Using society "LNER" templates for building GWR turnouts

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kevini

Using society "LNER" templates for building GWR turnouts

Postby kevini » Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:00 pm

I have tried to get into templot but the learning curve is just too high so I was thinking of laying out my new track layout in AnyRail with the C&L library of turnouts and then use the society templates (They state LNER) to piece together the layout and build on bench.

I will be modelling a GWR branchline around 1910-1914 period so rails should be 44ft 6in I think so 6" (2mm?) shorter.....not sure on sleeper spacings/size and other differences between GWR and LNER practice.
I will be using 2 bolt exactoscale chairs but what about the other check chairs.

I appreciate that there may be issues here with sleeper spacing, rail length, etc but can someone summarise these so at least I can get to a good representation without spending 4 years of rivet counting research before doing anything.

Many thanks
Kevin

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Tim V
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Re: Using society "LNER" templates for building GWR turnouts

Postby Tim V » Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:24 pm

Very different track in use on the GW at that time.

To be accurate, you need to look at 'GWR switch and crossing practice' By David J Smith. Published by the Great western Study Group.

My layout Clutton was built on the society templates - showing its age!
Tim V
(Not all railways in Somerset went to Dorset)

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Winander
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Re: Using society "LNER" templates for building GWR turnouts

Postby Winander » Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:39 pm

Tim V wrote:'GWR switch and crossing practice' By David J Smith. Published by the Great western Study Group.


I looked at this as it is often quoted as a reliable source of prototype information. There are various copies in the various outlets, AbeBooks, fleabay and Amazon. They were all considerably more expensive than the source, the GWSG https://gwsg.org.uk/GWSG_Publications.html £14.95 p&p £3.50 for non-members.

Be aware of a caveat in the description
Based on information drawn from official sources it relates primarily to the period from the mid 1930s to the mid 1950s, though reference is also made, where appropriate, to the practice in other periods.


HTH
Richard Hodgson
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Tim V
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Re: Using society "LNER" templates for building GWR turnouts

Postby Tim V » Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:20 pm

It does cover the earlier track.

Loose heel switches with Z chairs and different geometry.

Also in my sources is 'Permanent way institution journal' Vol 42, - a series of lectures by FT Bowler in June and October 1928 which covers the earlier period.

I obtained my copy from a visit to the Patent Office many years ago ...
Tim V
(Not all railways in Somerset went to Dorset)

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grovenor-2685
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Re: Using society "LNER" templates for building GWR turnouts

Postby grovenor-2685 » Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:50 pm

Steve Carter wrote:Hi William

If you are not familiar with Templot then I can recommend this presentation by Phil Chudley - 'Templot for the Totally Confused'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98ruB3GH2Ws

Steve

Since you are asking these questions then I doubt you would be happy using incorrect templates, a little more effort applied to Templot will sort you out.
Regards
Keith
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Winander
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Re: Using society "LNER" templates for building GWR turnouts

Postby Winander » Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:52 pm

I agree with Keith. Templot is a little daunting if you think you need to do an entire trackplan.

Taking it step by step may be the answer. Decide what size turnouts you need and try to configure just one of the turnouts, nothing else. There is plenty of help available here and on the Templot Club that is linked at the bottom of this page. You can then print out just that template, make a copy and base your next one on it.
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Tony Wilkins
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Re: Using society "LNER" templates for building GWR turnouts

Postby Tony Wilkins » Wed Dec 08, 2021 4:52 pm

Hi Kevini.
As has been stated, the geometry of GWR is different to the LNER's track and it will show.
Templot is definitely the way to go, but learn the basics first.
Templot is set to the REA standards as the default because these were the most commonly used, although with minor variations, by three of the big four and BR, the exception being the GWR. The thing with Templot is getting your head around the initial settings and how they affect the resulting trackwork. Knowing what to change and where to find the settings takes a little getting used to, but is worth the effort as you usually only need to make these changes once and then you can use this as a master (Library) template and copy and alter it to suit. It is probable that someone will have already already done this for their own layout and be prepared to post a Box file of a turnout for you to work from.
Regards
Tony.
Inspiration from the past. Dreams for the future.

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Julian Roberts
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Re: Using society "LNER" templates for building GWR turnouts

Postby Julian Roberts » Wed Dec 08, 2021 4:52 pm

grovenor-2685 wrote:
Steve Carter wrote:Hi William

If you are not familiar with Templot then I can recommend this presentation by Phil Chudley - 'Templot for the Totally Confused'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98ruB3GH2Ws

Steve

Since you are asking these questions then I doubt you would be happy using incorrect templates, a little more effort applied to Templot will sort you out.


I wonder whether you, Kevin, feel Templot is more easily accessible after watching that video? (If you have!)

I think it's excellent and found quite a lot instructive even after more than a year of using it. But if I were introducing Templot I wouldn't bother near the beginning changing some of the presentation settings. That's something for well practiced users surely?

There are a couple of simpler ways of doing things - to zoom in on the screen ("trackpad") it's much easier to use the mouse wheel. To change the control template from turnout to plain track or vice versa click on the appropriate box on the 2nd line of boxes. The boxes on that line and the one above take you to the most normally used functions.

At the end he says Templot cannot normally be used without an Internet connection but I have often used it offline. You just fire it up as normal and you get a warning you might not be on the latest version. If you're OK about that you can just go ahead. No need for a secret code, I have found.

Personally I would just open it up, set the gauge, and play around with it. For me the thing I took a while to grasp is that you can only play with one template at a time, and that is called the control template. When you start there's just that control template there. Mostly to get another one you need to save the control template by clicking the box with 2 brown arrows. Now click Shift & Join to move the Control Template away and start playing with it. Your previous template is now green. After you save another template this one will go blue - always the most recently saved template is green.

You can only change a saved template by making it the Control Template. Click on the saved template, it will go white and a menu appears on the left. Select Make the Control and that makes it your Control Template.

When finishing I click the red Cross as normal. You're invited to save all templates. That may be simpler than Phil's method.

There are loads of ways of doing things which is maybe why it's a bit difficult to start with as everyone will tell you their way of working!

The other major thing I learned much too late is that a turnout is most easily adjusted by tapping F5. Templot will automatically give you the appropriate V crossing and switch for your curve and/or geometry.

kevini

Re: Using society "LNER" templates for building GWR turnouts

Postby kevini » Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:30 pm

Yes I have started looking at the videos and the "real" menu seems to have options to set switch settings for "GWR Early hinged" and also "GWR A, B, C' switches. I assume the GWR early hinged may be most applicable for 1910-1914?......or maybe its the other GWR options?
I have bought the GWR book on switch practice but its quite confusing and as someone else mentioned mainly relates to 1930s but with bits on earlier practice.

Perhaps someone has a library box of switch/es they could share for this GWR period to get me going and then I can try it in templot and building one.
I bought a B7 common crossing and blades from C&L so would hope to use those as a test turnout but I just bought the filing jigs so later on I could do different Vs and blades myself.

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Re: Using society "LNER" templates for building GWR turnouts

Postby Phil O » Thu Dec 09, 2021 9:18 am

keveni,

I'm pretty sure the book covers all periods, except the broad gauge. It would be helpful to know what period you're modelling and the type of layout.

When I worked with the PW gang on the ESR, most of the turnouts in the station area are of the curved old loose heel switch type, but the facing turnouts at the ends of the loop are B or C's, I can't remember which.

Cheers

Phil.

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Will L
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Re: Using society "LNER" templates for building GWR turnouts

Postby Will L » Thu Dec 09, 2021 12:36 pm

kevini wrote:... I just bought the filing jigs so later on I could do different Vs and blades myself.


While the filing jigs are very helpful if you are doing a numbers of points, they are certainly not absolutely necessary and there is a lot to be said for doing one or two without so you really understand what your doing. Scalefour Digest 23.6.1 explains just how its done with just a basic tool set.

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grovenor-2685
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Re: Using society "LNER" templates for building GWR turnouts

Postby grovenor-2685 » Thu Dec 09, 2021 10:42 pm

Will L wrote:and there is a lot to be said for doing one or two without so you really understand what your doing. Scalefour Digest 23.6.1 explains just how its done with just a basic tool set.

And here, with more pictures, http://www.norgrove.me.uk/points.html
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Keith
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Phil O
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Re: Using society "LNER" templates for building GWR turnouts

Postby Phil O » Sat Dec 11, 2021 10:35 am

Phil O wrote:keveni,

I'm pretty sure the book covers all periods, except the broad gauge. It would be helpful to know what period you're modelling and the type of layout.

When I worked with the PW gang on the ESR, most of the turnouts in the station area are of the curved old loose heel switch type, but the facing turnouts at the ends of the loop are B or C's, I can't remember which.

Cheers

Phil.


They were GW C switches on 1 in 10 crossings.


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