Best Glue for the job!

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DaveHarris
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Best Glue for the job!

Postby DaveHarris » Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:06 pm

Can anyone suggest a good glue(impact/2part epoxy/cynao) which will hold broken plastic items, small brass/ns parts to the hard plastic used by the likes of Hornby/Bachmann for their loco bodies?

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Flymo748
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Re: Best Glue for the job!

Postby Flymo748 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:33 pm

DaveHarris wrote:Can anyone suggest a good glue(impact/2part epoxy/cynao) which will hold broken plastic items, small brass/ns parts to the hard plastic used by the likes of Hornby/Bachmann for their loco bodies?


I've just fitted brass castings onto that Airfix 48xx body I'm upgrading over there ---> and I've had good results with traditional Araldite 2-part epoxy.

Not the 5-minute rapid stuff, as I find it never stops being just a little tacky and rubbery, and that isn't always what I want.

Cyano may be a solution, and can be neater to apply, but it is brittle. So it works well for some things, but I don't trust it for anything that is likely to be knocked.

HTH
Paul
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barhamd
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Re: Best Glue for the job!

Postby barhamd » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:10 pm

One thing to consider is the quality of the fit and degree of filling you need the glue to do. If you have any gap then epoxy is far better at filling than cyano. That said if you want to make cyano 'fill' then I have seen people using baking powder in the joint to make it produce a solid fill. Also I find that the different types of cyano really are different - the 'thin' grades are great at sticking two very closely fitting pieces, the thick grades better where there is a gap.

David

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Steve Carter
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Re: Best Glue for the job!

Postby Steve Carter » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:11 pm

I have used ‘Tricky Stick’ that helps cyano to bond difficult shiny plastics such as that used by Hornby/Bachmann. See https://deluxematerials.co.uk/products/tricky-stick
Steve Carter

Philip Hall
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Re: Best Glue for the job!

Postby Philip Hall » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:18 pm

I would endorse Steve’s recommendation of ‘Tricky Stick’ which I also use on plastic when using epoxy. My usual choice of cyano is Hafixs, obtainable online, but I have also had good results with Elmers Krazy Glue, which I bought in the US last year when needing to repair something. I have just ordered what looks like the same stuff from Amazon, and it’s coming from the US despite being only £4.83 post free! When I bond dummy plastic frames to a chassis block I use Loctite Gel Superglue.

For broken plastic parts I usually try Plastic Weld or Mek-Pak first, reinforcing the joint with a pin perhaps, with a small dollop of epoxy or cyano for extra safety.

Epoxy: I would be lost without the yellow tubes of Plastic Padding Epoxy Super Steel. It’s a five minute epoxy; black hardener and grey adhesive which becomes a thick paste. It generally stays where it is put unlike some of the more runny varieties, and it also is not at all brittle, unlike Araldite Rapid which is very poor in this respect - at least it was when I last used it. Another useful property is that you can squeeze an inch or so onto some sacrificial glossy card (cereal boxes etc., David Dornom’s idea) and is still usable after even a few days. It skins slightly and usable adhesive is underneath. I keep it at the back of a bench so that it’s always handy and there is much less chance of tipping it over. Saves time in opening tubes if I just need a little amount. It can be sanded so it can be used as a filler, and a dollop will secure coupling hooks, pipes and the like.

Where Super Steel is not so good is if you need something thinner (like for gluing tyres onto plastic centres) and here I use five minute Devcon which is clear, very sticky and strong. Because it’s thinner it can wander a bit more before it goes off. I only use full strength Araldite where mechanical strength is the most important thing and where I can hold the two items together for a few hours until the stuff goes off; it might look thick and gloopy but it has zero grip until curing starts.

None of these cyano or epoxy adhesives are brilliant with plastics, but with care and reinforcement/pinning pretty strong joints can be made. I wish we could find out the exact brew of superglue that Hornby and Bachmann use because the stuff is tenacious!

Philip
Last edited by Philip Hall on Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Paul Townsend
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Re: Best Glue for the job!

Postby Paul Townsend » Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:07 am

Lots of new-to-me products mentioned near here. Thanks to all for recommendations.

Could I make a plea that when an adhesive is described , users tell us what the shelf life is.

Many modern adhesives work brilliantly but go off PDQ in my experience so prove to be expensive.

Philip Hall
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Re: Best Glue for the job!

Postby Philip Hall » Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:02 am

Not sure about shelf lives because I get through quite a bit of the stuff described. I settled on these many years ago and have seen no need to shop around further. Ivan Smith told me about Hafixs a long time ago and it’s good for even slightly bendy plastics; I use it to attach detail parts to RTR models and the like.

The only thing I have noticed recently is that one bottle of the Hafixs went thick towards the end a bit more quickly than usual and the bottles now are a bit stiffer to squeeze. I squeeze a little out onto a plastic lid (from things like Pringles and Bisto) and pick it up with a piece of wire stuck in a wooden handle. My new workshop in the garden can be a little warm sometimes, but then I used to keep these glues in my old loft workshop and it got really hot in there in the summer, so I don’t think it can be temperature that affects it. For this reason I would advise against buying bigger bottles in case it does go off - 20g is more than enough so I buy a couple of bottles at a time.

The epoxy left out on the piece of card does skin a bit more quickly in the summer. My method could be possibly said to be a bit more wasteful, but the time saved by not having to open tubes each time I need some is valuable.

I have recently acquired some tubes of contact adhesive from RS and Loctite, the latter having a longer setting time than usual with this type of glue. I am hopeful (because I haven’t tried it yet) that this will be better than modern UHU, for example, which skins almost as soon as it comes out of the tube these days. No doubt a product of the lack of solvent within. These last two, by the way, were ordered online simply to bulk out an order to get free shipping. The penalty for this was that they came with 25 A4 pages of Health and Safety information which probably doubled the shipping weight. Full of useful stuff like which animals and fish would react badly to them, and that if I wished to dispose of the plastic bubble and card packaging I should employ a specialist disposal contractor!

Philip
Last edited by Philip Hall on Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:31 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Steve Carter
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Re: Best Glue for the job!

Postby Steve Carter » Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:08 am

Another vote for Harfixs cyano, well it was Philip Hall that put me onto it :D

Check it out here http://www.hafixs.co.uk

One recommendation I would make is to also get some Harfixs Glue Remover. Why do I suggest this? Don't ask silly questions!

Good sticking, and unsticking if you need to, everyone :thumb
Steve Carter

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Will L
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Re: Best Glue for the job!

Postby Will L » Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:47 pm

When cyanoacrylates first arrived they were definitely temperature sensitive and didn't have a very good shelf either. I got in the habit of keeping it in the fridge. I suspect the modern stuff is better but I still keep it in cool, my current bottle has been in there for some years as I don't use glues much. It still works well when I need it. You can tell when its on it way as it goes thick.

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Paul Townsend
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Re: Best Glue for the job!

Postby Paul Townsend » Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:03 pm

Will L wrote:When cyanoacrylates first arrived they were definitely temperature sensitive and didn't have a very good shelf either. I got in the habit of keeping it in the fridge. I suspect the modern stuff is better but I still keep it in cool, my current bottle has been in there for some years as I don't use glues much. It still works well when I need it. You can tell when its on it way as it goes thick.



So now we know of a cyano with decent shelf life. I wonder which it is ? :D

I had some Hafix, bought at a Model Engineer Exhibiton...quite expensive as no tiny tubes.
Kept in the fridge, used once and then gorn orff :o
£5 a drop.

Philip Hall
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Re: Best Glue for the job!

Postby Philip Hall » Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:15 pm

I couldn’t keep my cyano in the ‘fridge as it’s in the kitchen and my workshop is at the bottom of the garden! I use Hafixs almost daily and probably about one bottle every six months or so. Only the most recent bottle has got unusably thick, the first time. It’s particularly good for gluing Unimat drive belts back together when they break. They break again, of course, but I can keep gluing for several repairs.

Philip

dal-t
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Re: Best Glue for the job!

Postby dal-t » Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:36 pm

Has anyone yet tried the new MIG/AK/Colle 21 black cyano? Since I can't seem to avoid applying oversized blobs of superglue, and hate the white mounds that result when it dries, I'm about to order some (unless anyone tells me its absolute rubbish and i ought to stick with the standard stuff - in which case I'll probably have to get some of those pinpoint applicators instead).
David L-T

bécasse
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Re: Best Glue for the job!

Postby bécasse » Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:46 pm

dal-t wrote:Has anyone yet tried the new MIG/AK/Colle 21 black cyano? Since I can't seem to avoid applying oversized blobs of superglue, and hate the white mounds that result when it dries, I'm about to order some (unless anyone tells me its absolute rubbish and i ought to stick with the standard stuff - in which case I'll probably have to get some of those pinpoint applicators instead).

I just put the smallest drop that I can manage to squeeze out of the bottle on to a scrap piece of shiny plastic and then use a household pin to transfer the amount I want to the right place. I did try cutting the head off a household pin, which is easy enough, and then mounting it in a pin vice for easy handling, but found that in practice I could handle just the pin itself without any problems.

DaveHarris
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Re: Best Glue for the job!

Postby DaveHarris » Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:02 pm

Guys,
Thanks for the responses. I will give the longer setting Araldite and Hafixs a go, and read up on using Tricky Stick in combination with an epoxy.
I see that Hafix appear to do a 'kit' of the glues and 'additions', might enquire to see if this is a cheaper option to get a selection. Ive also emailed Bachmann to see if they will give out info on the glues they use... if you dont ask? (waste of time asking Hornby as they dont answer questions put to their helpline).

Philip Hall
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Re: Best Glue for the job!

Postby Philip Hall » Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:35 pm

I think that ‘Tricky Stick’ is really sold for use with cyano - it’s just that I use it with epoxy as it seems to help.

Philip

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Will L
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Re: Best Glue for the job!

Postby Will L » Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:54 am

Paul Townsend wrote:So now we know of a cyano with decent shelf life. I wonder which it is ? :D


Its Vitalbond CA Super thin. But I don't think it is notably different from other super thins I've had in the past.

Super thin note. Cyano is not a good gap filler as its hard and gets brittle in big chunks. If you've got gaps use epoxy. All the advice on getting a blob out of a tube onto a sacrificial surface and then applying it to the joint using a thin pointed object is good (I use a very small jewellers screwdriver). This is because one of the secrets of successful Cyano use it not putting too much on the joint and too much can be not very much at all.

The other is making sure the joint is CLEAN.

Philip Hall wrote:I couldn’t keep my cyano in the ‘fridge as it’s in the kitchen and my workshop is at the bottom of the garden!

Yes you can, get it out when you going to need it and put it back at the end of the session. It will still spend more than half its life in the fridge. The "Kitchen Table" I usually work at isn't actually in the kitchen, or anywhere near the Fridge, either.

Attentively get a drinks fridge for your workshop, I'm sure you could find other things to put in it.

Philip Hall
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Re: Best Glue for the job!

Postby Philip Hall » Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:42 pm

Will,

I like idea of a drinks ‘fridge, but space for it is another thing! But I’d never remember to take the glue out of the kitchen every day...

Philip

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Le Corbusier
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Re: Best Glue for the job!

Postby Le Corbusier » Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:43 pm

Tim Lee

Philip Hall
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Re: Best Glue for the job!

Postby Philip Hall » Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:12 pm

Thanks Tim. Thinking about it!

Philip

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David Thorpe
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Re: Best Glue for the job!

Postby David Thorpe » Thu Jul 09, 2020 2:08 pm

Through ebay I've just bought a 20g bottle of "industrial strength" Wayside Standard Viscosity superglue for all of £2.49 including postage (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/220946546258#rwid). Initial tests suggest that it does precisely what it says it does. I've now popped it into the fridge until it's next required.

DT.

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David Thorpe
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Re: Best Glue for the job!

Postby David Thorpe » Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:06 am

I've been very pleased with the Wayside cyano I bought three weeks ago. I've used it quite a lot and it has performed every bit as well as one would hope. Equally importantly, in spite of considerable use the nozzle remains clear and has not clogged. At £2.49 delivered as opposed to Hafixs £14.20 for the same amount, it seems a pretty good deal. In fact, I've now ordered their Industrial strength thick gel cyano (£3.19 for 20ml, delivered).

DT

Enigma
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Re: Best Glue for the job!

Postby Enigma » Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:04 pm

Hmm, 5 minute epoxy. My experience is that it is a little better than useless. Mind you, I suppose I've only used 2 varieties, the first being a 'pound store' variety that I was given and the second the Deluxe Materials one. Neither really 'went off' in use and the DL Mats one completely failed to hold the part being stuck and subsequently peeled of like stale cream cheese. I am sure I mixed them properly in both cases. Back to good old 'proper' Araldite, applied as the last thing to be done in an evening and set adequately by morning.

As for superglue, never been a real fan of the stuff TBH. I know it can work but again I've had simple failures when trying to stick anything 'of size'. OK for lamp brackets, wires through holes etc. but - and I know this will make many people shake their heads - I prefer EvoStik, applied straight from the tube with the end of a cocktail stick, wire etc. If it's good enough for Geoff Kent then it's good enough etc. etc. Trouble is I can't seem to be able to buy any locally (in tubes that is rather than tins). B&Q don't stock it and don't have the Unibond alternative, Wickes haven't even got their own version and the Royal Mail won't handle it (allegedly).

For applying small amounts of glue I often use the tips of broken sections of piercing saw blade. Probably because there seem to be so many of them littering the bench..................

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David Thorpe
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Re: Best Glue for the job!

Postby David Thorpe » Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:21 pm

Enigma wrote:Trouble is I can't seem to be able to buy any locally (in tubes that is rather than tins). B&Q don't stock it and don't have the Unibond alternative, Wickes haven't even got their own version and the Royal Mail won't handle it (allegedly)


If you can't get tubes of it locally, Amazon will send you one, as will a variety of ebay sellers. So will Halffords and Homebase. Places like The Range may well stock it. It's certainly still available!

DT

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Le Corbusier
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Re: Best Glue for the job!

Postby Le Corbusier » Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:12 pm

can anyone suggest a glue to bond blue or pink styrofoam boards together that is readily availble in the UK .... one that would give a permanent bond, :thumb
Tim Lee

David Knight
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Re: Best Glue for the job!

Postby David Knight » Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:13 pm

I’m not sure if LePage is available in the UK but their product “No More Nails” does the job. Barring that adhesive caulk should do the job, just make sure you get something for indoor use as the outdoor stuff has an awful pong. :?

HTH

David


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