Copper Clad & Vero Pins (also Ply & Rivet) - pin/rivet spacing?

[Brian T]

Hello,

There's a strong possibility that I'll be using the C/Clad & Vero Pin method to construct Turnouts; is there any accepted norm as regards spacing of the Pins (or Rivets - as Ply & Rivet is a similar principle)? By this I mean is it usual to pin/rivet every timber, or perhaps every other timber? Obviously there will be certain areas where pins/rivets at every timber will be justified/required - in particular those around the common crossing.

Thanks
Brian

[David Knight]

Hi Brian,

The usual reference for ply and rivet track is Iain Rice’s book An Approach to Building Finescale Track in 4mm, Wild Swan ISBN 1 874103 00 3. If you can beg, borrow or buy a copy it is well worth it. The catch is in was published in 1991 so copies may be a bit thin on the ground. This method uses a combination of rivets every 5th sleeper with cosmetic plastic chairs filling in between for straight track. Points and crossings get a little more complicated but the book lays it all out. Some will use a similar method but depend only on the chairs held in place with Butanone or a similar solvent and skip the rivets. You might also want to do a search on the Forum for track building.

HTH

David

[Brian T]

Hi David,

Many thanks - I have a copy of that book so I must try referring to it.....
I did try a search on the forum but that didn't help unfortunately; I really don't get on with threading plastic chairs onto rail so that pretty much rules out plastic & ply construction with chairs bonded on. I also like the strength, ease of adjustment and repair that c/clad construction offers. I've built a turnout using Masokits etched chairs - the result are pleasing but it is very time consuming to do.

Cheers,
Brian

[Julian Roberts]

I really don't get on with threading plastic chairs onto rail so that pretty much rules out plastic & ply construction with chairs

Cheers,
Brian

If you want there to be chairs, I'm not sure it's easier to dissect the plastic chairs and stick them on after you've soldered the rails to rivets. And then adjust the ones you've left too proud that foul the flanges!
Next week I'll fix down some plain track and describe my mix of etched chairs with copperclad sleepers, and plastic sleepers&chairs on my Kyle thread; a variation on the theme David suggests above.

[davebradwell]

I recall Mike Clark came up with his etched chairs because of the hassle of fitting cosmetic chairs to ply and rivet track, especially around pointwork where some rivet positions may have strayed a little and half chairs needed to be fitted individually. It will almost certainly give you a finished point more quickly than your pins.

DaveB

[Terry Bendall]

I really don't get on with threading plastic chairs onto rail so that pretty much rules out plastic & ply construction with chairs bonded on.

Fairly obviously it does but it is the methord used for Exactoscale turnouts and for their plain track and is not realy that time consuming.

I also like the strength, ease of adjustment and repair that c/clad construction offers

Certainly the major advanatges of soldered construction be it on copper clad sleepers or rivets and ply sleepers.

This method uses a combination of rivets every 5th sleeper with cosmetic plastic chairs filling in between for straight track.

There is a view that this method can allow the rail to distort since it can move within the functional chairs but is held at every soldered sleeper givinmg enough room for distortion. If the rail is soldered at every sleeper is is held so firmly it cannot move. If funtional chairs are used throughout the rail can move as in the prototype. It is the mixed method that can give rise to the problems but having used that method in the past I did not experince any. However the part of the layout that used that method was scrapped some years ago.

If you want there to be chairs, I'm not sure it's easier to dissect the plastic chairs and stick them on after you've soldered the rails to rivets. And then adjust the ones you've left too proud that foul the flanges!

It is not difficult to do, just time consuming, and almost all the rivets will need trimming where they stick out beyind the foot of the rail. I use a grinding disk in a mini drill for this.

All the various methods have advanatages and disadvantages and in terms of time needed, not a lot of difference. In the end you have to decide what works for you and stick with it. For a project on which I am currebntly working I have used rivetted wooden sleepers with cosmetic chairs to be fitted once i am happy that the track is working as required.

Terry Bendall