Drill for rivets.

Discuss the prototype and how to model it.
jimphillips
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Drill for rivets.

Postby jimphillips » Sun Oct 06, 2019 11:11 am

What drill size/number should be used when drilling point timbers to take society track rivets please?

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grovenor-2685
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Re: Drill for rivets.

Postby grovenor-2685 » Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:54 pm

The rivets have a diameter of 1.1mm and the same goes for the hole punch. A drill should be the same.
Rgds
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Keith
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John Bateson
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Re: Drill for rivets.

Postby John Bateson » Sun Oct 06, 2019 1:09 pm

If the rivets are 1.1 mm (check them first) then I would suggest a slightly smaller drill hole, 1.0 or 1.05 mm.
This way, when you turn over the track base to apply the trusty sprung centre punch, they will not fall out.

I would suggest that drilling 1.1 mm through what is a thin ply will always create a slightly too large hole.
John
Slaving away still on GCR stuff ...
Avoiding the soaps ...
http://www.greatcentralmodels.co.uk

jimphillips
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Re: Drill for rivets.

Postby jimphillips » Sun Oct 06, 2019 1:41 pm

Thanks gentlemen

PhilipT
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Re: Drill for rivets.

Postby PhilipT » Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:50 pm

Getting rivets lined up to pass through the hole is bad enough when drilled 1.1mm, perish the thought of inserting them into a smaller hole.

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steve howe
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Re: Drill for rivets.

Postby steve howe » Sun Oct 06, 2019 3:51 pm

My trick (which I'm sure is not original) is to put small broach or fine needlefile through the hole, into the rivet, position, and press...
seems the most painless way ;)

Steve

PhilipT
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Re: Drill for rivets.

Postby PhilipT » Sun Oct 06, 2019 6:40 pm

Thanks for this excellent yet simple idea.


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James Moorhouse
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Re: Drill for rivets.

Postby James Moorhouse » Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:48 pm

grovenor-2685 wrote:The rivets have a diameter of 1.1mm and the same goes for the hole punch. A drill should be the same.
Rgds

I always thought they were 1.3mm diameter, but Joe Brook Smith's original P4 sleeper drawing actually specifies 1.27mm hole diameter +/- 0.025. Incidentally, this is the same diameter as Songster medium tone gramophone needles, which were used in the original sleeper production punch tool.

Proton
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Re: Drill for rivets.

Postby Proton » Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:59 am

I've made quite a lot of turnouts and crossings to the Brook Smith method but never had to drill sleepers; when does this become necessary?

PBM

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grovenor-2685
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Re: Drill for rivets.

Postby grovenor-2685 » Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:11 am

It is neccessary to drill if you don't have a punch.
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Keith
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David Thorpe
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Re: Drill for rivets.

Postby David Thorpe » Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:07 pm

I've built a lot of trackwork in the past using the ply-and-rivet method without the luxury of a punch. Using my cheap and no doubt not brilliantly accurate digital caliper, the few rivets I have left have a diameter of 1.19mm. Now it so happens that I also have a drill bit that measures 1.19mm (I've no idea what it was sold as) and that produces a neat hole that takes and secures a rivet. If the hole has ever been too small, running the drill through it a few times (I've always used a hand-held swivel pin vice rather than a powered drill) clears any debris and ensures a good fit. To close the rivet I use a large pair of pliers that does a very satisfactory job, crushing the underside of the rivet suitably flush with the sleeper. So I'd suggest that the first thing you do is check what drill bits you have and see if any of them produce a hole suitable to accept and retain a rivet!

More recently I've been using plastic chairs rather than rivets - they look a lot better but I don't think they give such good results when it comes to running and sturdiness.

DT

nberrington
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Re: Drill for rivets.

Postby nberrington » Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:17 pm

On the subject of rivets - a brief side bar: In securing the rivets, does one give the back a sturdy thwack with a hammer (ala Iain Rice), or is the preference a rivet punch? I see a variety of jewellery punches available, but they all seem to be a significant investment..... largely in shipping costs!

Philip Hall
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Re: Drill for rivets.

Postby Philip Hall » Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:47 pm

I wouldn’t thump too hard or you might split the sleeper. A punch tool is more measured, but a gentle tap with a flat faced hammer on a steel block should do just as well.

Philip

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grovenor-2685
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Re: Drill for rivets.

Postby grovenor-2685 » Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:55 pm

Or pliers as David Thorpe mentioned in the post before yours!
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Keith
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David Thorpe
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Re: Drill for rivets.

Postby David Thorpe » Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:24 pm

If you're working in the vicinity or even in the same room as other family members, the contant banging of a hammer descending onto a rivet on a steel block can become somewhat irritating, to say the least. Pliers are really much simpler - it's easier to judge the pressure, no need for the steel block, and it's quiet. Try it and see (but the pliers do need to be a bit heftier than small model making ones!)

DT

Proton
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Re: Drill for rivets.

Postby Proton » Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:49 pm

I must be living in the lap of luxury! I've had a mark 2 punch since I started making track in the fall of '79, and never thought of using anything else. However, it does occur to me that if I had track under construction with rail soldered onto it, that if I had missed a rivet location manual drilling would be necessary.

PBM

jimphillips
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Re: Drill for rivets.

Postby jimphillips » Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:36 pm

Eilleens delivery today, a 1.1mm drill in a pin vice allows a not too tight a fit for the rivet. Not having a punch I find a few taps with a light hammer on the back of my vice sufficient.
Thank you for the benefit of your experience gentlemen.

David Knight
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Re: Drill for rivets.

Postby David Knight » Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:27 pm

nberrington wrote:On the subject of rivets - a brief side bar: In securing the rivets, does one give the back a sturdy thwack with a hammer (ala Iain Rice), or is the preference a rivet punch? I see a variety of jewellery punches available, but they all seem to be a significant investment..... largely in shipping costs!


I follow the gospel according to Rice. I use one of these critters https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/to ... ack-hammer quite light but good enough for rivets and surprisingly useful for other tasks.

Cheers,

David


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