Black windows!

How to add the atmosphere.
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jon price
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Black windows!

Postby jon price » Sun Jan 09, 2022 1:28 pm

In the process of moving the layout to a more viable location I noticed that the windows on my buildings just looked black. (I never noticed before as I was probably suffering from concussion due to the unsuitable location) They are actually transparent, but I don't have lights inside as it is always daytime at Connah's Quay. I took a look out of my own window and the houses in the street also have black windows although the curtains are visible.

P1090101.JPG

So no more trying to avoid getting glue on transparent windows for me now. All future windows will be backed with black card.
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Connah's Quay Workshop threads: viewforum.php?f=125

John Palmer
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Re: Black windows!

Postby John Palmer » Sun Jan 09, 2022 2:53 pm

I think you're missing an opportunity here to add to the impression of depth behind the windows. Recently I noticed that the buildings I have been constructing lacked curtains or nets, so for my latest terrace I have been adding drawn back curtains at the margins of the window reveals, formed from offcuts of old, yellowed paper folded concertina fashion. Nets are applied as a single leaf of tissue paper mounted behind windows so as to obscure the interior from top of lower sash level downwards.

Here's an example of the drawn back curtains behind a window aperture:
Curtains behind window.jpg
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Daddyman
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Re: Black windows!

Postby Daddyman » Sun Jan 09, 2022 4:42 pm

John Palmer wrote:I think you're missing an opportunity here to add to the impression of depth behind the windows. Recently I noticed that the buildings I have been constructing lacked curtains or nets, so for my latest terrace I have been adding drawn back curtains at the margins of the window reveals, formed from offcuts of old, yellowed paper folded concertina fashion. Nets are applied as a single leaf of tissue paper mounted behind windows so as to obscure the interior from top of lower sash level downwards.

Here's an example of the drawn back curtains behind a window aperture:Curtains behind window.jpg

That's very impressive (it is a model, right?). Can you say something about your methods for creating window bars and rendering?

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jon price
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Re: Black windows!

Postby jon price » Sun Jan 09, 2022 4:51 pm

Curtains are nice, but only one of these buildings is residential (and then only half of it) the rest being pilot office, chandlers warehouse, and railway office. Of all of the remaining buildings only one will need the curtains approach, as photos seem to show very visible nets on the lower half of the windows, but the rest have no curtains so they will just be black.
Connah's Quay Workshop threads: viewforum.php?f=125

John Palmer
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Re: Black windows!

Postby John Palmer » Sun Jan 09, 2022 11:36 pm

No great skill involved in the production of these windows, I'm afraid, as they are custom etchings I commissioned from PPD about a year ago. Here, shown greatly enlarged, is the artwork for the two sashes forming the window that is the subject of my previously posted picture – to give you an idea of size, each pane measures approximately 3.5mm X 5.3mm, and the glazing bars are 0.33mm thick: the equivalent of a scale inch.
Sash artwork.jpg
I incorporate these etchings into a 6-ply laminated strip to form the window – or multiple windows where, as is common, they are one above the other on successive floors. The strips are then held in place in slots behind the window reveals in the building's walls. The strips can be removed from these slots as required, and this simplifies enormously painting both of the windows and the walls. Naturally it's desirable to paint the etchings before they are attached to their underlying layer of glazing, as that way no errant paint finds its way onto the glazing.

Seen in close up, I was bit surprised by the size of the grains of 'render', as it is nothing more than the airbrushed application of paint at fairly low pressure (about 15 psi, from memory), but from a distance of nine to twelve inches. This was a deliberate attempt on my part to get the paint droplets to hit the wall in a semi-dry state and so introduce a degree of texture into the coating. I'm satisfied with the way this turned out, though it was achieved through the unintended application of two coatings of paint over the entire wall. This became necessary in order to blank out some bleed of the red paint I'd applied to relief lettering above the windows at this level, some of the bottom parts of which have intruded into the top of the picture.
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Terry Bendall
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Re: Black windows!

Postby Terry Bendall » Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:55 am

The picture belows shows some cottages on Pulborough made about 35 years ago. The curtains, including a net curtain can be seen in the first widow. I did not make these but I am fairly sure that the windows would have been cut from stryene sheet with the curtains made from tissue paper of different colours. That is what I did on other buildings on the layout that I did make.

One way of screening the interior of a building is to put black stryene set back from the window by about 20mm or 25mm. That avoids having to model the room itself but gives an impression of depth behind the window.

Terry Bendall
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Daddyman
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Re: Black windows!

Postby Daddyman » Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:26 am

John Palmer wrote:No great skill involved in the production of these windows, I'm afraid, as they are custom etchings I commissioned from PPD about a year ago. Here, shown greatly enlarged, is the artwork for the two sashes forming the window that is the subject of my previously posted picture – to give you an idea of size, each pane measures approximately 3.5mm X 5.3mm, and the glazing bars are 0.33mm thick: the equivalent of a scale inch.Sash artwork.jpg I incorporate these etchings into a 6-ply laminated strip to form the window – or multiple windows where, as is common, they are one above the other on successive floors. The strips are then held in place in slots behind the window reveals in the building's walls. The strips can be removed from these slots as required, and this simplifies enormously painting both of the windows and the walls. Naturally it's desirable to paint the etchings before they are attached to their underlying layer of glazing, as that way no errant paint finds its way onto the glazing.

Seen in close up, I was bit surprised by the size of the grains of 'render', as it is nothing more than the airbrushed application of paint at fairly low pressure (about 15 psi, from memory), but from a distance of nine to twelve inches. This was a deliberate attempt on my part to get the paint droplets to hit the wall in a semi-dry state and so introduce a degree of texture into the coating. I'm satisfied with the way this turned out, though it was achieved through the unintended application of two coatings of paint over the entire wall. This became necessary in order to blank out some bleed of the red paint I'd applied to relief lettering above the windows at this level, some of the bottom parts of which have intruded into the top of the picture.

Many thanks for taking the time to explain your methods!

martin goodall
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Re: Black windows!

Postby martin goodall » Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:22 pm

As members may have noticed on my 'Burford Branch' thread, in buildings towards the back of the layout, I have inserted plain white styrene sheet in the windows (shaded grey with a standard lead pencil) in place of more orthodox glazing material. Windows at or near the back of the layout can otherwise look too black. In fact, in the buildings right at the back of the layout, abutting the backscene, I have pencilled the entire windows and doors and their frames on the surface of the styrene sheet, relying on appropriate shading to indicate the shadows thrown by the window reveals, windows sills and door frames.

I know some modellers airbrush matt varnish over window glazing as an alternative, so as to kill its shininess.

I have never bothered about what can be seen inside the building, as the interior is usually far too dark for anything inside to be visible. [Later edit: This remark does not apply to windows in the foreground, where curtains, net curtains, etc. can be seen, and are worth reproducing.] But in some cases, I have stuck black paper on the outside of the rear wall, and on the rear roof plane, in order to prevent light grinning through the styrene sheet and providing unwanted illumination of the interior.

These are all purely 'artistic' techniques, as I am only concerned with producing an artist's impression, without reference to what is 'correct' in technical terms.

Enigma
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Re: Black windows!

Postby Enigma » Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:17 pm

I can't remember ever having added an interior to a building*, based on the principle that if you can't see it - why bother. Even at Pendon the ineriors are hard to see at 'normal' viewing distance. I either paint the inside Black or, in more recent builds, I have positioned some shiny Black card from a box that contained a shirt a few mm's away from the inside surface. Plenty left for a whole town's worth!

*signal boxes obviously excluded!


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