Templot online workshop/dabble session

Discuss the prototype and how to model it.
User avatar
Martin Wynne
Posts: 1172
Joined: Mon May 14, 2012 4:27 pm

Re: Templot online workshop/dabble session

Postby Martin Wynne » Sun Mar 07, 2021 12:53 pm

Paul Cram wrote:I was using the link http://templot.com/templot/companion/live_screen.php. There was some buffering but not too bad. I was using Firefox as the browser with an ad blocker.

Thanks Paul.

Maybe the ad blocker is preventing the visitor tracking?

Rather than a blocker, I use Firefox with the tracking protection set to Strict. It doesn't affect that visitor tracking script (but it does remove almost all advertising).

cheers,

Martin.
40+ years developing Templot. Enjoy using Templot? Join Templot Club. Be a Templot supporter.

User avatar
Martin Wynne
Posts: 1172
Joined: Mon May 14, 2012 4:27 pm

Re: Templot online workshop/dabble session

Postby Martin Wynne » Sun Mar 07, 2021 12:57 pm

LesGros wrote:Yes, Frequent buffering for 1 or 2 seconds at intervals of 3 to 12 seconds; observed over about a minute.

Thanks Les, Paul.

That can only be down to the streaming service and nothing to do with me. The test card is a minimal image as you can see, so ought not to cause any buffering even on slow connections.

I will contact the streaming service and see what they say. I suspect the answer will be to pay them more money!

cheers,

Martin.
40+ years developing Templot. Enjoy using Templot? Join Templot Club. Be a Templot supporter.

philchudley
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:36 am

Re: Templot online workshop/dabble session

Postby philchudley » Sun Mar 07, 2021 2:53 pm

I was one of the attendees last night and stayed with you pretty much to the end.

Thanks Martin for hosting this session, and although I have been using Templot for many years, pretty much ever since it was first launched, I leant some very useful tricks to make Templot even more useful and productive.

Much Appreciated

All the best

Phil

User avatar
Martin Wynne
Posts: 1172
Joined: Mon May 14, 2012 4:27 pm

Re: Templot online workshop/dabble session

Postby Martin Wynne » Mon Mar 08, 2021 9:58 am

Hi Phil,

Thanks, I'm glad you found it worth watching.

Technically it was a bit of a failure, with so many reports of buffering and poor streaming. Unlike watching a pre-recorded video, an interruption for buffering makes a nonsense of a live broadcast.

I'm using a cheapo streaming service which worked well last time, but seems to be struggling at present. Unfortunately I can't find a mid-range streaming service, the next step up is broadcast-quality streaming with a price tag to match. It's not worth subscribing to such a service if I do only one live session every 5 months!

But I have now removed the clunky Chatzy chat room and replaced it with a new chat function within Templot Club, see:

https://85a.uk/templot/companion/live_screen.php

I will get the recording posted in a day or two, for those who suffered the buffering. It's quite time-consuming to re-assemble the raw clips, remove the breaks, and then split it up again into meaningful 20-minute-ish sections.

cheers,

Martin.
40+ years developing Templot. Enjoy using Templot? Join Templot Club. Be a Templot supporter.

User avatar
LesGros
Posts: 546
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:05 pm

Re: Templot online workshop/dabble session

Postby LesGros » Mon Mar 08, 2021 10:33 am

Martin,
Thank you, I am sure the recording will be very helpful for me to get back into Templot. :thumb

Best Wishes,
LesG

The man who never made a mistake
never made anything useful

User avatar
Martin Wynne
Posts: 1172
Joined: Mon May 14, 2012 4:27 pm

Re: Templot online workshop/dabble session

Postby Martin Wynne » Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:31 am

I have now discovered that the Twitch web site provides all the streaming functions needed for the live Templot demo sessions, and what's more it is free. :) I wish I had known about it earlier.

To test it out I did a demo session on Saturday, the recording of which is available on Twitch for the next 14 days. It covers making a crossover between non-concentric tracks, and an explanation of the control template and stored background templates.

More info and a link to watch it here:

https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?t ... /post-1034

And also indefinitely at:

https://85a.uk/templot/companion/live_s ... rchive.php

cheers,

Martin.
Last edited by Martin Wynne on Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
40+ years developing Templot. Enjoy using Templot? Join Templot Club. Be a Templot supporter.

User avatar
Winander
Posts: 842
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:19 pm

Re: Templot online workshop/dabble session

Postby Winander » Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:32 pm

Hello Martin,

I suggest you take a quick look at OBS Studio https://obsproject.com which will enable you to stream and save the stream to post elsewhere e.g. youtube. It would be a shame to put all that effort into a demo and loose it after 14 days.

cheers
Richard Hodgson
Organiser Scalefour Virtual Group. Our meeting invitation is here.

User avatar
Martin Wynne
Posts: 1172
Joined: Mon May 14, 2012 4:27 pm

Re: Templot online workshop/dabble session

Postby Martin Wynne » Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:38 pm

Winander wrote:I suggest you take a quick look at OBS Studio https://obsproject.com which will enable you to stream and save the stream to post elsewhere e.g. youtube. It would be a shame to put all that effort into a demo and loose it after 14 days.

Thanks Richard.

I am using OBS and posting the recordings elsewhere, see: https://85a.uk/templot/companion/live_s ... rchive.php

But they are large video files and editing them into sensible chunks is very time-consuming. For long term reference I prefer to make shorter interactive videos, see: https://85a.uk/templot/companion/online_video_list.php

cheers,

Martin.
40+ years developing Templot. Enjoy using Templot? Join Templot Club. Be a Templot supporter.

Bill Newstead
Posts: 40
Joined: Mon May 30, 2016 10:30 pm

Re: Templot online workshop/dabble session

Postby Bill Newstead » Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:23 am

As a Firefox user I downloaded and saved your videos using the Video DownloadHelper(sic) extension.

Bill

User avatar
Winander
Posts: 842
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:19 pm

Re: Templot online workshop/dabble session

Postby Winander » Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:43 pm

Martin Wynne wrote:But they are large video files and editing them into sensible chunks is very time-consuming. For long term reference I prefer to make shorter interactive videos


Martin,

If you have a specific topic, then short files would be good, but if you have a general dabble session, why bother editing the files, players have a fast forward button, and possibly a means of increasing the playback speed? Leave it to the viewer. By taking the time to edit, you are limiting your output :)

Whatever you decide, thanks for doing this, it is very useful.

cheers
Richard Hodgson
Organiser Scalefour Virtual Group. Our meeting invitation is here.

User avatar
Martin Wynne
Posts: 1172
Joined: Mon May 14, 2012 4:27 pm

Re: Templot online workshop/dabble session

Postby Martin Wynne » Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:11 am

Winander wrote:If you have a specific topic, then short files would be good, but if you have a general dabble session, why bother editing the files, players have a fast forward button, and possibly a means of increasing the playback speed? Leave it to the viewer. By taking the time to edit, you are limiting your output :) Whatever you decide, thanks for doing this, it is very useful.

Thanks Richard.

Last Saturday's live session is now in the archive, labelled Demo 001:

https://85a.uk/templot/companion/live_s ... rchive.php

and will remain there indefinitely.

But unlike the first few clips I did, I won't be cleaning up the recordings or adding any title cards, etc. With the size of files involved it just takes too long. They will be raw recordings exactly as broadcast. Several folks have said they prefer them that way. :)

cheers,

Martin.
40+ years developing Templot. Enjoy using Templot? Join Templot Club. Be a Templot supporter.

User avatar
LesGros
Posts: 546
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:05 pm

Re: Templot online workshop/dabble session

Postby LesGros » Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:20 am

Martin,
I watched Demo 001yesterday, in three digestible chunks.
:thumb Clarity of image: excellent.
:thumb Buffering: None.

I concur with the points raised by Winander. It is time consuming to watch an entire unedited broadcast, though having the raw demo available is a good facility for those who want it. The remaining downside is that none of the side chat is visible, so the discussion aspect became a bit disjointed and sometimes hard to follow. Perhaps as the alternative to the horrible time consuming editing process, each demo could be accompanied by an index formed of links to the start of each new subject. A subject title card, if displayed at the start of each new subject, would make it easier to create a set of links; it would also help those viewing the raw files by fast forward, to identify the subjects of current interest.

The normal short, focused, demos are very useful; the are very clear; and one can be selective about which order to view them when a quick refresher is needed.

Thank you for making this available to us.
LesG

The man who never made a mistake
never made anything useful

User avatar
Martin Wynne
Posts: 1172
Joined: Mon May 14, 2012 4:27 pm

Re: Templot online workshop/dabble session

Postby Martin Wynne » Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:49 am

LesGros wrote:A subject title card, if displayed at the start of each new subject, would make it easier to create a set of links; it would also help those viewing the raw files by fast forward, to identify the subjects of current interest. The normal short, focused, demos are very useful; the are very clear; and one can be selective about which order to view them when a quick refresher is needed. Thank you for making this available to us.

Thanks Les.

Either I'm missing the obvious, or you are asking for the impossible.

I have a video file which is 1.4GB and lasts over 2 hours.

I have 3 different video editor programs.

A takes 45 minutes just to open the file. But can save it again in about 5 minutes.

B appears to open it instantly, but takes an hour to save it.

C just crashes when opening such a large file.

To play through it to and fro several times, cut out the rubbish bits, find places to cut it into convenient chunks, add a title card and some basic subtitles to each chunk, save each chunk separately, create a web page to list the chunks, and upload the whole lot to the web site -- is about a day's work. I don't think I have enough lifetime left to do all that every time I record a demo. It would be 10 times faster just to re-record the chunks from scratch afterwards.

What I'm intending to do is

1. upload the raw recording as-is.

2. invite members of the Templot Club forum to suggest helpful notes, such as

"the useful bit about shoving timbers starts at 43 minutes"
"there's a handy trick with the peg at 1 hour 17 minutes"
"at 37 minutes there is a mistake with the ruler measurement"

and so on. Which I will add to the web page, and which will come up in searches. See:

https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?t ... -2021.124/

Which seems to be the practical limit to what I can do. Unless anyone knows otherwise? Everywhere I look I find the same advice -- "editing a video takes 10 times longer than making it".

cheers,

Martin.
40+ years developing Templot. Enjoy using Templot? Join Templot Club. Be a Templot supporter.

User avatar
LesGros
Posts: 546
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:05 pm

Re: Templot online workshop/dabble session

Postby LesGros » Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:46 pm

LesGros wrote:A subject title card, if displayed at the start of each new subject, would make it easier to create a set of links; it would also help those viewing the raw files by fast forward, to identify the subjects of current interest. The normal short, focused, demos are very useful; they are very clear; and one can be selective about which order to view them when a quick refresher is needed. Thank you for making this available to us.

Martin wrote:
Thanks Les.

... Either I'm missing the obvious, or you are asking for the impossible...

Martin,
You have completely misunderstood my suggestion, which was made to avoid the need for any time consuming editing drudgery.

The subject divider cards, as I suggest, would be pre-prepared, and shown as a part of the Broadcast, either as part of the screen share, or maybe in a temporary text box on the Templot canvass for, say, 10 to 15 seconds. Such helpful dividers would thus be captured along with the entire demo broadcast.

The addition of index linking note could then be added to the webpage, as you intend, in response to suggestions by helpful members, or perhaps by yourself subsequently based on what you think best.

Best Wishes,
LesG

The man who never made a mistake
never made anything useful

User avatar
Martin Wynne
Posts: 1172
Joined: Mon May 14, 2012 4:27 pm

Re: Templot online workshop/dabble session

Postby Martin Wynne » Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:07 pm

LesGros wrote:
LesGros wrote:Martin, You have completely misunderstood my suggestion

Hi Les,

Sorry I got the wrong end of the stick.

But you are suggesting that I prepare each demo in advance, and know exactly what I'm going to talk about all the way through. Which in itself would be a lot of work, and defeats the object of being a dabble session in which folks can ask questions on the chat box as we go along. And which could lead almost anywhere.

Pre-prepared demos wouldn't need to be done live, and in effect would be not much different from the existing interactive videos at:

https://85a.uk/templot/companion/online_video_list.php

But we can see how things develop. Just at the moment the sun is shining, so thoughts are moving away from Templot for a while. :)

cheers,

Martin.
40+ years developing Templot. Enjoy using Templot? Join Templot Club. Be a Templot supporter.


Return to “Track and Turnouts”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ClaudeBot and 1 guest