Cast bullhead rail piece

Discuss the prototype and how to model it.
BrockleyAndrew
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Cast bullhead rail piece

Postby BrockleyAndrew » Fri Nov 27, 2020 5:48 pm

Well, my two new files arrived today so I set to work on two pieces of rail to fabricate a section of cast rail with check. I filed down one side flat on one, leaving a short section unfiled at one end for the fishplate. I glued this upside down so as to present an even thinner profile to the checkrail. I used three layers of card to raise the rails to the correct height. Rails were glued to a two-piece laminate, which I then cut in line with the rail. This assembly was then glued onto a larger piece then cut down but wider than rail block to form the base. I filled the end sections a little to see if it helps. I think now it would be better all the way along as you can see down in between the rails more than I thought it would be possible. In the photo it's just plonked on the sleepers. It's sprayed khaki as that was the nearest spray can to hand.

Andrew

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grovenor-2685
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Re: Cast bullhead rail piece

Postby grovenor-2685 » Fri Nov 27, 2020 7:10 pm

What is it meant to be?
AFAIK bullhead track always used fabricated crossings and check rails made from normal rail.
Cast crossings and special work are made to match flat bottom rail, and tramway girder rail.
But maybe you know something I gon't, always nice to learn something new.
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Keith
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BrockleyAndrew
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Re: Cast bullhead rail piece

Postby BrockleyAndrew » Fri Nov 27, 2020 7:24 pm

I'm trying to approximate this sort of thing. My terminology is most likely quite wrong!
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grovenor-2685
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Re: Cast bullhead rail piece

Postby grovenor-2685 » Fri Nov 27, 2020 7:44 pm

Not wrong but rare, even the crossings further from the camera are all built up but the nearest one is certainl made from castings. You will certainly have your work cut out replicating those. Clearly all the castings have substantial flanges cast at the bottom taking up the height usually occupied by the chairs. Its hard to see where the joints are in the 4 foot but I would expect four castings to make up the diamond. We did some like that on DLR but matching FB rail.
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Keith
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Noel
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Re: Cast bullhead rail piece

Postby Noel » Fri Nov 27, 2020 7:45 pm

grovenor-2685 wrote:AFAIK bullhead track always used fabricated crossings and check rails made from normal rail.


The crossings at the East end of Newcastle Central were apparently first replaced in cast manganese steel in NER days, presumably in bullhead, because of the level of wear involved. I don't know about any other locations, but Borough Market Junction would have been a prime candidate if the SR followed suit, I would think.
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Noel

bécasse
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Re: Cast bullhead rail piece

Postby bécasse » Fri Nov 27, 2020 8:15 pm

Noel wrote:
grovenor-2685 wrote:AFAIK bullhead track always used fabricated crossings and check rails made from normal rail.


The crossings at the East end of Newcastle Central were apparently first replaced in cast manganese steel in NER days, presumably in bullhead, because of the level of wear involved. I don't know about any other locations, but Borough Market Junction would have been a prime candidate if the SR followed suit, I would think.


Yes, Borough Market Junction was laid with cast manganese steel crossings, renewed every seven years IIRC, and spares were always held in case the in situ castings got damaged (as happened a few times).

BrockleyAndrew
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Re: Cast bullhead rail piece

Postby BrockleyAndrew » Fri Nov 27, 2020 8:27 pm

Thanks Noel, you win a prize, it is BMJ from Southern Way v13 track relaying in 1944. There is another photo from 1940 showing the cast rail. I'm not sure how early these formations were in place. There is a photo of track re-laying in 1932 in the RAF photographic collection. Is this a cast piece being lifted?
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bécasse
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Re: Cast bullhead rail piece

Postby bécasse » Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:08 pm

The cast manganese steel crossings at Borough Market Junction were, I think, only on the up roads. The photo seems to show the renewal of no.3 points and the crossing of the DL Charing Cross line over the DT Cannon Street line, right outside the box (invisible on the right), as these were always trailed through the wear was less significant and they were made up as ordinary p&c units as the photo shows.

More information on the junction and its signalling can be found on the useful wbsframe website.https://www.wbsframe.mste.co.uk/public/Borough_Market_Junction.html

I suspect that the cast manganese steel crossings were first put in in 1928 when the (then) new Westinghouse frame was installed in the box. The layout had been modified in 1926 when the whole layout at Cannon Street was changed and electric traction introduced, and that probably demonstrated the urgent need for the special harder steel. Incidentally the four tracks round to Cannon Street were at sub-standard centres and it was possible for trains, especially on the Up Local and Down Through, to touch each other, usually just a clash of footboards and, perhaps surprisingly, without causing permanent damage. There have only been three roads there since 1976.

BrockleyAndrew
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Re: Cast bullhead rail piece

Postby BrockleyAndrew » Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:55 pm

Many thanks for the replies. The Bumper Preview issue of Southern Way has an article on the renewal of the double scissors at Lewisham where chaired track in the scissors is replaced with castings in 1948.
Back to BMJ, a 1970s information brochure about the upcoming changes at London Bridge has a photo of Ganger Goble inspecting the track.

BrockleyAndrew
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Re: Cast bullhead rail piece

Postby BrockleyAndrew » Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:56 pm

Photo here, pressed send early
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BrockleyAndrew
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Re: Cast bullhead rail piece

Postby BrockleyAndrew » Sat Nov 28, 2020 8:07 pm

That's fascinating to hear that there were stock clashes in the 4 curves to Cannon St. I've been searching for information on the junction for years and not read that. I assume it's because the viaduct was built for three roads originally but then had to accommodate a fourth when the Borough High St bridge had the extra bridge/track added around the turn of the century. Many thanks again for the replies I've learned again and am always impressed by the amount of knowledge possessed by members here.

Andrew

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Guy Rixon
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Re: Cast bullhead rail piece

Postby Guy Rixon » Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:15 pm

BrockleyAndrew wrote:That's fascinating to hear that there were stock clashes in the 4 curves to Cannon St. I've been searching for information on the junction for years and not read that. I assume it's because the viaduct was built for three roads originally but then had to accommodate a fourth when the Borough High St bridge had the extra bridge/track added around the turn of the century. Many thanks again for the replies I've learned again and am always impressed by the amount of knowledge possessed by members here.

Andrew

The coaches were a lot shorter when the curves were first laid out. Nothing much over 30'. The longer stock would over-sail more on the curves.

BrockleyAndrew
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Re: Cast bullhead rail piece

Postby BrockleyAndrew » Sun Nov 29, 2020 2:05 pm

Thanks Guy. And now of course I remember that they did widen the viaduct on the inside of the curve - you can see it in Borough Market with the extra column on the bridge sections and newer brickwork on the viaduct wall.

Andrew

BrockleyAndrew
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Re: Cast bullhead rail piece

Postby BrockleyAndrew » Sun Nov 29, 2020 7:49 pm

Hello Keith,

Thank you for the information about the 4 piece cast diamonds on DLR. The photo I posted of the ganger checking the rails: it appears to me that the join in the cast pieces in the foreground is on an angle, that is not a square cut - or am I confusing planes in the photograph?

Have just re-read Howard B's trackmaking articles in S news and he says cast rail might be a case for 3d printing so I know that I'm trying a bit of a fudge with basic materials.

The fishplates holding the castings together look pretty solid and unusual.

Thanks for all the replies,

Andrew

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grovenor-2685
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Re: Cast bullhead rail piece

Postby grovenor-2685 » Sun Nov 29, 2020 8:21 pm

You can make out the joints clearly on the pic with the ganger. They are where the checkrail side is widened, Each wide section has a joint at its centre, those joints are at right angles to the rail.
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Keith
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BrockleyAndrew
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Re: Cast bullhead rail piece

Postby BrockleyAndrew » Sun Nov 29, 2020 8:45 pm

Thanks again Keith,

I very much hope I'm not being annoying but when I asked about the planes of observation it was because I thought that the rail join closest to the hand (square on to camera) was on an angle but it might be my inexperienced eye over the complex geometry. I agree that the joins in the receding view appear to be 90 degrees.....just a fault of obsessively gazing at these photographs for detail?

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Andrew

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Re: Cast bullhead rail piece

Postby grovenor-2685 » Sun Nov 29, 2020 11:57 pm

The two joints most clearly visible are in the left hand rail and one right in front of the ganger, both of these the line of the gap is clear on the checkrail and can just be picked up on the running rail. They certainly look to be at right angles to the rails to me. Sometimes its easy to read things into photos that are not really there, the one in front of the ganger could be seen at an angle but I'm sure its just a perspective effect. :)
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Keith
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BrockleyAndrew
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Re: Cast bullhead rail piece

Postby BrockleyAndrew » Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:43 am

Yes, I can't see any reason for an angled joint. Thanks again.

Tony Wilkins
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Re: Cast bullhead rail piece

Postby Tony Wilkins » Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:43 pm

I would agree the joints are a right angles to the rails.
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Tony.
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