Railway company track surveys and plans?

Discuss the prototype and how to model it.
User avatar
steamraiser
Posts: 557
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 4:49 pm

Railway company track surveys and plans?

Postby steamraiser » Thu May 27, 2021 12:48 pm

My question is did the railway companies draw or plot layouts of major junctions and any major changes to point and crossing layouts?



The reason for my question is that there was a major change at Bitterley sidings (Freight only line) where ordinary turnouts were replaced by a scissors cross over, I think post nationalisation.

I cannot find any detailed OS maps that show the later layout in on a map.



My understanding is that a major piece of crossing and turnout work would first be assembled away from site. To do this I am assuming there would have to be a site survey followed by a drawn plan showing crossing angles and what switches would be used. This information would be used to assemble the crossing and turnouts away from the actual site before breaking down into sections to be transported.



If above is correct would such records have been kept and where?

What is the chances they have survived?



The line I am researching is the Ludlow to Clee Hill branch which was I believe a GWR & LNWR operation, later to be W.R British Railways.



Gordon A

bécasse
Posts: 374
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:26 am

Re: Railway company track surveys and plans?

Postby bécasse » Thu May 27, 2021 7:44 pm

Trackwork that was only ever going to be used by slow-speed freight trains was often, perhaps usually, assembled from secondhand bits and pieces with any design work being limited to the proverbial back of the ganger's fag packet. PW gangers were surprisingly skilled at this, knowing what was required to fit both space and traffic and making best use of available material. The bodge was often very apparent on the ground, particularly if one looked along the line of a running rail, but it usually worked (four-wheel wagons were very forgiving at slow-speed) and had the great advantage of being cheap, using little new material and no expensive design time.

Trackwork that was going to be used by passenger trains was an entirely different matter, of course.

martin goodall
Posts: 1425
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:20 pm

Re: Railway company track surveys and plans?

Postby martin goodall » Thu May 27, 2021 9:11 pm

When researching Bodmin GWR for the North London Group's layout, we came across point and crossing timbering plans for the station dating from the 1950s in the Divisional Civil Engineer's office at Plymouth (thanks to helpful and friendly staff in that office), but that was roughly 45 years ago, and I don't know whether such records have survived.

They were still kept at that time because the station was still in use for china clay traffic, and so at that time they represented current operational records. I fear that records of that nature may not have been preserved after the line finally closed.

It is possible that drawings of track formations, and also buildings and structures, may still be retained by Network Rail where a line is still open for traffic, but I have no idea whether they would be prepared to provide copies to enthusiasts (as the people at Plymouth did in the 1970s).

petermeyer
Posts: 307
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:06 am

Re: Railway company track surveys and plans?

Postby petermeyer » Sat May 29, 2021 5:22 am

I recall that the L&NWR Society have some of these kind of documents in their archives. Whether they have any for the Clee Hill branch is questionable but it would be worth checking. They do hold some working timetables for the GWR/LNWR Joint Line.

User avatar
45609
Posts: 213
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:28 am

Re: Railway company track surveys and plans?

Postby 45609 » Sat May 29, 2021 8:05 am

Gordon, when Robin was doing some research for Barrow Road he came across something like you describe for modifications to the Tewkesbury loco shed area. It was dated circa 1957. It was found in the Wiltshire Records office, if I recall, that has a lot of archive material from the Swindon drawings office. I’ll ask Robin if he can remember at bit more of the detail

Morgan

User avatar
barrowroad
Posts: 359
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 5:28 pm

Re: Railway company track surveys and plans?

Postby barrowroad » Sat May 29, 2021 9:46 am

Gordon, It's been a while ago now but I obtained a lot of drawings of Barrow Road and Tewkesbury from the Wiltshire and Swindon History Centre in Cocklebury Road, Chippenham.
https://wshc.org.uk/
They do/did have an online search of around 18,000 records associated with the GWR; track plans, drawings of buildings etc. If I remember I typed in Barrow Road and got a series of references ie Inspection Pits.
Once you have found the reference number(s) I telephoned and emailed to arrange a visit. They have a reading room and will let you photograph the documents - from steps if required - but you cannot photocopy.
I was surprised they had Barrow Road and Tewkesbury as they are ex Midland/LMS however the records are ex BR Western Region so you may be lucky with Clee Hill.
You best contact them by email first as a quick search on their website just now failed to reveal anything. However they definitely have all those useful records.

Robin

David Catton
Posts: 112
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:23 pm

Re: Railway company track surveys and plans?

Postby David Catton » Sat May 29, 2021 10:18 am

Way back in the 1970s, BR had offices in Eversholt Street adjacent to Euston Station. As I worked in an office on Euston Road, I was able to access the nether regions of these offices and make the acquaintance of the man who looked after all the microfilm records. He happily let me select drawings in which I expressed interest and printed them out for me on a dyeline printer. I got copies of drawings of buildings in which I was interested but also rating plans of a couple of stations (one attached) and Bank Hall loco shed.

All this came to an end when security measures were introduced in the times of the IRA bombings so I have no idea what happened to this treasure trove of drawings. Hopefully, they went to the NRM . . .

It may be worth trying the "Search Engine" to see if there is anything at York.

David Catton
Posts: 112
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:23 pm

Re: Railway company track surveys and plans?

Postby David Catton » Sat May 29, 2021 10:21 am

Way back in the 1970s, BR had offices in Eversholt Street adjacent to Euston Station. As I worked in an office on Euston Road, I was able to access the nether regions of these offices and make the acquaintance of the man who looked after all the microfilm records. He happily let me select drawings in which I expressed interest and printed them out for me on a dyeline printer. I got copies of drawings of buildings in which I was interested but also rating plans of a couple of stations (one attached) and Bank Hall loco shed.

All this came to an end when security measures were introduced in the times of the IRA bombings so I have no idea what happened to this treasure trove of drawings. Hopefully, they went to the NRM . . .

It may be worth trying the "Search Engine" to see if there is anything at York.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
Hardwicke
Posts: 1522
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2008 10:25 pm

Re: Railway company track surveys and plans?

Postby Hardwicke » Sat May 29, 2021 10:23 am

bécasse wrote:The bodge was often very apparent on the ground, particularly if one looked along the line of a running rail, but it usually worked (four-wheel wagons were very forgiving at slow-speed) and had the great advantage of being cheap, using little new material and no expensive design time.

Trackwork that was going to be used by passenger trains was an entirely different matter, of course.


Though I remember reading that the flat crossing at Retford GNR ECML and MSLR/GC didn't fit when they replaced it in the 50(?)s so they had to hurredly bodge it to fit.
Ordsall Road (BR(E)), Forge Mill Sidings (BR(M)), Kirkcliffe Coking Plant (BR(E)), Swanage (BR (S)) and Heaby (LMS/MR). Acquired Thorneywood (GNR). Still trying to "Keep the Balance".


Return to “Track and Turnouts”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ClaudeBot and 1 guest