford East's station canopies. It is probably a good rule to stick to one material for the main body of the model and only use other materials for details. That said I have brass coaches with plastic roofs, but these are removable and so are bolted not stuck down and thus free to move slightly.

One last thing, that article in the modeller mentioned in that post I refereed to. It goes into detail on making superglue work. That was the first thing I ever had published and I have long since lost the manuscript, I would be very grateful if somebody who has the Railway modeller indexes for the period could track it down and let me know which issue and possible a copy?
Last edited by Will L on Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

Enigma
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Re: Best Glue for the job!

Postby Enigma » Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:05 pm

I think shellac was recomended for use as a damp proofer, especially BITD when few houses had central heating. It certainly made card a lot stronger as well. These days I use a Ronseal wood hardener when modelling in card which mostly tends to be for building construction, often using a hybrid card and plasticard combo for walls. A film of Evostik on the hardened card allowed to dry off and then Limonene on the plastic sheet (as it tends to stay liquid longer) to attach it and allow some positioning.

Philip Hall
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Re: Best Glue for the job!

Postby Philip Hall » Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:47 pm

Given that they glue aeroplanes and cars together these days I think longevity of those adhesives is proven, although I guess they’re not available to us model makers.

I have found that epoxies vary in how well they stick to plastic; my favourite Plastic Padding Super Steel is quite thick and doesn’t seem to stick to plastic quite as well as the thinner clear Devcon Five Minute Epoxy. Thus Devcon is my preference for gluing steel tyres to plastic wheel centres. The Devcon also seems better suited to the slightly bendy plastic used for driving wheel centres.

When I glue cosmetic frames to RTR chassis, I always use Loctite Superglue Gel for the little spacer pads. It grabs almost immediately so little room for error. I use Hafixs a lot and this works well on metal and plastic. With all these superglues (and some of the epoxies) I find a wipe over with a brush full of Deluxe Materials Tricky-Stick improves adhesion.

Finally, about thirty years ago I was repairing a kit built engine, part sheet metal and part whitemetal, and it was glued together with what looked like Araldite. This obviously came from the time when it took two days or so to fully go off. It was still well stuck to the metal, although it did seem to have become a little rubbery.

Philip

DougN
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Re: Best Glue for the job!

Postby DougN » Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:05 am

Phillip, the glues that are used in planes and cars tend to be the engineered variety. If you go through the locktite site you will find they are all available to the public. The issue is the volume package that needs to be purchased ad also they have a used by date. I can remember having to help a work mate with an issue of sticking stainless steel to glass. Let's just say the item kept falling off but as it was a display suite it didn't have a long life span. After the 4 th time it was put in a cupboard!
Doug
Still not doing enough modelling

BrockleyAndrew
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Re: Best Glue for the job!

Postby BrockleyAndrew » Tue Dec 29, 2020 4:35 pm

Thanks Will, yes that was the post I had tried to locate! And thank you for the information re various glues and your experience over the years, very helpful. Interesting to hear PVA will/can do for fitting cosmetic chairs in place. I haven't ever tried shellac on paper for models but I do like using mountboard offcuts. I'm trying gluing rail to a templot printout on card at the moment as a quick experiment.

Andrew


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