Scalefour Forum

Having decided to adopt ply sleepers for my layout project rather than the plastic ones I have used for my test track I was looking for some guidance on colouring the sleepers.

I've tried a couple of wood stains/dyes but being acrylic rather than spirit based products they don't seem to give the same finish as the older products.

Has anyone found a decent, readily available product for staining the sleepers or are there any alternative methods I should consider?

Thanks

Jeremy

My friend in the borders, building a large EM layout using plastic chairs, is using Walnut sleepers. He tried a lot of different types before making the decision. Bought in long lengths of appropriate cross-section from model boat building suppliers, which he chops on a little chopping tool to length. He found they gave the best colour for his track and ballasting methods.

Minwax Jacobean Oak stain works for me with the society’s ply sleepers. The only catch being I don’t know if you can get Minwax in the UK, that said Mr Rice does mention a “Colron Dark Jacobean Oak”. Incidentally, the new format for the sleepers in laser cut strips makes the job much easier from the bundles of days gone by.

Cheers,

David

David

Thanks. I've been trying the Colron Jacobean Dark Oak but I can only get it as a dye and that doesn't seem to be too effective. I've got another batch soaking overnight and I'll see if that works any better than the previous attempt. I've also got another batch in a Sadolin stain as well. I'm not sure Minwax is available in the UK except via Amazon (delivery in January).

There have been one or two comments about using Indian Ink which I'll try and see how that works out.

Nigel, the walnut sounds like a good idea but I have already got stocks of the plywood sleepers. Maybe for the next layout...

Jeremy

I have never been in favour of wood dyes, as they produce too dark a colour - fine for brand new sleepers newly laid on a main line, but on a branch line something much lighter (basically very light grey, with only the slightest hint of a very light brown).

The best way of reproducing this is by painting the sleepers with enamels (such as Humbrol), suitably thinned with turps and keeping the colour very light.

It is better to err on the side of the colour being too light and also very well thinned. A second application can be made later if this proves to be too light, but wait until its dry, and look at it under your normal layout lighting before you make up your mind.

It is much easier to darken colours that are too light than it is to lighten colours that are too dark.

Colron spirit based dyes work well in my experience. Painted on it doesn't darken the timber too much as the dye soaks in readily. Soaking the sleepers gives a much darker result.

Ronseal black ash fence paint for me. You can vary the intensity between brand new and faded grey.

I've used Colron spirit based dyes, thinned with white spirit to lighten them. I was very pleased with the results at first but I'm now I'm not sure that thinning was a good idea as the colour seems to have faded, perhaps just a bit too much (or there again they might now be just right for my backwater branch line - so much depends on the light in which they're being viewed). But if I hadn't thinned they'd have been too dark.

DT

What's wrong with well-thinned paint? Spirit-based acrylic paint sounds like it would do the same job as the wood dye and can more easily be mixed to vary the colour.

I dyed mine with Colron dark oak ( I think), about 25 years ago, it was quite dark when new, but faded to a lighter grey.

Colour spirit felt pens from Hobbycraft worked well for me.
I used a brown and a silver grey. Neat and no mess.
Coloured the ply sleepers after sticking down but before adding chairs and rail.

Gordon A

Thanks for the various suggestions.

I tried another batch in the Colron last night but it isn't really doing the job. Have subsequently discovered that Colron don't make the spirit based version any more and their current product is Colron Refined Wood Dye which doesn't seem to have the same penetrating qualities.

I have been doing some experiments with Indian inks as well but am beginning to think it'll be better to paint/stain once in situ so I can vary according to where the sleepers sit on the layout. The coloured spirt pens sound like an interesting idea.

Thanks again.

Jeremy

Having been saddened to find Colron spirit wood dye no longer is available, I tried various acrylics and didn't like any.

Liberon spirit dye range is an acceptable replacement. Dunking for a few minutes is enough.

Lots of suggestions here just to add my twopenn'th I use ply sleepers, and most of the prototypes I favour feature old sleepers that have weathered in the elements. I use Indian Ink mixed about 1 : 3 with distilled water and a little isopropyl. Iain Rice describes this in his trackwork book. It dries to a nice silvery grey.

Well I think so anyway!

Steve

I used Sepia Indian Ink and also Wilkinson dark Jacobean Oak wood dye. I settled on the latter as it was quicker. It’s water based and I used to dunk sleepers overnight in a jam jar. You have to clean/wipe each sleeper after you take them out and they take a couple of days to dry out fully. Worked for me on Cheddar.

Jeremy Good wrote:Has anyone found a decent, readily available product for staining the sleepers or are there any alternative methods I should consider?

If waterproof ply, soak in cold tea. If not, rub with a damp used tea bag (or even a new one).

cheers,

Martin.

steamraiser wrote:Colour spirit felt pens from Hobbycraft worked well for me.
I used a brown and a silver grey. Neat and no mess.
Coloured the ply sleepers after sticking down but before adding chairs and rail.

Gordon A

I have found in the past that the ink from colour spirit felt-tip pens can fade badly over time. As a result of this experience, I gave up using them and stuck to enamels instead.

(The application in question was not for colouring sleepers, but colouring the card edges of printed 'enamel' adverts. After a few years, the black had faded away almost completely, and the edges had to be re-touched with Matt black enamel.)

Some years ago, when I did these things commercially, I built a model, for sales purposes, of a small housing development. What I didn't expect was that the property agent put it on display in his front window. After 4-5 months in the sunshine there wasn't a vestige of colour about it -- all a very consistent grey. Most of the paints used were water based. I'm now much more conscious of the risk of paint or other colourants fading in some circumstances,

Allan F

Hi Jeremy,

Many years ago I purchased a litre of Charcoal colour Gold-X Linseed Oil Timber Stain. I have found that for me it gives the right amount of a weathered timber sleeper colour.
As brushes clean up with mineral turpentine, the turps can also be used to thin down the colour of the stain on the sleepers to a lighter faded grey.

Regards
Barry

These days I use a combination of Indian inks and Humbrol matt grey/black enamels.
I believe it is important to consider the combination of the colour of the ballast used and the sleepers as this will have an impact of the perception of the track. Personally I would always advocate the use of light coloured ballast, which can always be toned down, rather than dark, which cannot.

I hope the difference between the 'old' sleepers in the headshunt and those on the 'main' are obvious in the attached pic of my (unfinished) layout.

Richard

Martin Wynne wrote:

Jeremy Good wrote:Has anyone found a decent, readily available product for staining the sleepers or are there any alternative methods I should consider?

If waterproof ply, soak in cold tea. If not, rub with a damp used tea bag (or even a new one).

cheers,

Martin.

I tried that on Saturday evening with a warm bag of PG Tips finest - and,sadly, nothing happened. However, as an prolific tea drinker, I have a plentiful supply of bags so do you have any tips on acheiving success Martin?

Enigma wrote:I tried that on Saturday evening with a warm bag of PG Tips finest - and,sadly, nothing happened. However, as an prolific tea drinker, I have a plentiful supply of bags so do you have any tips on achieving success Martin?

It's a long time since I last used the method. I used to put half a dozen tea bags in a jug, add boiling water, throw in a few hundred sleepers, and leave the whole lot overnight. Repeat with more or fewer tea bags, used or new, to get a collection of sleepers of varying shades.

But you need to test first that your plywood is waterproof for such long exposure (I used to saw my own). Nowadays many folks use limewood or basswood instead of ply, and I don't know how that responds to tea:

https://www.model-dockyard.com/acatalog/Lime.html

cheers,

Martin.

I have been using an old stock of Coltron spirit base wood dye. One part Jacobean dark oak and 2 parts walnut if I remember correctly. It is a long time since I mixed it for Green Street. Rather than dip the sleepers / timbers into a tray for a good soak, after the track was built, I have resorted to applying by brush as the large tray I used has long since vanished. What I do when this has all gone I am not sure. it will be noticed in some of the pictures in my Brimsdown thread that I have missed some of the edges.
Regards
Tony.

I've also used the dyes and washes from AK, which I bought from Hobby Holidays at an exhibition.
http://www.hobbyholidays.co.uk/products.php?cat=135

I've been looking for alternatives to the Colron spirit based wood dyes as I wasn't too sure how much I had left. Having found the tins in the garage, I have more left than I remembered. However, having accumulated a lot of ply sleepers recently (other peoples cast offs at Bring and Buy stalls), I thought I might need some more wood dye.

Colron - seems to have gone down the 100% water based stuff - I tried "old fashioned" hardware shops to see they had any older stock - no luck.
Liberon - most high street decorators/hardware shops only stock the water-based stuff, but the spirit based alternative is available from online decorating warehouses - 9 colours available.
Rustins - like Liberon do both spirit- and water-based material - available in 11 colours direct from the manufacturer and I picked a couple of tins up from Thorns Ironmongers in Norwich yesterday - Christmas present to self.