Looking after tools that can rust

[John McAleely]

Having just taken a picture of my GW Models Quartering Jig, I was struck by the fact that it has joined one or two of my other tools in acquiring a patina of rust in some areas.

Perhaps a newbie question, but what should I be doing to prevent this? (Assuming it is preventable). As a follow up, what corrective action should I take - are there right and wrong ways to try to remove this layer of rust?

[Philip Hall]

I have not had any problems with rust on anything steel in my workshop, although I am fortunate that it is located in our loft room (at the moment) and there is no damp or condensation. A common solution as far as tools are concerned is a very thin film of oil, but here I dislike handling greasy items and prefer to keep them absolutely clean and dry, and I include in this the lathe and vertical drill. I think a dry atmosphere is the best thing, so maybe you have some moisture in the air? Perhaps a dehumidifier might help. Another possibility might be a rub over with 'dry silicone lubricant' which is used for things like curtain rails to stop them sticking. I get it from the hardware store under the Tableau label - 'Silicone Dry-Lube'. This does not leave a surface greasy, but allows things to slide.

To remove anything like this I use a rubber abrasive block (EMGS or Double -0 gauge association track cleaner)

As an aside, I have noticed that whenever I have used an etch marker pen for blackening steel axles and tyres, unless they are scrupulously polished afterwards some rust appears. This doesn't seem to happen with gun blue. The pen is so much more convenient, albeit expensive, but you have to be careful it seems.

I am contemplating a move to a much bigger workshop next year, in the garden, but here I am going to make stringent efforts to construct a fully insulated, carpeted room, with background heating throughout the winter months, so that this problem will (hopefully!) not arise.

Philip

[Will L]

Regrettably leaving you iron/steel tools anywhere near the workbench when you're soldering using liquid fluxes will produce a bloom of rust over time, caused by a mist of acid flux when it boils of a joint during soldering. You can try being very careful to move such tolls well away from the soldering action, you can clean then off and wipe them down with a little light oil after use, or you can polish off the rust with a glass fibre brush of some sort. I general take the keep it out the way option for precision things like Back to Back gauges, and use the fibre glass brush occasioanly on everything else.

Will

[Terry Bendall]

Even though my work space is a wooden building in the garden, I get very little trouble with rust. I think the best solution is a thin film of oil but I appreciate Philip's point. Many years involvement with machines and engineering means that a bit of oil does not bother me too much. I have found that a large glass fibre brush is the best way to clean off rust when it does happen and as Will says the culprit is often flux.

Terry Bendall

[David B]

How do you store your tools, John? I have a small engineer's tool chest whose drawers are lined with baize - perhaps you recall mine, Flymo's and several other people who have them at Missenden.

If tools are kept in a tin or open box, this can attract small amounts of condensation when the room temperature changes, especially at this time of year, or if they are near the kitchen. Do you leave tools out for long periods on your workbench?

The simple answer to keeping rust off tools is to use them. Perhaps you are not doing enough modelling!

[Alan Turner]

A number of things:

A) coat the tool in a thin layer of oil - i.e. put some oil on it and wipe it off with a paper towel.

B) store the tool in a box (I would suggest wood or cardboard) that has some VCI paper in it. See here: http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/acatalog/Engi ... .html#aRH1

C) Some people produce sweat that seems especially prone to cause corrosion. If that applies then wear gloves (probably you should be wearing these anyway in this day and age of H&S)

regards

Alan

[Andy W]

Thanks for that for VCI paper Alan. I've been trying to track some down for a while, but when I've asked in hardware shops etc. they've looked at me as if I'm mad. (Not an uncommon reaction).

I used to line stock boxes with this during my first stint in the hobby and it worked a treat.

[Natalie Graham]

If, like me, you are one of those people whose skin causes tools to rust there's not a lot you can do apart from wearing gloves when you use them. I believe it is down to the acidity of the skin. I only have to pick up a steel tool and it starts to rust. As for removing it I tend to go over things every so often with a glass fibre scratch but if it is a machined surface on a gauge or something similar obviously you don't want to use anything abrasive. You don't want a layer of surface rust either, so oiling the machined surface before it gets a chance to rust and avoiding touching it with your fingers is probably the best way to go.

[45609]

A number of things:

A) coat the tool in a thin layer of oil - i.e. put some oil on it and wipe it off with a paper towel.

B) store the tool in a box (I would suggest wood or cardboard) that has some VCI paper in it. See here: http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/acatalog/Engi ... .html#aRH1

C) Some people produce sweat that seems especially prone to cause corrosion. If that applies then wear gloves (probably you should be wearing these anyway in this day and age of H&S)

regards

Alan

A) Yes, this is good practice and has always worked well for me

B) I'd suggest reading this before committing to a wooden box.

http://www.npl.co.uk/upload/pdf/corrosion_of_metals_by_wood.pdf

All my tool boxes are plastic and some have these little devices dropped into the bottom of them.

http://www.micromark.com/rust-preventer,6540.html

Having said that most of my tools get frequent and heavy use so the rust doesn't have time to form.

C) Only good housekeeping can alleviate this aspect. Cleaning of the tools with a solvent to remove the residue after a work session (particularly if I've been soldering with an acid flux) and then re-oiling as per A) is the best approach. I've also got into the habit of making sure all the tools are put to one side on the bench before the soldering commences.

Morgan

[allanferguson]

I don't find that tools I regularly use rust. I've always believed that this is for the same reason that degreasing is important before soldering or glueing (or painting), i.e. my hands leave a slightly greasy residue on anything I handle.

Allan F

[John McAleely]

Well, I'm certainly guilty of some of the things mentioned on this thread.

I keep my tools either in plastic boxes (some in tins within those boxes for organisation purposes), or they tend to sit on my workbench for weeks at a time between sessions.

The workbench is in a 'spare bedroom' in my centrally heated house - so maintained at typical domestic temperatures.

I could well believe that both moisture and the side effects of soldering are involved, although I wouldn't say some of the tools that have rusted have come anywhere near a soldering iron (the GW press, for example).

I think I may try the oil idea more dilligently. Anyone got particular products they recommend, and patterns of use where they clean the oil off to use the tool and then re-coat it for storage?

[Tim V]

I used to get this problem, until I separated the work bench and soldering bench. I have various tools that do not cross the great divide between these two benches (about 4' apart). Only the tools on the soldering bench get rusty. I also downgrade tools for the soldering bench.

It can be a problem with jigs. In this case, they always get washed with the work, when that is de-fluxed. Jigs can also be dropped into the Ultrasonic cleaner. Keep them clean!

[Terry Bendall]

If that applies then wear gloves (probably you should be wearing these anyway in this day and age of H&S)

Probably not, ( ) unless you happen to be handling substances that may cause harm, such as some fluxes, adhesives, paints and solvents.

There are far to many people who get hung up about health and safety to an unecessary extent. I spent the period from 2000 -2012 advising technology teachers in schools and colleges about health and safety so I know a little bit about the subject. The Health and Safety Exectutive are on record as saying that they are not about stopping people doing things, but they do want them to do things safely.

The correct thing to do is to find out what the hazards are with the materials/substances/processes that you are using/doing, and how you can ideally elminate the hazards, or reduce them to a safe level. Suppliers are required by law to provide a hazard data sheet with any product that can cause harm so ask for it, and if the supplier cannot provide one, buy elsewhere. (or look on the web) Then follow the advice.

For those who are concerned, there are what are called control measures that can be used to reduce the risk of harm, and these can be placed in an order of use. Control measures should be taken in the following order:

1. If possible, eliminate the hazard.
2. If not possible, substitute with a safer alternative.
3. If not possible, use engineering controls. (This means things likes guards over drive belts of machines, or an interlock
switch which will stop a motor if the guard is opened)
4. Institute procedures and work systems. (i.e put in place rules that you follow. (If I am going to do paint spraying I will
always open the window.)
5. Use personal protective equipment. (PPE) (Eye protection, gloves, face mask etc)

You can do a risk assessment. This means identifying what the hazards are (use the hazard data sheet or read the instructions on the packaging), then identyfy how likely it is that something will go wrong. It is this part that causes many people to go over the top with health and safety. For much of what we do, it is unlikely that anything will cause a lot of harm because
(a) we are only doing it occasionally, or (b) the quantities are very small. Having identified how likely it is that something may go wrong, use the appropriate control measures.

In reality, for what we are doing, the sensible precautions would be to use a face mask if you are spraying paint (or use an extraction system or open the window), use a face mask if you are cutting lots of MDF with a power tool, (or use an extraction system) and use eye protection if you are using a lathe or milling machine. (or a guard over the chuck) For those who need to wear glasses, or use a head band magnifyer, remember that these are not designed as eye protection. They may shatter, but unlikely with the size of work we are doing, but more likely bits of metal may come round the sides. Either use prescription safety glasses or put eye protection over the top of your glasses - which are not then esy to use. Also there are different grades of face mask and you need to choose the right type - gnerally FFP2 grade for most work but FFP3 grade is better if you are doing a lot of spraying.

End of safety briefing. There is lots of free advice on the HSE web site www.hse.gov.uk, although some of it may get a bit technical and too detailed for our purposes.

Terry Bendall

[martinm]

In reality, for what we are doing, the sensible precautions would be to use a face mask if you are spraying paint (or use an extraction system or open the window), use a face mask if you are cutting lots of MDF with a power tool, (or use an extraction system) and use eye protection if you are using a lathe or milling machine. (or a guard over the chuck) For those who need to wear glasses, or use a head band magnifyer, remember that these are not designed as eye protection. They may shatter, but unlikely with the size of work we are doing, but more likely bits of metal may come round the sides. Either use prescription safety glasses or put eye protection over the top of your glasses - which are not then esy to use. Also there are different grades of face mask and you need to choose the right type - gnerally FFP2 grade for most work but FFP3 grade is better if you are doing a lot of spraying.

Terry,

A very succinct H&S briefing, as I would expect from you.

But, for practical and safer solutions for modellers, I feel the emphasis should be changed.

Extraction is a certain answer for spray painting; it is difficult to understand how opening a window can prevent breathing in the fumes.
Cutting any wood, not just mdf, with modern power cutters will produce dangerous dust. Many machines now have extraction points to connect to a vacuum cleaner and it is not too difficult to get the vacuum nozzle near to many other cutting activities.

Soldering is the one activity not mentioned; the fumes don't only rot the tools!. Although very few of us will be working under commercial pressures, extraction can help make life less unpleasant.

Extraction is better than the use of face masks that are only for single use; awkward and potentially unreliable (even for the smooth shaven). Neither FFP2 nor FFP3 are suitable for organic vapours.

I would suggest that eye protection is desirable for many modelling activities; hand tools such as knives, drills and piercing saw blades can break all too easily. Power tools not only increase the risk of breakage, but working metal will also produce swarf that can get thrown out. I would hope that all bench drills, lathes and milling machines already have appropriate safety shields and guards.
Good quality safety glasses are only a few pounds, if you need prescription glasses then safety variants, with side shields, are readily available at little extra cost. For some work a face shield will provide an easy to use option.

martin

[David B]

Soldering is the one activity not mentioned; the fumes don't only rot the tools!. Although very few of us will be working under commercial pressures, extraction can help make life less unpleasant.

I have seen on more than one occasion a small computer fan installed that blows across where soldering takes place. Not extraction, but it does deflect the fumes and reduces considerably the chances of you snorting the stuff.

David

[Natalie Graham]

Surely a high-viz vest and a hard hat guarantees complete immunity from all risk.

[DougN]

Natalie in a lot of respects yes..... As one who wears hi vis and hardhats... steel cap boots etc every so often... they are also amazing as to get you into a heap of places with high security with no questions... Also walking with a roll of plans and with purpose.... I have got into assorts of places! the weird one was the morgue.... Oh thats not what you were asking... No they don't stop the injuries but the hi vis hides the blood and effectively work to slow the blood loss

[Natalie Graham]

I have got into assorts of places! the weird one was the morgue....

I thought the idea was that they kept you out of there.

[Terry Bendall]

A very succinct H&S briefing, as I would expect from you.

Thanks Martin, I hope others found it useful.

it is difficult to understand how opening a window can prevent breathing in the fumes.

Yes I agree, but a supply of fresh air is useful. A suitable face mask is an alternative but I would agree that an extraction system, higher up in the list of control measures that I listed, is the best solution.

Cutting any wood, not just mdf, with modern power cutters will produce dangerous dust.

As you will know, but others on here may not, wood dust (and other substances) have Workplace Exposure Limits (WELs) The WEL for wood dust (as published in 2007) is 10mg per m3, taken as an average over an 8 hour day. It is possible to exceed this limit whilt a machine is in use, but for most of us, we are unlikely to be using such a machine for 8 hours at a time. Care needs to be taken to make sure that if a vacuum cleaner is used as extraction, that it has a filter on the outlet that will prevent exposure to the very fine dust that is the most harmful. Those used to clean the carpet probably won't have this. Some types of timbers are more hazardous thatn others. Apart from MDF, those that are likely to be used by railway modellers, have lower hazards tham some hardwood timbers for example.

I agree that fumes from soldering can be a problem, especially to anyone who has respiratory problems, but normally fumes from soldering are only a problem if fluxes containing rosin are used, and most don't.

Not extraction, but it does deflect the fumes and reduces considerably the chances of you snorting the stuff.

It is possible to buy small extraction units for soldering that sit on the bench behind the workpiece that will do the job correctly. It is also possible to but soldering irons with an extraction point at the tip which are connected to extraction unit that sits on the floor.

In the end be sensible.

Terry Bendall

[Re6/6]

I have almost given up trying to keep my steel track gauges free of rust. The main problem is that I live 100m from a salt water creek with all the damp airs that are associated with it.

I've tried coating them with WD40 or alternatively with machine oil, wrapping them in rust inhibiting paper paper then keeping them individually in small sealed plastic bags and stored in a small hard plastic case and still they rust.

I'm resigned to removing the rust physically and by using the ultrasonic bath every time before use. A pain, but there seems to be no escape.

As for steel rail, I gave up on that stuff years ago....!

Any suggestions for helping with this problem would be gratefully received.

[Tim V]

Do not use WD40, it is not an oil. It will strip oil off what you've used it on.

Use standard car engine oil (not after it's been in the car!). If desperate (!) you could immerse the gauges in oil.

[LesGros]

Tim V wrote:

Do not use WD40, it is not an oil. It will strip oil off what you've used it on...

It is true that the solvent in wd40 will strip oil from things, but also note from the WD40 website http://wd40.com/about-us/myths-legends-fun-facts/

While the “W-D” in WD-40 stands for Water Displacement, WD-40 Multi-Use Product is a unique, special blend of lubricants. The product’s formulation also contains anti-corrosion agents and ingredients for penetration, water displacement and soil removal.

The RAF use a similar formulation, for its water displacement properties, on SAR Helicopters after a "de-salting water wash"

My experience with Wd40 on garden kit is that it is good for rust protection for only a short time; so I agree with Tim that a film of engine oil is better protection.
It may be of interest that he National Engineering Lab practice for ferrous surface plates, was at the end of week to wash them with petrol and mutton cloth, then to coat them in Vaseline (Petroleum Jelly). The Vaseline being wiped off with a cloth before use.

[Alan Turner]

You shouldn't use petrol, almost guaranteed to cause rust (and is very hazardous). You should only use paraffin or kerosene.

regards

Alan

[LesGros]

Alan Turner wrote:

... petrol... almost guaranteed to cause rust (and is very hazardous). You should only use paraffin or kerosene...

It is best that a protective coating of oil should be applied immediately after any degreasing to avoid early onset of oxidisation. This is true of any degreasing agent, most of which are hazardous if mishandled; including kerosene.

As Terry has already pointed out; when handling hazardous materials, take due care and be aware of the properties of the substances you are handling.

[martin goodall]

As an ignorant non-engineer, I have tended to ignore limited patches of rust on tools. None of my steel tools has ever exhibited rust to such an extent as to affect cutting surfaces, etc. I fully understand that really serious rust would corrode metal away to a significant extent, but have you ever seen this in the UK? Maybe we shouldn't be paranoid about a modicum of rust.

On the other hand, as regards "Elfen Safety", I have tended to become more cautious over time. If it says "Use only in a well-ventilated space", I translate that as "Wear a suitable respirator" (one that can deal with organic vapours - not just a dust mask). Short of working upwind in the open air (not practicable most of the time), I don't believe there is any such thing as "a well-ventilated space". Even using fairly modest amounts of solvent, I have got into the habit of using the respirator.

And don't be under the illusion that cyano-acrylates or iso-cyanates are 'low risk'. (They are suspected of being linked to certain cancers). The instructions advise you to avoid breathing the fumes - so that means using the respirator again. There's an old adage - "If you can smell it, you're breathing it", and if you don't want to breathe it, then the simplest and cheapest precaution is a respirator, even if the window is open (which it should be anyway).