Solders, fluxes and tips

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bordercollie
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Solders, fluxes and tips

Postby bordercollie » Thu Apr 14, 2022 4:33 am

Hi
I have done a lot of reading and I am still confused.
I am looking for the best options for:
a) Soldering of electrics and electronics. I am thinking of 0.7 mm resin cored 60/40 and a tip between 0.8 and 1.2 mm
b) Soldering of etched brass kits. Solid core solder of approx. 1.0 mm and a tip of between 1.6 and 3mm Either using 60/40 or 63/37. I think the later is 179 degree. Yes/No? I am not sure what are the qualities of the flux that I should using e.g Carrs have several colors. I don't know if these are available in Australia.
I suspect that there isn't a definitive answer but I would like a good starting point.
Best Wishes

bobwallison
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Re: Solders, fluxes and tips

Postby bobwallison » Thu Apr 14, 2022 9:38 am

So many companies offering their own solutions for the same problem!

Your choice of soldering tips seems sensible, but select them according to the size of items to be joined, not according to type of work. The best tip for soldering tiny wires to a DCC chip will not be much good for soldering droppers to a heavy busbar.

As for solder and fluxes, resin cored 60/40 for electrical work seems fine. For kit construction, I would start with materials specifically chosen for railway modellers - you can always try more generic (cheaper?) products in due course. The default solution is Carrs 145 and 188 solder with their Green flux, but if you're based in Australia, why not try the home-grown DCC Concepts range? Their Sapphire flux is wonderful stuff, which I use for anything and everything and it doesn't leave corrosive residues the way Carrs Green does. I cannot speak for their solders, but the Sapphire 145 and Sapphire 179 look very promising. It's nice to have solders with different melting points as it reduces the risk of the whole job falling apart when you add fine detail.

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Winander
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Re: Solders, fluxes and tips

Postby Winander » Thu Apr 14, 2022 2:33 pm

bordercollie wrote: a) Soldering of electrics and electronics. I am thinking of 0.7 mm resin cored 60/40 and a tip between 0.8 and 1.2 mm

I used a 1mm tip for surface mounted components (the first time I soldered any) which was also OK for the usual leg through the hole components.

The reason behind Bob's comment regarding horses for courses is that the tip delivers the heat, small tip, less heat. Ideally you don't want to be lingering on a joint getting it hot. if you haven't got a soldering iron consider a 50W one although many people manage with 25W.

NEVER use a corrosive flux (a self cleaning one like Powerflow) on electronics.
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davebradwell
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Re: Solders, fluxes and tips

Postby davebradwell » Thu Apr 14, 2022 5:28 pm

You might as well use the resin cored 0.7 wire for everything at that temperature. I scrounged a reel of it from the electronic workshop when I left work and after 30 years I'm probably about 2/3rds of the way through it. You go through a few yards of it, though, when soldering in frame stretchers and other things that deserve a good fillet.

I would think choice of iron more important than the materials - you don't want a cheapie.

DaveB

DougN
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Re: Solders, fluxes and tips

Postby DougN » Thu Apr 14, 2022 9:48 pm

One tip I have for you is to use Brunel models fluxes and solders all available here in melbourne. John and Mary are contactable via phone from their website. I am not sure if they are still S4 members or not!

On soldering stations look at the range from jaycar. I have the TS 1564 which goes down to 150 degrees which has worked well for 70 degrees solder. Generally i was advised to double the temp of the solder to use effectively use it.
Doug
Still not doing enough modelling

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Winander
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Re: Solders, fluxes and tips

Postby Winander » Thu Apr 14, 2022 9:52 pm

The following applies to the UK, not entirely applicable to you Down Under, but I hope it is of some value.
I found it difficult to buy leaded solder last year, most suppliers said they would only deal with businesses and one (RS Components IIRC) said to be a business you had to be a limited company.

I agree with Dave; I got an 0.5Kg reel of 0.56mm/24swg made by Warton Metals from CPC (https://cpc.farnell.com/w/search/prl/re ... rand=omega), the invoice describes it as follows:
OMEGA 62S 24SWG-LR 500G Rosin-Free, Low Residue, 1% Flux Solder Wire 24SWG 500g 179°C

Warton/Omega's part number is LMP62S which is Sn62Pb36Ag2. I particularly wanted the 2% silver as I knew solder flows better with it and I like to give myself the best chance of success. DCC Concept's Sapphire 179 solder has a silver content and I wouldn't be surprised if the mix is identical based on the melting point. They charge £5.95 for 3m; current price at CPC for 0.5Kg the same 24swg as DCC is £57.54 inc VAT.

CPC is part of Farnell, but Farnell wouldn't sell me leaded solder.

The choice of wire size was limited, or I would have got slightly bigger. It is, however, a really nice solder, it flows well and my iron stays clean. I have lately been using lead free plumbers solder for trackwork for its higher temperature and it is awful to use, it has difficulty wetting the iron, but does the job. I often have to wet the iron with the Omega wire.
Last edited by Winander on Fri Apr 15, 2022 12:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Knuckles
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Re: Solders, fluxes and tips

Postby Knuckles » Thu Apr 14, 2022 10:22 pm

My soldering combinations have never failed me yet:

Fine electrical soldering iron:
Antex 25 Watt

Etched kit building soldering iron:
Weller 40 Watt, variable temp' from 200c - 450c

For most electrical soldering I can't advise on best solder or flux as I don't use 'proper' electrical solder often. I'm not a fan of rosin cored stuff as it seems to be a 1 hit wonder with further adjustment attempts often crumbling into a useless mess - probably me.

I appreciate it's designed to 'ball up' but I prefer it to flow, not an issue if doing basic wiring at least. Have got away with soldering DCC pads even using flowing solder but you have to be accurate n quick.

When doing layout electrics I use DCC Concepts Sapphire No Clean Flux or Lothonig Tubed stuff with either DCC Concepts 179 melt solder mentioned a post or so above or Carrs Speedy Solder.

For Brass n NS kit building:

Carrs 145 solder (or Speedy although 145 quicker n easier) with Carrs Green or the DCC Concepts No Clean Sapphire Flux and about 350-380c of heat.
Always found it a piece of urine to get the job done neat with these combinations. No issues thus.

I've found the 200c for low melt solder n WM seems fine, not had many accidental blobs created
thankfully.
“He who dares not offend cannot be honest.” Thomas Paine

https://www.sparkshotcustomcreations.com/
Mostly 3D Printed Loco kits etc.

SCC Price list (7/4/22)
https://www.sparkshotcustomcreations.co ... e77d42.pdf

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Jol Wilkinson
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Re: Solders, fluxes and tips

Postby Jol Wilkinson » Fri Apr 15, 2022 8:04 am

I have used Ersin multicore solder very satisfactorily (available in Australia I believe) for wiring and electronics over many years.

For etched kit's I use LRM 145 for etched kits (with their 12% phosphoric acid flux) as it has good flow characteristics. For whitemetal (usually adding castings to etched parts) I now use Carr's 100 degree it removes the need to tin the brass or n/s first as required with 70 degree solder. I always wash my work at the end of the session/day to remove any flux residues and have never had any problem with verdigris.

Other than that I have some 188 and 224 used occasionally for "step soldering".

bordercollie
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Re: Solders, fluxes and tips

Postby bordercollie » Sat Apr 16, 2022 6:41 am

Hi

I have a Hakko 888D work station that I have not used yet. I have now ordered some various C and D style tips and a K
I have just found some Carrs green solder and green label flux. I must have bought this on a trip to UK in 1985 or 1989. Does flux go "off" after this period of time?

From the previous replies if seems that 179 or 145 degree solder appear to be the best for kits. I can not get Carrs red label that I would prefer as, according to specifications, it leaves a non-corrosive residue. The DDC concepts no clean flux has similar properties so I will probably try to buy that.

Excuse my ignorance again but, is the 0.8 mm and 0.6 mm of 145 and 179 respectively, a good size to use?

I happen to be over in the Eastern States in the near future so I will pop into Brunel Models whilst in Melbourne.
Thanks everyone for advice
Regards

bobwallison
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Re: Solders, fluxes and tips

Postby bobwallison » Sat Apr 16, 2022 8:38 am

I don't think the thickness of wire is important, so the sizes quoted will be fine. A big advantage of wire is that, by cutting it into short lengths with a craft knife, you have excellent control over how much solder you pick up on the tip of of the iron.

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Jol Wilkinson
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Re: Solders, fluxes and tips

Postby Jol Wilkinson » Sat Apr 16, 2022 12:19 pm

The bigger the mass of the item being soldered the greater the heat flow required to maintain the tip temperature. So choose the diameter of the tip and shape of the end (which affects the contact area) according to what you are soldering. Bigger mass, larger tip, contact area and vice versa.

Ultimately the best thing is to get some metal and practise.

DougN
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Re: Solders, fluxes and tips

Postby DougN » Sat Apr 16, 2022 10:58 pm

If your over in melbourne sing out as the finescale group will welcome you. In fact the next meeting is at my place in mid May!
Doug
Still not doing enough modelling

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Horsetan
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Re: Solders, fluxes and tips

Postby Horsetan » Wed May 18, 2022 2:19 pm

bordercollie wrote:....Does flux go "off" after this period of time?....


Not if my experience (and doubtless a great many others) is anything to go by. I've only just come to the end of a bottle of Yellow Label Flux that I've had since at least the 1990s. A fresh (plastic) bottle of Yellow was obtained at least 8 years ago and now I can finally start to use it.

The bottles of Red and Green are still knocking around.
That would be an ecumenical matter.

DougN
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Re: Solders, fluxes and tips

Postby DougN » Thu May 19, 2022 2:44 am

Horsetan wrote:
bordercollie wrote:....Does flux go "off" after this period of time?....


The bottles of Red and Green are still knocking around.


Is that because you haven't knocked them over :D

I find that my red label lasts a long time - I keep decanting a new bottle into an old one so if it does get knocked over, it is only a small mess to clean up as I only put in about 10mm in the very bottom
Doug
Still not doing enough modelling

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Paul Willis
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Re: Solders, fluxes and tips

Postby Paul Willis » Thu May 19, 2022 4:54 pm

DougN wrote:
Horsetan wrote:
bordercollie wrote:....Does flux go "off" after this period of time?....


The bottles of Red and Green are still knocking around.


Is that because you haven't knocked them over :D

I find that my red label lasts a long time - I keep decanting a new bottle into an old one so if it does get knocked over, it is only a small mess to clean up as I only put in about 10mm in the very bottom


Doug,

You need a couple of cheap syringe bottles from Hong Kong, or a syringe like Mr Brandreth very deftly uses.

IMG_3552.JPG


Cheers
Paul
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk

gavin
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Re: Solders, fluxes and tips

Postby gavin » Thu May 19, 2022 5:52 pm

Or another simple solution to accidental spillage - a lump of bluetac to stick the bottle down.
Gavin

Terry Bendall
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Re: Solders, fluxes and tips

Postby Terry Bendall » Thu May 19, 2022 6:18 pm

Or drill a suitable size hole in a block of wood and put the bottle in that.

Terry Bendall


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