Pin Chucks

Includes workshop practice, painting and weathering, model photography etc.
User avatar
John Bateson
Posts: 709
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:39 pm

Pin Chucks

Postby John Bateson » Tue Jul 12, 2016 1:52 pm

I am becoming increasingly frustrated with the pin chucks or pin vices on offer in the market, even from reputable suppliers. The problem lies in their inability after some use to hold a drill bit as large as 0.45 mm without slipping.
Can anybody recomment a really, really good make so I can empty my pin chuck/vice drawer?
These are for hand drilling, not in a lathe.
John
Slaving away still on GCR stuff ...
Avoiding the soaps ...
https://www.greatcentralmodels.co.uk

User avatar
David B
Posts: 1300
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 5:30 pm

Re: Pin Chucks

Postby David B » Tue Jul 12, 2016 2:22 pm

I use an Archimedes drill (without the spring) for anything under 1mm. I have a brass(y) one I got from Squires which works well and a better one I picked up in a second hand tool shop. The smallest drill I have used with them is 0.3mm. I have found I break far fewer bits now I use the Archimedes.

Archimedes drill.jpg
Archimedes drill.jpg (21.35 KiB) Viewed 9052 times

Also from Eileen's.

For drills over 1mm, I use the ball type of pin chuck with changeable collets, which is very comfortable, again, from Squires.

Ball tool holder.jpg
Ball tool holder.jpg (20.86 KiB) Viewed 9052 times

My set of three Eclipse pin vices went on the Bring and Buy stand some time ago. Screen grabs from Squires catalogue which says prices may be different.

User avatar
Tim V
Posts: 2478
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:40 pm

Re: Pin Chucks

Postby Tim V » Tue Jul 12, 2016 2:55 pm

Decent quality tools are becoming harder to get. But unfortunately, model engineers and watchmakers are passing to the great workshop in the sky, so you can find bargains on Ebay etc.

I wouldn't part with my Eclipse pin chucks. For example I have an Eclipse No 136 for very small drills.
Tim V
Scalefour News Editor

Philip Hall
Posts: 1580
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:49 pm

Re: Pin Chucks

Postby Philip Hall » Wed Jul 13, 2016 2:11 pm

As Tim says, sometimes these days quality is harder to find. I have had a number of Archimedean drills where the four jaws are very far from being in the centre of the chuck, and therefore unusable for very small drills. I tend to look carefully now before purchase and most of the time it solves the problem. I would endorse Eclipse as a manufacturer.

I have about twenty pin vices and Archimedean drills now, on two separate benches, and they live with a specific size drill bits in each and are marked accordingly. This saves me having to change drill bits and having to extract said bits from the case each time. I have built this collection up over time and it would be quite expensive to do this from scratch again!

Philip

njggb
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:02 pm

Re: Pin Chucks

Postby njggb » Wed Jul 13, 2016 6:18 pm

Hi,

I have a number of Eclipse pin vices, some of which I inherited and some I have bought. They work well for me. I do tend to have "favourite" sizes kept "loaded". Eclipse seem to endure better than others. I have "recycled" my non Eclipse pin vices, they did not endure. The largest size is the best solution for holding Allan Gibson crank pin nuts!

For larger drills, I will hand tighten by hand and then with the shaft in the vice I put the the final "tighten" with a miniature "footprint" wrench. This works for up to 1/8" drill bits. The knurling on the outer sleeve is a bit worn on some but they continue to give sterling service.

I also have the Archimedes drill with the spring, Squires of course. The work well with the 0.5mm up to 1.0mm sizes.

James

Enigma
Posts: 362
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 2:49 pm

Re: Pin Chucks

Postby Enigma » Fri Jul 15, 2016 4:07 pm

Eclipse are still the best I reckon. Some of the cheaper Chinese (?) versions are OK for a while but seem to lose their grip eventually. I always use a large drawing pin in the handle end which acts similar to the 'ball' in the one shown above. A lot more comfortable in use than having the 'hole' boring into your hand.

Terry Bendall
Forum Team
Posts: 1889
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:46 am

Re: Pin Chucks

Postby Terry Bendall » Sat Jul 16, 2016 7:20 am

I use an Archimedes drill for the very small sizes. Mine came from Eileen's Emporium and is of good quality and has the rotating pad at the end which stops it digging into the palm of your hand. Other pin chucks wear after a time and will not hold the very smallest drills.

Terry Bendall

User avatar
John Bateson
Posts: 709
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:39 pm

Re: Pin Chucks

Postby John Bateson » Sat Jul 16, 2016 7:55 am

OK Folks - I am going to order an Eclipse version 121 as recommended quite strongly herein - many thanks, Eileens seem to have them in their list.
Buckley recycling will gain a few ounces in their metal skip.
I do have an Archi' drill that holds very small bits but my lack of control causes more breakages than a simple vice should cause.
John
Slaving away still on GCR stuff ...
Avoiding the soaps ...
https://www.greatcentralmodels.co.uk

Clive Impey
Posts: 44
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:09 am

Re: Pin Chucks

Postby Clive Impey » Sat Jul 16, 2016 10:15 am

John,
I have never found the Eclipse 121 etc pin chucks to be very satisfactory when used with drills. I would suggest that for drill use the Eclipse UCL 160 (Squires) that has three collets covering the range 0.25 to 2.5 is a much better tool. The one I have was purchased some 50 years ago and is still my tool of choice when using small drills.

Clive.

Terry Bendall
Forum Team
Posts: 1889
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:46 am

Re: Pin Chucks

Postby Terry Bendall » Sun Jul 17, 2016 9:15 am

John Bateson wrote:Buckley recycling will gain a few ounces in their metal skip


Pin chucks are useful to hold small round components when filing or sawing. Might be worth while hanging onto it for those sort of jobs. :)

Terry Bendall

User avatar
Paul Townsend
Posts: 859
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:09 pm

Re: Pin Chucks

Postby Paul Townsend » Sun Jul 17, 2016 10:17 am

Tim V wrote:Decent quality tools are becoming harder to get. But unfortunately, model engineers and watchmakers are passing to the great workshop in the sky, so you can find bargains on Ebay etc.

I wouldn't part with my Eclipse pin chucks. For example I have an Eclipse No 136 for very small drills.


I agree with Tim and have several Eclipse Pin vices which are hand tools with the long knurled hollow handle. In use every modelling day. Pedant alert....a pin chuck is smaller and has a plain shank for use in big chucks or lathe, usually has three colletts.
Taking Philip Hall's point that you can never have too many pin vices, and like him I have two modelling locations, I visited Ebay to see what was on offer.

BEWARE
Several vendors in UK, not China, are offering what appear to be good value Eclipse pin vices, individual sizes and sets.
I assumed these were genuine end of stock etc as so cheap.
I have received a foursome set "120" and am disappointed by the quality. The threads are pretty rough and the knurling is too sharp. I have yet to test them is anger for tiny drills but am expecting trouble.
They are in a little plastic wallet marked "Eclipse professional tools" and "www.eclipsegroup.com"

No such web site exists!!!

They seem to be clones and seem to be illegally using the Eclipse name.

In a few days time after car MOT and a 2 day wedding event ( for a cousin) away from home I will call into a decent local tool shop and ask for the same thing since Spear&Jackson who now own Eclipse list the same items as available.

I anticipate 2 possible outcomes:
a) the S&J version will be 3 times dearer and good quality. If so I will inform Ebay of pirated clone crappy sales using the S&J Eclipse name.
b) The S&J version will be of similar poor quality in a different package which will give the conclusion that S&J have moved production to the Far East and are now selling an inferior product. In this case they and Ebay still need to know about false and deceptive markings.

A sad tale, I will report back at the end of the week.

Meanwhile DO NOT BUY these new "Eclipse" ones off Ebay.

User avatar
grovenor-2685
Forum Team
Posts: 3447
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 8:02 pm

Re: Pin Chucks

Postby grovenor-2685 » Sun Jul 17, 2016 11:36 am

No such web site exists!!!

It takes me to the official Spear and Jackson site, so I would expect they took over the url along with the tool range.
Most of those on eBay which look to be in proper Eclipse packets have prices to match, so one might as well buy from a trusted dealer.
eg £46 from Squires seems a better bet than £59 from an eBay rip off merchant.
And most of the really second hand ones look to be asking for around a tenner so minimal savings there.
Regards
Regards
Keith
Grovenor Sidings

User avatar
David B
Posts: 1300
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 5:30 pm

Re: Pin Chucks

Postby David B » Sun Jul 17, 2016 2:21 pm

I referred in my earlier post to getting rid of my set of three Eclipse pin vices which were many years old. I could not do them up tight enough by hand and only undo them using pliers. I have heard of other people having the same trouble. As they pre-date the internet by many years and came from a good tool shop back in the 60s, they were the genuine article but absolute s**s to use.

User avatar
Paul Townsend
Posts: 859
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:09 pm

Re: Pin Chucks

Postby Paul Townsend » Sun Jul 17, 2016 4:22 pm

grovenor-2685 wrote:
No such web site exists!!!

It takes me to the official Spear and Jackson site,


Doesn't do that here if you use the url exactly as I posted copied from the packet.
Firefox/Google offers a .co.uk but no .com unless you mess with the url I posted .

30mins later....
The link now wprks as grovenor repoprted.
So I had a temporary web hiccough

This suggests the package may well be genuine but is still cheap at £20 and poor Quality so I rest my case for option1.

This is what I got off Ebay:

£20.00
Free P&P
Order ECLIPSE Pin Vice Set of Four Part No: 120 *NEW*
Leave Feedback - ORDER DATE 14 Jul, 2016
1 item sold by sd.enterprises
ECLIPSE Pin Vice Set of Four Part No: 120 *NEW*
( 262514029319 )

User avatar
derekrussan
Posts: 145
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:02 pm

Re: Pin Chucks

Postby derekrussan » Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:12 am

Eileen's stock the Eclipse E121 which is the one to use for small drills. I see no point in getting the E120 set (comprising 121,122,123 and 124) as there is no benefit at all over the lower price unbranded products for drills over 1mm, our set is "Pin Vice Single Ended English Pattern Set 4" TLSPVE4 at £13

I buy my Eclipse products from their authorised trade distributor, and I have noticed a degree of randomness in the packaging etc. I have had to return a few E121's as they were off centre. To be honest our "Pin Vice Single Ended English Pattern 0 - 1.0mm" TLSPVE1 at £3.50 is virtually as good as the Eclipse at a much lower price.
Derek Russan, Eileens Emporium.

User avatar
Paul Townsend
Posts: 859
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:09 pm

Re: Pin Chucks

Postby Paul Townsend » Thu Jul 21, 2016 6:23 pm

derekrussan wrote:Eileen's stock the Eclipse E121 which is the one to use for small drills. I see no point in getting the E120 set (comprising 121,122,123 and 124) as there is no benefit at all over the lower price unbranded products for drills over 1mm, our set is "Pin Vice Single Ended English Pattern Set 4" TLSPVE4 at £13

I buy my Eclipse products from their authorised trade distributor, and I have noticed a degree of randomness in the packaging etc. I have had to return a few E121's as they were off centre. To be honest our "Pin Vice Single Ended English Pattern 0 - 1.0mm" TLSPVE1 at £3.50 is virtually as good as the Eclipse at a much lower price.


Should have gone to Specsavers...oops Eileens!

My search today in the 4 decent Bristol Tool merchants showed none stock any but I have now some for collection tomorrow at Buck & Hickmans.

User avatar
Paul Townsend
Posts: 859
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:09 pm

Re: Pin Chucks

Postby Paul Townsend » Tue Jul 26, 2016 1:00 pm

Paul Townsend wrote:
derekrussan wrote:Eileen's stock the Eclipse E121 which is the one to use for small drills. I see no point in getting the E120 set (comprising 121,122,123 and 124) as there is no benefit at all over the lower price unbranded products for drills over 1mm, our set is "Pin Vice Single Ended English Pattern Set 4" TLSPVE4 at £13

I buy my Eclipse products from their authorised trade distributor, and I have noticed a degree of randomness in the packaging etc. I have had to return a few E121's as they were off centre. To be honest our "Pin Vice Single Ended English Pattern 0 - 1.0mm" TLSPVE1 at £3.50 is virtually as good as the Eclipse at a much lower price.


Should have gone to Specsavers...oops Eileens!

My search today in the 4 decent Bristol Tool Merchants showed none stock any but I have now some for collection tomorrow at Buck & Hickmans.


I finally got to the only Bristol Tool Merchant who will obtain them (Buck & Hickman) and collected a genuine Eclipse set of 4 coded 120.
Here are the results of a critical comparison, applies to all 4 but most important for the 121 = smallest.

The packaging is identical to those bought off Ebay but the price is £43.62 + Vat as opposed to the £20 gross off Ebay.
I have compared the two sets and note these differences:
EBay version, no oil so supplied dry. Quality of thread seems scratchy, even after oiling, may improve when run-in...some visible burrs and dents on the male part. Quality of collet: grips OK down to 0.3mm, smallest I have, but some chipping visible on nose.
Official Eclipse version: very oily, threads feel smoother, look better, collet performs the same and no visible chips.

I conclude that the £20 offer on Ebay are genuine Eclipse but may be seconds or factory rejects, so I don't disrecommend them at that price but do warn that you may have unpredictable troubles. I don't see any evidence that they are pirated or clones as the markings on tools and package are identical.

I can't tell if Asian rival products are as good as I have none.

It seems Derek Russan's quality control beats Eclipse's own for the 121 so I recommend buy from him. As Derek says the larger sizes are less critical so Asian versions or the Ebay "seconds" are probably good value. Only downside is that Bristol Buck & Hickman provide free coffee and Derek has given up on free Barbies :(

Classic caveat emptor!

User avatar
derekrussan
Posts: 145
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:02 pm

Re: Pin Chucks

Postby derekrussan » Tue Jul 26, 2016 2:16 pm

The unbranded ones I have always come in very oily bags.

You can always call in for a free "Costa" coffee.
Derek Russan, Eileens Emporium.

User avatar
Paul Townsend
Posts: 859
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:09 pm

Re: Pin Chucks

Postby Paul Townsend » Wed Jul 27, 2016 8:18 am

derekrussan wrote:
You can always call in for a free "Costa" coffee.

Ah, my favourite....I'll claim mine at Railwells :D

User avatar
derekrussan
Posts: 145
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:02 pm

Re: Pin Chucks

Postby derekrussan » Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:07 am

Sorry, Tasimo machine is at the workshop. Show organisers do not usually like us to take such things.
Derek Russan, Eileens Emporium.

User avatar
Tim V
Posts: 2478
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:40 pm

Re: Pin Chucks

Postby Tim V » Wed Jul 27, 2016 3:28 pm

Shame, and no burgers either....
Tim V
Scalefour News Editor

User avatar
John Bateson
Posts: 709
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:39 pm

Re: Pin Chucks

Postby John Bateson » Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:17 am

Away from Tassimo and burgers and back to theme ...

Received my Eclipse 121 pin chuck from Eileen's just now, checked with 0.3 mm drill, locked solid.
Thanks Derek.

John
Slaving away still on GCR stuff ...
Avoiding the soaps ...
https://www.greatcentralmodels.co.uk

User avatar
David B
Posts: 1300
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 5:30 pm

Re: Pin Chucks

Postby David B » Sat Aug 20, 2016 9:54 am

I keep hearing resistance to the Archimedes drill, and wonder why? You can keep the drill perfectly upright and hold the work with the left hand whilst working the collar with the right.

I have just drilled 108 x 0.35 holes with no breakages, something I could never achieve with my Eclipse, even with a drawing pin in the end.

Archimedes_1625crw.jpg
Archimedes_1625crw.jpg (59.57 KiB) Viewed 7828 times

allanferguson
Posts: 372
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:27 pm

Re: Pin Chucks

Postby allanferguson » Sat Aug 20, 2016 1:33 pm

David B well illustrates the facility of drilling with these chucks, and I indeed use nothing else for these very wee drills. Also shown in the picture, but not mentioned in the text is the absolute necessity of having the very minimum length of drill protruding from the chuck; any longer and it'll snap whenever you put any pressure on it.

Allan F

User avatar
Paul Townsend
Posts: 859
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:09 pm

Re: Pin Chucks

Postby Paul Townsend » Sat Aug 20, 2016 4:30 pm

David B wrote:I keep hearing resistance to the Archimedes drill, and wonder why? You can keep the drill perfectly upright and hold the work with the left hand whilst working the collar with the right.


Not possible here because mine is longer than yours :wink: and I don't have huge hands.
I do use mine if the work can be securely clamped so avoiding the huge stretch.

David B wrote:I have just drilled 108 x 0.35 holes with no breakages, something I could never achieve with my Eclipse, even with a drawing pin in the end.


How do you sharpen your drill after that lot ? :twisted:


Return to “Tools and Techniques”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests