West of Scotland 4mm Group

[Allan Goodwillie]

The West of Scotland 4mm Group meet twice per month normally on the second Tuesday at 7.30 under Glasgow Central Station where we share clubrooms with the Clydeside MRC. The other day is dependent on the membership but looks like alternating between the 4th Sunday/ Monday and takes the form of a teach - in covering different modelling techniques.

This winter the focus is on building locomotives - starting with simple straightforward techniques to get a good running chassis and will go on to other aspects of locomotive construction. The first of these meetings will be on Monday the 26th Oct 09 at my house in Livingston. 7.00 for 7.30 pm. Anyone living in the West of Scotland and interested in Scalefour whether working in the Scale or gauge or just contemplating is invited to come along. (Please Email for directions if you would like to come).

The Group , although one of the very first to be set up to develop P4/S4 in the early days, has undergone much change in recent years and most of the membership is relatively new, thus the teach - in to encourage the new recruits. We have an exhibition layout and encourage the members to construct layouts at home and are open to what can be learned from other gauges and scales ( some members also work in "0" and "S7" and "00" ). So if you would like to join an outward looking group of real enthusiasts who appreciate and want to strive for quality then please consider coming along, you will be made most welcome.

[Allan Goodwillie]

This is our update for the winter season 2010-2011.

This winter it is intended that the members who have been taking part in the loco building sessions over the last season, will all finish their locomotives over the next couple of months, if they have not already completed them. Allan Goodwillie has been asked to continue the loco building meetings to cover body building using scratch building techniques. This will be covered on the Fourum as this progresses, the first of these evenings will probably be in late November. So, if you have been following the series on the Fourum then why not come along - it will be comprehensive but not outside the scope of the beginner. It will not need any fancy equipment , just a few simple tools. Some help will be given for any turnings etc. you may need, if you are a member of our group - we are all very friendly, so if you live in the West Central Scottish area then consider joining us.

The locomotives being constructed at the moment, should be completed in time for the grand opening of the main line layout being built in the clubrooms. The layout was originally built by Mike Gilgannon as his home layout, but, sadly, was not completed before he died. It has required some modification for fitting into the club room and a new fiddle yard is being built during the Glasgow club nights. We are all looking forward to operating main line trains - probably some time in Feb/Mar. From then until the summer we will concentrate on scenic matters and, like the locomotive building course, the layout will act as a teach in to develop everyone's skills and also to give encouragement to the new modelers within the group.

John Stocks has taken on the job of work organizer and has done a magnificent job so far in building a new storage yard for the traveling layout which is now refurbished by the membership and is ready for display. The storage yard should be complete by the end of November, it takes the form of a turntable/traverser.

Chris Coles (Secretary/ Treasurer) was asked at the AGM to contact the AMRSS and apply to re-join the Association after a number of years absence and we are looking forward to helping the Scalefour Society with the traveling stand at the Glasgow Show in 2011 and taking Calderside the following year to the exhibition. Now the layout is complete we are looking to exhibit it at various shows over the next two years.

In November we are going to Richard Chown's to operate his Castle Rackrent system as an arranged outing, with other outings planned over the winter season. The Christmas Quiz and operating evening will take place at Chairman Allan Goodwillie's house in December. Dubbieside and Grayrigg will be operating that evening. The quiz last year was won by David Porter so he will be setting the quiz this year.

We have gained a few new members and progress on all of our projects has been good. It has been great seeing people within the group taking things on and confidence within the less experienced members of the group building. We are all looking forward to this next season where personal projects will be completed and group activities take on new forms.

If you have considered joining us then why not give us a try, we are mainly S4 modelers, but not exclusively so, a number of our members model in more than one gauge. This is similar to the East of Scotland 4mm group with whom we have good connections.

Allan Goodwillie

[Dgp1957]

Hi Allen sorry this might not be the right place to post this, but does anyone know where I can buy 4 hole carriage wheels for caley coaches?

[Philip Hall]

Alan Gibson lists a 4 hole 14mm dia. carriage wheel for Pullmans.

Philip

[Allan Goodwillie]

Thanks Philip,
that pretty much covers that. Sorry those who were following this particular thread. Most of you will probably be unaware that I was very ill for a period of time and that my mother died after a number of very difficult months which took away most of my time. Sometimes life is like that. However I am hoping to get back to the locomotive building thread in the New Year as quite a number of people have told me they were following it and was it not about time I finished it! Work stopped on the locomotives when I fell ill, however One was very advanced and I do have the photographs, now I need to find time to do the commentary to go with them although I do not think it will happen until the New Year as I have another childrens book in the "Adventures of the LIttle Owls" series coming out for Christmas and promoting that will take up some of my time.

[BRUNEL]

This is excellent news, Allan. Since our conversation at S4N in Wakefield, I have been aware that you faced a number of problems of the kinds we all have to face at times. So it is really good to hear that you are contemplating getting back into the cab, as it were. I'm sure that I'm not the only one to be following the loco construction thread, so I'm really looking forward to the new year. Just make sure that you get plenty of rest over Christmas!!

Derek.

[Allan Goodwillie]

Hi Derek,
that is very kind of you thank you. I gave up being the Chairman of the West Group last year as I fealt that I had done my stint and brought it back from the brink a number of years ago and rebuilt it to have the number of members we have now. We have an excellent chairman in John Stocks who also likes to lead from the front and I was so lucky having my old friend Chris Coles who has worked tirelessly for the group from nearly the beginning as secretary and treasurer. As a group we have an excellent exhibition layout which we are expanding at the moment and a large layout under Central station which is purely a club layout which will never be out - it is far too big and heavy to cart easily around, but we hope to complete it and the colliery extension for Calderside over the next two years.

Other news, We had Bob Heatherington give a superb talk on building locos as a follow up on our course and I have been running a course on track building and laying which we are half way through with each member contributing two points for the new section. Although trackwork is well covered I might put some material on the Fourum later in the year. If anyone in the Glasgow and West of Scotland area would like to come to the second two workshops they would be most welcome as they are open meetings.

The West Group are also taking my Dubbieside Layout to the Glasgow Show to represent one of the earliest S4 Layouts to have been seen there, appearing for the first time in the early 1970's. We also have an Hon member my old friend Richard Chown who is taking a section of Castle Rackrent (Irish 7mm) which appeared about the same time. Richard was at Scalefourum this year with a section of one of his new layouts Fangfoss (Norwegian Scaleseven) and travelled down with us and Calderside in the same van. We enjoyed Scalefourum again this year. It beats me why we cannot get people to travel around London when we have to travel so far (Central Scotland) to Scalefourum. The organisers should be congratulated on putting on a great show every year and put in a massive ammount of work to get it right.

We have been invited to go to Wigan with Calderside next year which should be fun (we are replying to them at the moment). The East Group's Burntisland is also going and I have put in a lot of hours with that layout over the years as well, so will probably spend time on both. Do not be surprised at the similarity of finish on both layouts!

We have also been out with John Stock's layout a couple of times in the last year and it was a joy to operate! Looks great as well! John has made an excellent job of it and has contributed some great ideas over the last few years. Now we have built up our team and the members are very keen to do things I am sure we will go from strength to strength over the next few years.

Finally I am starting a new group/s of starters who would like to build a layout at home for themselves for the first time and who would like to do that with the support of a few friends. I intend holding an initial meeting sometime in the week between Christmas and New Year in LIvingston. Anyone living in the Central Scotland Area who would like to come along can contact me initially via the Fourum. This is a new venture and given those who say they are interested, should be a lot of fun.

[Terry Bendall]

The West Group are also taking my Dubbieside Layout to the Glasgow Show to represent one of the earliest S4 Layouts to have been seen there, appearing for the first time in the early 1970's. We also have an Hon member my old friend Richard Chown who is taking a section of Castle Rackrent

The Society stand will also be at the Glasgow show again with Mike Ainsworth and myself in attendance. I shall certainly be interested in seeing at least a part of Castle Rackrent at the show, and it will be good to see Dubbieside again.

We had Bob Heatherington give a superb talk on building locos as a follow up on our course

I wonder if Bob could be persuaded to either put the contents of this talk into an article for the News or on here? I am sure that many who have admired his locos would be interested to read about how he does things.

We have been invited to go to Wigan with Calderside next year ... The East Group's Burntisland is also going

In that case Wigan next year should be a must for those who work to P4 standards. Barry Luck's Plumpton Green has also been booked. It is the week after Scaleforum but since Barry needs some help with the layout I shall be going as an operator.

I am sure we will go from strength to strength over the next few years

Indeed and long may it continue.

Terry Bendall

[Allan Goodwillie]

Well Glasgow was fun! Dubbieside performed pretty well all weekend and showed that a 45 year old layout could still do its stuff. My son Dave and I shared a van and helped my old friend Richard Chown to bring a section of his 7mm Rackrent along, the two layouts carrying the flag for the 1970's period at Glasgow's 50th show. Something that was particularly nice was the presence of so many friends, many of whom brought along locomotives and stock to run along the upper mainline. Some of the locomotives had appeared many years ago as guests on the layout and the tradition continued. Richard also had a good weekend I believe and like myself had many people mention when they had first seen Rackrent. Many people mentioned Dubbieside being at Elgin, Manchester, Nottingham, London etc. as well as its time in the Melrose Model Museum in the 80's. Dubbie is still to go to Perth next year and may still go to one or two shows before I retire her - I always wanted to go down to Wells with it, but when asked many years ago it was impossible, as Wells was a show that was on when I was back at work, but you never know, I have been down there with Richard Chown and also with Burntisland more recently.
I have started a new layout, which will not be ready for a couple of years yet, but I am hoping to take it out on the circuit eventually. So I am going to add a few photographs of Dubbie and Rackrent at Glasgow, We seem to gain new members in the West Group every year at Glasgow and this has happened again this year. Plans are afoot to start laying track on the new extention to Calderside and the first boards were made last week. The track making class I have been organising along with John has been successful with most of the members making track for the first time and the track being ready now for laying. It is traditionally made using wooden sleepers, rivits, and plastic chairs, laid on cork. Progress is also being made on our large circuit. Here are some photographs of Dubbieside at Glasgow.

Alasdair Taylor's V2 strides along the back with a fitted freight as My J83 and Simon Wall's J72 simmer below

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Followed by my own A4 on an express.

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A moment when two WD's pass on the upper circuit

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Julian's big Q1 also appeared as relief shunter - eyed up by two of the locals.

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The crew on the Y9 - my second oldest locomotive created a bit of a stir as you rarely see what the shunter's step was used for. I had to improve the clearance in certain parts of the yard to accommodate this!

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[Allan Goodwillie]

This is Glasgow 2016 Part 2 as it were. I wanted to include some of my friends here with a few more photographs, didn't catch everyone but thanks all who helped out with Dubbie, especially my West group mates.

Alasdair Taylor also spent time with Richard

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Here Richard Chown is assisted by Charlie, Robinson Styled goods shunting on Rackrent

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Charlie Davidson concentrates on placing one of his locos on Dubbieside's upper main line. John, one of our more recent members behind did well running the back half of the layout along with Andy, could not have done it without you. Thanks also to Chris, Ian, Phil and Julian as well as Dave who all did sterling work on the layout over the weekend.

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Bob Hetherington also turned up with his next loco for Burntisland a long back and very nice too-reminding me to get on with my own new loco for Burntisland.

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On the Scalefour stand were Terry and Mike, who was our special guest on the Saturday evening when the West Group had their traditional meal. Terry and his son went up to Oban overnight to travel on the West Highland

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[Andy W]

Allan, layouts and locos with real character. Marvellous.

[Allan Goodwillie]

Thanks Andy, we had a committee meeting for the West Group this afternoon and there was some discussion as to how useful it was to put stuff on the fourum especially news from the groups, but I think it is worthwhile. It is true that both layouts are "Characters" and both from a time when perhaps the hobby was more creative in a different sort of way. Now it seems that the only way to model is to take an actual place and reproduce it, in America this is seldom the case, but it has become more that way here over the years. Richard's layout has literary origins, mine was a case of modelling attractive features of an area that carried the industrial feel of the Fife harbours and initially building a layout along one bedroom wall.

When Dubbieside was moved to the Museum in Melrose it was expanded greatly - see MRJ 47 I had hoped to build a Waverley Route exhibtion down there, similar to Pendon, but personal circumstances got in the way. Nowadays I have been very involved with building Burntisland, like many of my modelling friends in the East Group which I started back in the 1980's. I suppose that Burntisland is a grand example of copying a real situation - but I am afraid we have not managed to "get it all right" as research changes what you know. However it has been an interesting exercise taking up the total modelling time of about 20-25 (on average) good modellers at the top of their game over a period of 15 years so far. I once calculated that one person trying to build such a model assuming that they could start at the top of their powers when a baby using all their "free" time in life, would take somewhere around 150 years! - so not much hope for someone working on their own.

We have entered a new phase in model construction in recent years where gentlemen modellers get others to build locos, or track, or baseboards and only tackle the bit they fancy - so it is difficult, I think, for them to build models of character as there has to be an overall sense of what you create. I sometimes wonder why they do not just go the full hog and buy everything and run it straight out the box?

I have started a starters group up in Scotland with about 10 members from both groups that I am a member of and am hoping to encourage them to have a go at all aspects of model building with the intention that they build their own layouts at home.

It is possible to love it all and find pleasure in making everything - that is why I have been adding material to the fourum under the beginners section, because there is nothing a beginner cannot tackle if they really put their mind to it. I am hoping it is all practical, there are already far too many theorists.

Thank you again for your kind comments.

[Andy W]

Many of us are following your wonderful beginners threads - even if we're not exactly "beginners"! I think many people don't build things because they're scared to make mistakes. But that's the only way to learn.

[Allan Goodwillie]

I think that's true Andy and a bit unfortunate as I think it is maybe partly due to the cost of stuff these days. I know there is a tendency to think that you may also need expensive equipment to make things work well. I am no engineer, but work with simple tools most of the time. The skills needed can be picked up quite quickly and provided care is taken a good result will come. Julian's Q1 was one of his first locomotives. It was based on an older type of whitemetal kit, but Julian along with other members of the West Scotland Group followed the course I have put on the Fourum and worked away on his loco until he produced a locomotive that works well. He now has quite a number of working engines all of which perform well.

Julian has no worries about asking questions which is the quickest way to learn as so many have already been there and are only too willing to help. I often do the same myself and hope that members post stuff in response - that's what the fourum is all about. It is also a great tool for passing on information that others can use in an organised form - books do this but here you can post far more photographs (therefor more detail) and you have others adding experience and joining in. Terry starting this parallel thread is useful as it allows a more general chat about a particular thread which may cover other thoughts a little more remote from the direct thread. It may even lead to other forms of thread I am thinking.

In the West Group I have been running, along with John Stocks, a similar course on track making and all the lads have now made some points. The points will be used on Calderside on the new extention. John, Chris and Andy are busy building baseboards now so the track will be laid over the next couple of months - for quite a few of the members this will be their first time building track and laying it. It has also been an opportunity to show what works and what does not. Looking at the fourum there are quite a few discussions on certain aspects of track making, might put down what we are doing at some point as well. I carried out a number of experiments about 20 years ago and have built them into my Grayrigg layout (which just stays at home) to see the long term problems or otherwise due to using different techniques. It did produce some interesting findings.

The new starters group that I have brought together will produce, I hope, about another ten layouts up here in the central belt over the next three years. Some are starting by building a first locomotive and stock and others want to start with baseboards and track. I have a new layout that I am going to build for myself for exhibition based on the Wemyss System - I intend using a few untried ideas, but will try them out prior to building. I intend putting the experiments onto the fourum, just in case anyone has already tried them to see what results there are out there already. I am sure some things may not work, but until tried I will not know, but all this may be of interest to other members as well.

It may create a completely new type of thread called "Don't try this".

I am also going to get a starters group thread which will be based on our new electronic magazine, (pity we can't put PDF downloads on the fourum.)
I hope the thread will allow them to comment on what we are doing as well as allow them to show their experiences and developments. If they get a taste they may be encouraged to do as one of our members Chris Gogh, who already has been building a great thread following his new build. Chris has been trying a number of things and is well on his way to producing an excellent layout.

Chris on the right chats with new member Douglas Benton on our last meeting when Chris had the lads over to see his layout's progress. That progress will be covered in his thread so I do not want to spoil things for him here, but we are already having fun and enjoying one another's company learning - and that goes for me too! In the background Jim Batchelor and Bruce Neil trying their hand at operating.

This shot shows the fiddle yard being operated by Dave Goodwillie and Phil Draper taking photographs.

[grovenor-2685]

(pity we can't put PDF downloads on the fourum.)

There should be no problem adding a .pdf file as an attachment to any post, which others can then download.
Regards

[Allan Goodwillie]

Thanks Keith,

That may prove to be very useful, I never put anything into the West Group's Blower that would be objected to and we quite often have stuff that would be useful to other modellers - I will talk it over with the committee as at the moment the Blower material is produced in house just for ourselves. I would not want to publish all as it is meant primarily for our membership, although publishing an example may encourage others to join us.

However, the "Dubbie Shunt" which I have started for our "S4 beginners" group is intended as an ecouragement for those who have not yet built a layout for themselves at home and maybe the "beginners" within the society may like to read it and gain encouragement from it as well - it is a quarterly. I will talk it over with the group - we have no committee but are a democracy and I would not want in any way to go against the wishes of the members. I will send you a copy by email which you can pass on to those who are involved with the operations of the fourum and if you think it would be appropriate to publish it on the fourum then please let me know as it might add another dimention to what we do as a Society.

I am keen that the "Shunters" may be encouraged to use the fourum as there is much they can gain from it and contribute as well. They are not total beginners by the way, many have been modelling for years in 00 or other scales and worked in S4 on the group layouts, being members either of the West or East Groups in Scotland, so there is talent there, but none so far, have built a S4 layout for themselves and that is what the group is all about. It is also about developing skills that the two senior groups will be able to tap into as well as provide layouts for possible exhibition use in the future.

The West Group have for some time run courses and speakers to enhance what we do, the East Group less so, although we have occasional try out days and speakers, but Burntisland has taken most of our modelling time for some years now to the detriment of home layouts. I am trying to regain a balance, for myself as much as for the others.

[Noel]

There should be no problem adding a .pdf file as an attachment to any post, which others can then download.

As the Wiki seems to have gone quiet, for the moment at least, should we, as a society, be considering whether such material should be given a more permanent home on the site? Clearly, if yes, a decision would have to be taken on whether or not each document offered was appropriate for such long term retention, but attachment to a post is fairly transient; a few months later few will remember that it is there, I suspect.