Preventing rust on steel rail

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Jeremy Good
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Preventing rust on steel rail

Postby Jeremy Good » Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:56 am

Having laid most of the track on Bodmin I have noticed that some of the steel rail used is beginning to show signs of rust.

In those areas where I have soldered droppers this clearly indicates that I have not been fastidious enough in cleaning up after soldering but this has been dealt with by cleaning off the affected areas with a glass fibre brush. I have also found that some of the areas of plain track are beginning to develop a surface rusting. This appears to be only localised and much of the rail on the layout is unaffected as is the rail stored in the railway room (a dry, insulated loft room). I suspect, therefore, that the instigator of this process is possibly the PVA glue used to fix the track to the cork but I can't be sure.

Having now spent some time cleaning the rails I am now trying to find a method of protecting the cleaned surface to prevent this happening again. Jenolite has been suggested as a possible solution but looking at Roger Sanders' articles (S4News 207/208) he warns that this is corrosive and I am therefore a little concerned about applying this on track made with ply sleepers and Exactoscale chairs whilst in situ. Is this concern justified?

Also having investigated Jenolite they appear to offer a range of rust inhibitors, removers and convertors - any idea which might be appropriate?

If Jenolite is not the answer does anyone have any other suggestions. I did wonder whether applying Jenolite carefully just to the rail head and simply painting the sides of the rail might be an option but this may just be disguising the problem.

Any suggestions from experience would be gratefully received. Thanks.

Jeremy

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grovenor-2685
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Re: Preventing rust on steel rail

Postby grovenor-2685 » Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:20 am

1. Paint the sides
2. Run trains on it.
If you can't do 2 often enough then apply graphite or oil and spread it around by running trains. I have steel rail in use that was laid over 50 years ago and does not get cleaned all that often.
I have seen surface rust in the past which I have attributed to the PVA glue. Usually if I have left the newly laid track covered with weights while the glue sets and not got back to it soon enough. The covers trap the fumes and give time to start corrosion. Removing the weights as soon as the glue is holding lets the fumes dissipate and little or no corrosion is seen.
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Keith
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PhilipT
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Re: Preventing rust on steel rail

Postby PhilipT » Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:44 am

Don't know about modern formulations but the Jenolite of 50 years ago was a phosphoric acid preparation so was much like our soldering fluxes. The main problem I have found with steel and phosphoric acid is that applying the soldering iron results in a jet of hot acid and this seems to cause significant pitting of the steel. Jenolite used cold was a good anti-rust preparation used for car body panels etc.

PVA is far from being inert - in a previous existence I found that using it as a binder in some battery electrodes resulted in more energy being recoverable that could be accounted for by Faraday's law (96,500 coulombs and all that). So it's not surprising that it can cause rusting.

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Will L
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Re: Preventing rust on steel rail

Postby Will L » Thu Mar 04, 2021 12:13 pm

PhilipT wrote:PVA is far from being inert..
Oh yes, as i remember it, PVA produces acetic acid (vinegar) as it cures. As well as a potential cause of rust on steel, it reacts with lead causing it to expand, as people who have set lead blast in PVC inside boilers have found to their cost.

Knutsford East track was set in PVA/Ballast and had no rust issues, I think it was cleaned to remove flux residue, and painted before being laid, as Keith suggests

Jeremy Good
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Re: Preventing rust on steel rail

Postby Jeremy Good » Thu Mar 04, 2021 12:38 pm

Thanks Keith, a very practical and pragmatic solution.

I'm getting to the point where I can run trains more often but in the meantime the paint and oil/graphite solution should help stave off the problems. There are a couple of threads here and on RMWeb about the use of graphite suggesting sources of graphite sticks and if I can't locate any of my grandfather's old builders pencils that my children used for their early attempts at art, I'll acquire one of those sticks. I did wonder about using oil but was a little concerned it might attract dust/dirt if I'm not using the layout enough.

As a follow-up question, does it make any difference if I use enamel or acrylic paints for the rail sides or is it simply the act of covering the steel that prevents further rusting?

I had previously fallen foul of the leaving the weights on the track too long problem with PVA and this time around was careful to avoid it - perhaps on one or two sections I wasn't quick enough! Maybe on the next sections I'll try and use a different adhesive or lay the sleepers first and add the rail later.

Jeremy

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Tim V
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Re: Preventing rust on steel rail

Postby Tim V » Thu Mar 04, 2021 12:41 pm

Bit of a concern. I have track made with steel rail - over 30 years old, abandoned in a garage - no rust.

Technique or storage?
Tim V
(Not all railways in Somerset went to Dorset)

Enigma
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Re: Preventing rust on steel rail

Postby Enigma » Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:22 pm

PVA - Poly Vinyl Acetate - hence the Acetic Acid. My college thesis was based on PVA and its uses - which included making chewing gum! This was slightly over 50 years ago so wether it still is I've no idea.

davebradwell
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Re: Preventing rust on steel rail

Postby davebradwell » Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:17 pm

The same problem occurs with nickel silver rail if you leave the weights on too long - it goes 'orrible. Much of my track is laid using Evo-Stik Timebond which permits the final little kinks to be removed but, of course, you can't ballast at the same time. I'm sure I get worse pick-up on the pva stretches but it's difficult to be sure because some ballast was laid subsequently with pva before I changed to Johnsons Clear. I think pva is best avoided around track.

DaveB

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grovenor-2685
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Re: Preventing rust on steel rail

Postby grovenor-2685 » Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:09 pm

All my track has been laid with PVA, ballasting at the same time. I have not had issues other than the initial when leaving the weights to long, once dry it seems fine so I don't see any need to change. For some time I have used the washable PVA sold for educational purposes, works just the same but its easier to soften and remove if you need to.
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Keith
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davebradwell
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Re: Preventing rust on steel rail

Postby davebradwell » Thu Mar 04, 2021 4:34 pm

Well, I just feel it's there exuding "stuff" which is just slightly oxidising the rail and, anyway, I can get a much better alignment of the rails with Timebond. As WillL says, we used to fill our models with pva and lead at one time until we realised it wasn't a good idea.

In Model Railroader they use "Caulk" but isn't this just another version of pva? Might it remain less active?

It would seem that ventilation should be beneficial so perhaps this explains TimV's experience.

DaveB

David Catton
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Re: Preventing rust on steel rail

Postby David Catton » Thu Mar 04, 2021 4:45 pm

Like this perhaps? <https://www.screwfix.com/p/no-nonsense-decorators-caulk-white-310ml/57568>

I've used plenty to fill cracks in our 250 year old house that has no foundations and continues to move about as the clay underneath swells when wet and dries out in turn.

HTH,

David C

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Hardwicke
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Re: Preventing rust on steel rail

Postby Hardwicke » Mon Mar 15, 2021 11:52 am

I would not use acrylic paint. Firstly it uses water as it's carrier. Then there's the possibility of the acetic acid, though people with a greater understanding could confirm that. Modern household paints that are water soluble are pretty useless especially on metal for similar reasons.
Ordsall Road (BR(E)), Forge Mill Sidings (BR(M)), Kirkcliffe Coking Plant (BR(E)), Swanage (BR (S)) and Heaby (LMS/MR). Acquired Thorneywood (GNR). Still trying to "Keep the Balance".


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