Help Required on Chairs and Track Construction

[stevepenny]

Happy New Year to you all,

Being a 'newbie' to P4 I thought i'd be the first to ask a stupid question in 2010........

Before I begin my model of Inverkeithing in earnest I have decided to create a small cameo of Bishops Bridge Signal Box on the South Devon Railway. I've chosen this as my Father works on this railway and I managed to get some great shots of the box, the lead-off plate, and the track arrangement over the Christmas break. So now to my stupid question(s)......

Am I correct in assuming that I can simply purchase wooden sleepers, plastic chairs and bullhead track and simply 'glue' them together at the correct track gauge?

The second question is which chairs? The prototype has a combination of 2 bolt and 3 bolt chairs; is this the norm, or just a result of limited funds and heritage railways?

Thirdly, is there a template that dictates which chairs should be standard, and which should be slide chairs?

And finally (thank God I hear you cry ), how do I know which template, A4, A5, A6 etc, is the correct one. I understand there is a relationship between the number and the letter that dictates the radius, but can I assume that this is simply a reduction in scale from the prototype?

Thanks for your patience.

Steve Penny

[Russ Elliott]

Am I correct in assuming that I can simply purchase wooden sleepers, plastic chairs and bullhead track and simply 'glue' them together at the correct track gauge?

Yes.

The second question is which chairs? The prototype has a combination of 2 bolt and 3 bolt chairs; is this the norm, or just a result of limited funds and heritage railways?

GWR was 2-bolt, others were 3-bolt, some were even 4-bolt. Heritage railways are generally not fussy, and will use whatever they can get hold of.

Thirdly, is there a template that dictates which chairs should be standard, and which should be slide chairs?

Generally, yes. For bullhead practice for example, an A switch has 5 slide chairs, a B has six, a C has seven.

how do I know which template, A4, A5, A6 etc, is the correct one. I understand there is a relationship between the number and the letter that dictates the radius, but can I assume that this is simply a reduction in scale from the prototype?

Yes. The number is the angle of the vee (1 in n). Lots of useful info on turnout lengths here.

Martin Wynne has some very useful general info on turnouts here and here.

Plus the Scalefour Digest of course!

[Russ Elliott]

Before I begin my model of Inverkeithing in earnest I have decided to create a small cameo of Bishops Bridge Signal Box on the South Devon Railway.

Steve - I have to thank you for drawing my attention to this fascinating (and very modellogenic) place. There's a great set of pics here (having done a quick google). From those pics, the turnout in front of the box looks to have 7 slide chairs, and approx 34 timbers from the toe to the vee. As a rule of thumb, turnout timbers can be taken as 10mm apart in 4mm scale, so I think that turnout looks like it might be a C10.

'Small cameo'? Hmmm...

[grovenor-2685]

'Small cameo'? Hmmm..

Yes, well most of us use selective compression, hence the popularity of B7s where the prototype would mostly be using C9 or bigger.
Regards
Keith

[stevepenny]

'Small cameo'? Hmmm...

Hi Russ,

I'm limiting myself to a 24 inch width for this cameo; very small by the standards that a lot of you guys use . All I want is the turnout, the small bridge over the river and the start of siding to the right of the box; and of course the box itself.

The idea is to re-learn the art of modeling on a small scale...

Unfortunately I don't seem to be able to attach the pictures I took which is a shame as they may be of some help to other forum members.

Thanks for the info regarding the number of chairs and for answering my 'stupid' question in general

Steve

[Terry Bendall]

Hi Steve

I like the idea of your cameo. A pity that it sounds a bit too big for the Armchair Modellers' Challenge since it would be an ideal entry. Of course if you could make it in two sections so that it fits the size conbstrain that would be another story! Anyway, even if you did not want to enter the Challenge and you can made it to Scaleforum I would be very pleased to have it as part of the display of models that are not entered for any competition.

On the track construction, you might like to loook at the products from the P4 Track Co if you have not done so yet. Some ready made track bases although no keys on the chairs, but lose chairs available with keys moulded. In my view, the best thing for track construction and simple turnouts since rivetted sleepers were devised. However sleeper length is 8ft 6inch so no good for pre-grouping trac k but that may not apply to you.

Have fun!

Terry BEndall

[Paul Willis]

On the track construction, you might like to loook at the products from the P4 Track Co if you have not done so yet. Some ready made track bases although no keys on the chairs, but lose chairs available with keys moulded. In my view, the best thing for track construction and simple turnouts since rivetted sleepers were devised. However sleeper length is 8ft 6inch so no good for pre-grouping trac k but that may not apply to you.

Or, to take a different perspective, they may be perfectly good but need cutting down...

I was recently researching one of my local Great Eastern Railway branches and discovered that the track was originally laid in the 19th century with 8ft sleepers. Passed by the Board of Trade and all.

So there may always be an example that disproves the old belief that "trees were cheaper back then"!

HTH
Flymo

[JackBlack]

Am I correct in assuming that I can simply purchase wooden sleepers, plastic chairs and bullhead track and simply 'glue' them together at the correct track gauge?

Having stubbornly stuck to ply/rivet/soldered construction for a while I was finally persuaded to try the method you've described above (by a certain Mr Scannell I think) and I've not really looked back. I use C&L laser-cut sleepers (mainly because they don't need any cleaning up) and Exactoscale plastic chairs, which are great. I have a little jig that allows me to glue one chair to a sleeper in the correct place, and I can do five sleepers at a time. And I have another jig with sleeper spacing for two GWR 44'6" panels. Slide the one-chair sleepers on the first rail, slide the corrected number of chairs on the second rail, use the sleeper jig to space them correctly, then butanone the second rail onto the sleepers using a track gauge.

Points are obviously a bit more complicated, but perfectly doable with a bit of practise. As Russ says, the digest is full of excellent track info...

Cheers, Nick

[LesGros]

I have a little jig that allows me to glue one chair to a sleeper in the correct place, and I can do five sleepers at a time. And I have another jig with sleeper spacing for two GWR 44'6" panels. Slide the one-chair sleepers on the first rail, slide the corrected number of chairs on the second rail, use the sleeper jig to space them correctly, then butanone the second rail onto the sleepers using a track gauge.


Cheers, Nick

Sound like an excellent idea... Any chance that you could post a couple of piccys of your jigs?

regards

[stevepenny]

Hi Steve

I like the idea of your cameo. A pity that it sounds a bit too big for the Armchair Modellers' Challenge since it would be an ideal entry. Of course if you could make it in two sections so that it fits the size conbstrain that would be another story!

Hi Terry,

I've checked the dimensions for the challenge and I think it will fit in nicely. It might look slightly odd in that there will be the stub end of a siding on one side but other than that it should work. My only problem will be getting signal wires and point rodding off of each side of the cameo although a strategically placed 'bush' might do the trick...

I'd best get cracking

I've already drawn the signal box using Siemens Solid Edge Drafting, which might be usefull for other forum members. I just cant seem to attach any images to my posts. Any help with this would be usefull.

Steve

[stevepenny]

I think i've just answered my own question regarding images....





Ignore the old bloke, it's just Dad.........

If these images are too large please let me know. If anybody wants the pictures of the 'Lead-Off' plate and some pointwork and signals please let me know.

Also if anybody has a use for a Plan (front only) of the box drawn in Siemens Solid Edge please let me know. I can either post the image or send you the .dft file.

Regards

[JackBlack]

Hi Steve,

Nice photos!

I built a signal box very similar to this for my Lampeter layout using the Churchward models etched kit as a basis.

http://www.modelexmodelrailways.co.uk

I'm not sure if it's still available, it's the timber box with the hip roof, so you have to scratch build the brick base and you'd also need to fold it inside out as your stairs are on the left (as mine are), but there's lots of really nice etched parts.

DSCF0002.JPG

Les, I'll post a couple of pics of those jigs later, waiting for camera batteries to charge!

Cheers, Nick

[stevepenny]

Hi Steve,

Nice photos!

I built a signal box very similar to this for my Lampeter layout using the Churchward models etched kit as a basis.

http://www.modelexmodelrailways.co.uk

I'm not sure if it's still available, it's the timber box with the hip roof, so you have to scratch build the brick base and you'd also need to fold it inside out as your stairs are on the left (as mine are), but there's lots of really nice etched parts.

Hi Nick,

Very many thanks; i've just ordered a box; it'll save me a lot of time.

Steve

[JackBlack]

Sound like an excellent idea... Any chance that you could post a couple of piccys of your jigs?

They're really simple. The sleeper one just allows you to position the chair in the correct place on the sleeper and glue it, five at a time:

track_sleeper_jig.jpg

This is the panel one, it's basically one panel with some overlap either side, and is just strips of plasticard. You lay the sleepers in between once they've been threaded onto the rail. The sleeper spacing changes as it approaches the join, depending on your prototype of course...

track_panel_jig.jpg

Cheers, Nick

[Terry Bendall]

Steve Penny wrote

Hi Terry,

I've checked the dimensions for the challenge and I think it will fit in nicely. It might look slightly odd in that there will be the stub end of a siding on one side but other than that it should work. My only problem will be getting signal wires and point rodding off of each side of the cameo although a strategically placed 'bush' might do the trick...

I'd best get cracking

Steve

Excellent news Steve. I look forward to receiving your entry form. And whilst we are about it folks there is lots of room for more entries. I have only has one so far but you have until February 28th still

Terry Bendall