Using thick and thin sleepers, togetherish

Discuss the prototype and how to model it.
alaninDM
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Using thick and thin sleepers, togetherish

Postby alaninDM » Sat Jul 17, 2010 1:52 pm

I am planning a layout, which is good. But I am anticipating a problemette: not good. I am hoping that the combined wisdom of the society can help.

I invested years ago in Brook Smith sleepers and rivets and a press. I have tried, with pleasing success, to make plain track and a point or two using the Brook Smith methods some while ago before fulltime work etc forced me back into the armchair. Now I have also brought plastic ready made track and bases and rail chairs: and there is the rub.

I am wondering how to use both the thick plastic and thin ply sleepers in a similar section of track and points? I have had a quick sift through the digest sheets but cannot find an obvious reference to how to match the two thicknesses. Is there a relatively simple solution and if so where will I find it? I have just thought that Rice's Finescale track book may have it - which I have. I have not yet found my copy so have not looked. Is it in there perhaps?

I hope the solution is simple too - the ready made track looks so much easier to lay and is so much quicker. I would hate to have to waste the time saved on track laying, on creating compatability.

Answers and or comments on an e-postcard very much appreciated.

Alan

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grovenor-2685
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Re: Using thick and thin sleepers, togetherish

Postby grovenor-2685 » Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:11 pm

The C&L track bases have thin sleepers that match the ply and rivet track, I have used this combination.
If you have purchased the P4 Track Co thick sleepered track then the solution to using the ply and rivet turnouts etc is just to fit card packing under the ply. A bit of experiment should soon establish the required thickness then you can cut card pieces for each section of ply and rivet track.
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Keith
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Flymo748
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Re: Using thick and thin sleepers, togetherish

Postby Flymo748 » Sat Jul 17, 2010 9:35 pm

alaninDM wrote:I am wondering how to use both the thick plastic and thin ply sleepers in a similar section of track and points? I have had a quick sift through the digest sheets but cannot find an obvious reference to how to match the two thicknesses. Is there a relatively simple solution and if so where will I find it? I have just thought that Rice's Finescale track book may have it - which I have. I have not yet found my copy so have not looked. Is it in there perhaps?

I hope the solution is simple too - the ready made track looks so much easier to lay and is so much quicker. I would hate to have to waste the time saved on track laying, on creating compatability.

Answers and or comments on an e-postcard very much appreciated.


Hi Alan,

I don't know the answer, but I'm probably going to give it a try tomorrow to find one :-)

I'll be using the C&L foam underlay, and putting it down using PVA glue, as recommended by Norman Solomon.

If I find the time to get something done, I'll post about the results.

Flymo
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk

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grovenor-2685
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Re: Using thick and thin sleepers, togetherish

Postby grovenor-2685 » Sun Jul 18, 2010 7:25 am

A bit of experiment should soon establish the required thickness then you can cut card pieces for each section of ply and rivet track.

Measuring a couple of samples my calipers tell me you need card 0.4mm thick.
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Keith
Grovenor Sidings

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David Thorpe
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Re: Using thick and thin sleepers, togetherish

Postby David Thorpe » Sun Jul 18, 2010 8:26 am

Is it reasonably easy to colour match ply and plastic? I've always found that stained ply looks like, well, wood, but that it's very hard to achieve a matching effect with plastic.

DT

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Russ Elliott
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Re: Using thick and thin sleepers, togetherish

Postby Russ Elliott » Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:13 pm

grovenor-2685 wrote:Measuring a couple of samples my calipers tell me you need card 0.4mm thick.

I thought P4 Track Co turnouts were about 4.1 to 4.2mm from timber underside to top of rail, and thin ply and rivet works out at about 3.4mm from underside to top of rail, so the difference is more of the order of 0.8mm????

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Flymo748
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Re: Using thick and thin sleepers, togetherish

Postby Flymo748 » Sun Jul 18, 2010 2:07 pm

Russ Elliott wrote:
grovenor-2685 wrote:Measuring a couple of samples my calipers tell me you need card 0.4mm thick.

I thought P4 Track Co turnouts were about 4.1 to 4.2mm from timber underside to top of rail, and thin ply and rivet works out at about 3.4mm from underside to top of rail, so the difference is more of the order of 0.8mm????


I'm in agreement with Russ on this...

When I had the micrometer out last weekend before popping down to Hobbystore for some packing card. I measured the difference at 0.7mm. Unfortunately, they had nothing of a suitable thickness, so I'll be measuring old MRJ envelopes to see if Wild Swan delivers the goods :-)

Flymo
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk

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Russ Elliott
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Re: Using thick and thin sleepers, togetherish

Postby Russ Elliott » Sun Jul 18, 2010 2:27 pm

If I were matching these, I'd certainly start with 0.8mm (1/32") cork packing. Cork sands very easily (far better than card), so a precise height match can be achieved.

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Flymo748
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Re: Using thick and thin sleepers, togetherish

Postby Flymo748 » Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:48 pm

Russ Elliott wrote:If I were matching these, I'd certainly start with 0.8mm (1/32") cork packing. Cork sands very easily (far better than card), so a precise height match can be achieved.


Well, I'm laying the track onto Brian Lewis's finest foam rubber underlay, so the last 0.1 mm is no quite so critical.

However, checking the samples of Exactoscaletrack that I have, it seems that the bullhead point kits have a different overall height than the flat-bottom FastTrack modules that I also have a length of. Curious - or at least frustrating if you are modelling a transition from one to the other.

I've put my micrometer away for the night, but I'll try and measure the respective heights in a couple of days time.

Aligning them using my WSP card base looks doable, and I've started on it but not got as far as I intended due to the distractions of progressing my J15 :-)

Flymo
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk

craig_whilding

Re: Using thick and thin sleepers, togetherish

Postby craig_whilding » Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:18 pm

We've been doing this in Manchester on Slattocks http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index. ... -on-track/ . 0.8mm balsa makes up the difference, test piece shown http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index. ... -birthday/ , lay the weight across the two levels when glueing. Our goods yard is completely in 1/2 height at a lower level and the balsa is sanded down perpendicular to the track direction over the one line of the entry 3-way. We also have the goods loop laid at a lower height though a certain bit of recent sanding has slightly mucked up our transition heights at the moment and needs fixing!

There are ply,copperclad and plastic sleepers on the curve shown in the view http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index. ... gs-honest/ (mainly plastic, copperclad at the board joint with brass chairs and ply for attaching droppers to the rivets!).

Philbax

Re: Using thick and thin sleepers, togetherish

Postby Philbax » Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:07 pm

Hi Guys
Like the solution to use balsap
I have a query if you have reached that stage - how did/are you going to match the ballast height?
I am working with thick sleepers but would like to have ballast up to the top of the sleepers

thanks

Phil

Trevor Grout
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Re: Using thick and thin sleepers, togetherish

Postby Trevor Grout » Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:33 pm

The other alternative could be to use some ??thou plasticard (insert whatever size you require) thus giving the required thickness...
Or am I talking out of my r s again.... :D

Philbax

Re: Using thick and thin sleepers, togetherish

Postby Philbax » Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:07 pm

sorry perhaps I was not clear
If I use thin sleepers on plastic or balsa the level of the ballast could be at the height of the sleepers, however where the sllepers are thick the ballast will be below the top of the sleepers, therefore ther will be an inconsistancy between the two types. This will be very evident where a Thick sleeper turnout is connected to a run of thin sleepered track, my problem at the moment.

So the question is how to increase the thickness of the ballast when thick sleepers are used.

I intend to lay the track and ballst at the same time.

any thoughts?

craig_whilding

Re: Using thick and thin sleepers, togetherish

Postby craig_whilding » Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:15 pm

I don't think its as noticable as you think it'll be, see the 6th picture in this blog post:
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index. ... -progress/

You can add some more ballast to the double height after the lay and ballast if you think its needed to do a slight transition. We used neat pva though and dumped the ballast on top pretty liberally and it seems a decent thickness. Some of the plastic needs a bit of careful painting on ours to blend it into the ply sleepers next to it though.


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